Minnesota Sports Forum

Hicks123 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Hicks123 wrote:Yeah, I think this is not a big deal.

But I do think the agents stance on Jimmy "not being a recruiter" is absolutely a bunch of garbage. In any field of work, we are all relied upon to become "recruiters" in order to obtain top level talent. In professional sports, this is even more important. Jimmy absolutely has an obligation to pitch and recruit for the team he plays for.....if he wants to enable success for this team. He needs to convince the right players that this team is on its way up.....and work to dispel concerns. His agent is smartly trying to remove any future culpability on his player in relation to roster construction. "This is all their fault....I just play". I just think in today's sports, player relationships have a profound impact to roster construction, and Jimmy being our best player certainly has a responsibility in some form.....especially when it comes to convincing these "min level vets" to come to his club.

Sure. To some extent...

But it can also scream volumes about the organization, too. Sans the players, more specifically Butler in this case... what reason would any top or even middling player look at this organization and be excited to play here?

This is about a lot more than this team and this season. It's about this organization over the past 20+ years. It's literally the worst organization in the NBA. Its closest competition was so atrocious that the league mandated that the owner sell the team.

Point being... sure... put it on the players to sell the franchise to others. That's today's NBA. But... the owner has to do his part to by showing competency beyond turning the lights on in time for the game.

Any guess which team owns the records below? I understand the frustration with this team. I have been watching this team since year 1.....but let's not pretend that all these other organizations are perfect. This isn't that long ago.....and this franchise was considered bottom of the garbage pile bad.

YR W L %
1992-93 34 48 0.415
1993-94 50 32 0.61
1994-95 26 56 0.317
1995-96 36 46 0.439
1996-97 30 52 0.366
1997-98 19 63 0.232
1998-99 21 29 0.42
1999-00 19 63 0.232
2000-01 17 65 0.207
2001-02 21 61 0.256
2002-03 38 44 0.463

2003-04 37 45 0.451
2004-05 34 48 0.415
2005-06 34 48 0.415
2006-07 42 40 0.512

2007-08 48 34 0.585
2008-09 29 53 0.354
2009-10 26 56 0.317
2010-11 36 46 0.439
2011-12 23 43 0.348

Yes....the almighty Warriors. Now considered one of the best franchises in all of sports. Funny...

By no means am I claiming a lot of other organizations are perfect. I'm well aware of the Warriors lengthy playoff absence.

I'm simply stating a pretty reasoned take that the Wolves are arguably the least successful (worst) franchise in NBA history... apologies to Clippers fans who had to endure so much losing for all those seasons. They could very well recapture the top spot if the Wolves can keep this momentum going forward.

Looks like Butler and Thibs are tied at the hip.

It would not surprise me to see 1 of wiggins or KAT or both moved in the off season to bring in more of Thibs type of guys. IMO, Thibs' vision for this team is to build around himself rather than the players.

Hicks123 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Hicks123 wrote:Yeah, I think this is not a big deal.

But I do think the agents stance on Jimmy "not being a recruiter" is absolutely a bunch of garbage. In any field of work, we are all relied upon to become "recruiters" in order to obtain top level talent. In professional sports, this is even more important. Jimmy absolutely has an obligation to pitch and recruit for the team he plays for.....if he wants to enable success for this team. He needs to convince the right players that this team is on its way up.....and work to dispel concerns. His agent is smartly trying to remove any future culpability on his player in relation to roster construction. "This is all their fault....I just play". I just think in today's sports, player relationships have a profound impact to roster construction, and Jimmy being our best player certainly has a responsibility in some form.....especially when it comes to convincing these "min level vets" to come to his club.

Sure. To some extent...

But it can also scream volumes about the organization, too. Sans the players, more specifically Butler in this case... what reason would any top or even middling player look at this organization and be excited to play here?

This is about a lot more than this team and this season. It's about this organization over the past 20+ years. It's literally the worst organization in the NBA. Its closest competition was so atrocious that the league mandated that the owner sell the team.

Point being... sure... put it on the players to sell the franchise to others. That's today's NBA. But... the owner has to do his part to by showing competency beyond turning the lights on in time for the game.

Any guess which team owns the records below? I understand the frustration with this team. I have been watching this team since year 1.....but let's not pretend that all these other organizations are perfect. This isn't that long ago.....and this franchise was considered bottom of the garbage pile bad.

YR W L %
1992-93 34 48 0.415
1993-94 50 32 0.61
1994-95 26 56 0.317
1995-96 36 46 0.439
1996-97 30 52 0.366
1997-98 19 63 0.232
1998-99 21 29 0.42
1999-00 19 63 0.232
2000-01 17 65 0.207
2001-02 21 61 0.256
2002-03 38 44 0.463

2003-04 37 45 0.451
2004-05 34 48 0.415
2005-06 34 48 0.415
2006-07 42 40 0.512

2007-08 48 34 0.585
2008-09 29 53 0.354
2009-10 26 56 0.317
2010-11 36 46 0.439
2011-12 23 43 0.348

Yes....the almighty Warriors. Now considered one of the best franchises in all of sports. Funny...

Calm down. This is a team that had its Bedazzled owner booed relentlessly on the night the retired Mullin's number. The look of mock horror on Jim Peterson's face was priceless.

They did OK, but what if a bunch of Dumbassed GM's (not to mention any names) don't pass on Curry, MYCHAEL THOMPSON'S SON, and Green? What if they don't have the foresight to let Mark Jackson go? And how good is OKC with KD/RW/VO/DS/EK/SA? Or JH instead of RW?

You're right. They were a bad franchise until they weren't. But what day does that happen here? Because if it's soon, I can badmouth Chuck Fletcher until that day comes.

And quite frankly, it starts with Glen. His handling of Wiggins has been comically bad, and his rants are Trump-level unhinged.

Hicks123 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Hicks123 wrote:Yeah, I think this is not a big deal.

But I do think the agents stance on Jimmy "not being a recruiter" is absolutely a bunch of garbage. In any field of work, we are all relied upon to become "recruiters" in order to obtain top level talent. In professional sports, this is even more important. Jimmy absolutely has an obligation to pitch and recruit for the team he plays for.....if he wants to enable success for this team. He needs to convince the right players that this team is on its way up.....and work to dispel concerns. His agent is smartly trying to remove any future culpability on his player in relation to roster construction. "This is all their fault....I just play". I just think in today's sports, player relationships have a profound impact to roster construction, and Jimmy being our best player certainly has a responsibility in some form.....especially when it comes to convincing these "min level vets" to come to his club.

Sure. To some extent...

But it can also scream volumes about the organization, too. Sans the players, more specifically Butler in this case... what reason would any top or even middling player look at this organization and be excited to play here?

This is about a lot more than this team and this season. It's about this organization over the past 20+ years. It's literally the worst organization in the NBA. Its closest competition was so atrocious that the league mandated that the owner sell the team.

Point being... sure... put it on the players to sell the franchise to others. That's today's NBA. But... the owner has to do his part to by showing competency beyond turning the lights on in time for the game.

Any guess which team owns the records below? I understand the frustration with this team. I have been watching this team since year 1.....but let's not pretend that all these other organizations are perfect. This isn't that long ago.....and this franchise was considered bottom of the garbage pile bad.

YR W L %
1992-93 34 48 0.415
1993-94 50 32 0.61
1994-95 26 56 0.317
1995-96 36 46 0.439
1996-97 30 52 0.366
1997-98 19 63 0.232
1998-99 21 29 0.42
1999-00 19 63 0.232
2000-01 17 65 0.207
2001-02 21 61 0.256
2002-03 38 44 0.463

2003-04 37 45 0.451
2004-05 34 48 0.415
2005-06 34 48 0.415
2006-07 42 40 0.512

2007-08 48 34 0.585
2008-09 29 53 0.354
2009-10 26 56 0.317
2010-11 36 46 0.439
2011-12 23 43 0.348

Yes....the almighty Warriors. Now considered one of the best franchises in all of sports. Funny...

Things truly turned around when the Warriors had new ownership.

Non-issue for me. Jimmy Butler tried to get Kyle Lowry to join him in Chicago, and then in Minnesota. Jimmy also tried to "recruit" Kyrie Irving last summer to some extent, though it wasn't a free agent scenario. Players recruit other players to come play with them. It happens all around the league and it's no different with Jimmy. Butler's agent's thoughts on this are pretty ignorant and misleading, plain and simple.

"I'll be talking to a lot of really good players, much better than myself, I will tell you that, and get them here to join what we have," Butler said. "I know that, with the support that I've already felt from this city, they're definitely going to love it. Getting here, with this young core, winning these games, anybody's going to want to be a part of that. Now it's all about getting the right fit."

monsterpile wrote:I don't see any problem with what either person said. It seems like if Lee is annoyed with anything it's with Hartman for framing the question the way he did. Lee saying Jimmy's role isn't recruiting...I agree with Hicks that's kinda BS. Players talk and Glen isn't a complete moron. He knows Jimmy is very popular around the NBA. It's absolutely going to be a factor in trying to get FAs to come here.

I agree completely, Monster. I've come down hard on Taylor in the past for dumb public comments, including his idiotic comment about Garnett quitting on the team years ago. So I opened the link expecting to see something similarly outrageous. What I found was much ado about nothing. Just an agent oddly overracting to perfectly appropriate comments by the Wolves owner.

As for the surgery issue, it was Hartman who framed the question as if Jimmy had a choice between different types of surgery. Glen just answered the question asked. And I thought Glen's answer was perfect, saying he trusts Jimmy and supports him. What the hell is wrong with that??!!

As for Glen's comment that he'd like Jimmy to recruit, Hicks is right. There's nothing remotely inappropriate or impolitic about what Glen said. All Glen said was that "part of the team's attempt to lure free agents to Minnesota this summer would rely on Jimmy Butler's communications with other players." Wow, Glen sure was out of line with that!! Lol. First of all, I can't imagine a softer expression of an expectation that the team's top player will help the team recruit better players. Second, and here's the kicker -- of course top players recruit!!! They do it all the time and they talk about it publicly. In fact, I recall Jimmy talking last summer after the trade about how he'd help get more talent here.

If anyone should be criticized for what they said, it's Butler's agent. He's being way too defensive over innocuous comments by the Wolves owner. And he's not helping his client. You want it be the man, the team's leader? Well then you don't get bent out of shape about an owner saying he thinks your communications with other player will help get other players to come here. But note that it wasn't Butler who responded defensively; it was his agent. If I were Butler, I'd be pissed at my agent if he said those things without my approval.

Camden wrote:Non-issue for me. Jimmy Butler tried to get Kyle Lowry to join him in Chicago, and then in Minnesota. Jimmy also tried to "recruit" Kyrie Irving last summer to some extent, though it wasn't a free agent scenario. Players recruit other players to come play with them. It happens all around the league and it's no different with Jimmy. Butler's agent's thoughts on this are pretty ignorant and misleading, plain and simple.

"I'll be talking to a lot of really good players, much better than myself, I will tell you that, and get them here to join what we have," Butler said. "I know that, with the support that I've already felt from this city, they're definitely going to love it. Getting here, with this young core, winning these games, anybody's going to want to be a part of that. Now it's all about getting the right fit."

Absolutely right, Cam. Thanks for including the quote from Jimmy last summer. That's what I was thinking of, but I was too lazy to go find it. I think some folks on this board haven't read the article. Anyone reading it can see Glen didn't say anything remotely problematic. Jimmy's agent is overracting. I think Crazy-Canuck go it right. What Butler's agent really seemed to be reacting to was what seemed to be Glen's reservations about the job Thibs did this season. Well, if Jimmy wants to defend Glen directly or through his agent, that's fine. Glen has to do what's best for the organization, not what's best for Jimmy.

crazy-canuck wrote:Looks like Butler and Thibs are tied at the hip.

It would not surprise me to see 1 of wiggins or KAT or both moved in the off season to bring in more of Thibs type of guys. IMO, Thibs' vision for this team is to build around himself rather than the players.

I had the same reaction. Butler's agent really seemed to be reacting more to Glen's comments about expectations and his reserved comments on Thibs. I agree that Thibodeau is building the team to fit him rather than the other way around. He said he came here because the Wolves had, in his words, "the best young roster in the NBA." I don't think he'll trade KAT, but I could see him trading Wiggins. On the other hand, he obviously recommended giving Wiggins the max extension since Glen actually seemed relunctant to do it. We'll see what happens.