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Re: Who is MOST to blame for KAT's very poor defense thus far in his career
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:34 pm
by Monster
AbeVigodaLive wrote:monsterpile wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:WolvesFan21 wrote:Just to play devils advocate if KAT were on the Celtics does he still struggle or does he have a Kyrie style jump from great coaching and system?
You have to buy in to the culture.
I've never heard any NBA insider claim Thibs doesn't know his hoops. I'm pretty sure he and his staff have pointed out KAT's mistakes and have given him recommendations toward fixing them. Connecting with a new breed of young superstar player though... that's a different story.
Stevens seems better at reaching young players... or at least a certain kind of young player. But he seems to be a bit of an anomaly with just how successful he's been.
Culture. Yep its a big deal. The jury is out on Thibs. Stevens has been terrific the whole time as a Celtics coach. This year has been even more impressive. Lets keep in mind he came into a franchise that's one of the more storied ones with a POBO thats pretty much considered a genius. The previous coach? Doc Rivers. Compare that to Thibs coming to the Wolves and this is not taking anything away from what Stevens has done. The Wolves been one of the worst franchises the last 13 years maybe the worst and maybe worst in the league since they have been in the league (Abe can outline this all day every day). This team had 3 different coaches in 3 years before him. The POBO Flip who was moving things forward died from cancer. The POBO before him was and is a complete joke. Thibs took over a bunch of young kids and a franchise that hadn't done anything since a no-brainer HOF player named KG was in his prime (who also hates the owner). Could Thibs be building a culture that helps us win? Maybe or maybe he won't but I think it might take more than a year and a half to do it espcailly since the players that may help set the tone in Bulter and Taj have only been here a few months. Just sayin.
Sure. I'm cool with that.
And I think because of the Wolves ineptitude... maybe they were too willing to anoint KAT and Wiggins as superstars (and treated them as such) before they were remotely deserving of such latitude.
Consider: Is there anybody else in the league who has done (proven) less to deserve a max deal than Andrew Wiggins?
You are probably onto something with the anointing. KG seems to have anointed Towns maybe he did that too early. I think also another problem is that these guys do seem like they are pretty good dudes and all about basketball. I don't think either guy has really got how hard it is toe be truly great. Sometimes that happens when you are really talented and even with Wiggins Flaws he has some really amazing gifts.
Provide me with a list of guys with a max contract in the NBA right now and we can probably find 1 or 2 that have proven less than Wiggins although we would have to define the criteria. An argument could be made for Otto Porter but IMO that's splitting hairs depending on what you value. Fortunately for the Wizards he seems to have gotten better this year. That's a big part of those max deals you are paying for a guy to be better than he was when he started.
Re: Who is MOST to blame for KAT's very poor defense thus far in his career
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:41 pm
by AbeVigodaLive
Porter is set to make $106M over 4 years.
Wiggins is set to make $146.5M over 5 years.
As for anointment... I'm sure it comes from above. After all, they were acquired after years of futility searching in vain for "that" guy. Suddenly, the Wolves got lucky. It had two of them.
But the #1 pick doesn't guaranteed anything. Even immense potential doesn't guarantee anything. A lot of people (including me) sort of had the idea that we had scaled the mountain... without ever even looking for a mountain to climb.
Re: Who is MOST to blame for KAT's very poor defense thus far in his career
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:11 pm
by Monster
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Porter is set to make $106M over 4 years.
Wiggins is set to make $146.5M over 5 years.
As for anointment... I'm sure it comes from above. After all, they were acquired after years of futility searching in vain for "that" guy. Suddenly, the Wolves got lucky. It had two of them.
But the #1 pick doesn't guaranteed anything. Even immense potential doesn't guarantee anything. A lot of people (including me) sort of had the idea that we had scaled the mountain... without ever even looking for a mountain to climb.
Max contracts numbers are somewhat relative. Porter's number is less because he signed a year earlier (contract starts this year while Wiggins starts in 2018) and therefore that makes this year less and he also doesn't have 2 additional back end years that are gonna be massive. His 4th year is a player option so...he could maybe get even more that season than Wiggins would if Porter is worth it and someone will pay him.
It's fun to look back sometimes. Remember how when John Wall got that first extension and people said he was so overpaid and would never be worth that contract? He ended up easily being worth that deal. Signing various guys to contracts is always a bit of a gamble. Without digging too much giving a max deal to a guy that averaged over 23 PPG as a 22 year old and improved to a reasonable 3 point shooter doesn't seem too ridiculous. The defense and advanced stats make it more interesting but yeah.
The number 1 pick brings a lot with it. Poor Anthony Bennett...
Re: Who is MOST to blame for KAT's very poor defense thus far in his career
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:59 pm
by KiwiMatt
I have no doubt that KAT will develop into a plus defender. His biggest problem at the moment on that end of the court is his decision making. That will get better with age, experience and coaching. If I was Thibs I would get him to focus purely on positioning - boxing out and getting defensive rebounds. Keeping his arms straight and no biting on pump fakes. Another issue I see is a lack of lower body strength. Once again this will get better with age and a few off seasons in the gym (and on the yoga mat).
Re: Who is MOST to blame for KAT's very poor defense thus far in his career
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:36 pm
by Lipoli390
First of all, KAT has been improving defensively of late. Second, KAT competes and produces both points and rebounds consistently.
Nevertheless, KAT's not a good defender and most of the blame has to be placed on him. But the entire team is bad defensively, and the head coach has to be held accountable to some significant extent. Moreover, you're going to look a lot worse defensively as a big when your perimeter players defend like matadors. Jim Peterson has commented on that a lot, pointing out how easily guards and wings penetrate into the paint on the Wolves perimeter defenders.
Re: Who is MOST to blame for KAT's very poor defense thus far in his career
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:49 pm
by BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]
Oh no, an Anthony Bennett reference. Cam is reading this right now and seething. Is AB on any roster? Is he playing in China with Steph?
Re: Who is MOST to blame for KAT's very poor defense thus far in his career
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:49 pm
by Monster
BizarroJerry wrote:Oh no, an Anthony Bennett reference. Cam is reading this right now and seething. Is AB on any roster? Is he playing in China with Steph?
He is playing for the Suns G-league squad.
Re: Who is MOST to blame for KAT's very poor defense thus far in his career
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:20 am
by thedoper
I'm just going to put it out there. I'm actually to blame for KATs poor D so far. We had a talk and he's ready to do whatever Q says. Onward and upward. Go Wolves.
Re: Who is MOST to blame for KAT's very poor defense thus far in his career
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:50 am
by Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
thedoper wrote:I'm just going to put it out there. I'm actually to blame for KATs poor D so far. We had a talk and he's ready to do whatever Q says. Onward and upward. Go Wolves.
Absolutely!
Re: Who is MOST to blame for KAT's very poor defense thus far in his career
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:06 am
by Logo [enjin:17474297]
Thedoper you need to get on Towns like you did G. Can you image the game he would have? It was nice to see Wiggins have a "CAVS" like game.