Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

crazysauce wrote:Looks like miami is looking to screw wade over. Just wondering if would be any interest in signing him? Think he still has a year or two left on the tires. Also its something a bit different to discuss.

Also on rubio trade talks do u guys think the lakers would go for a rubio for russell swap? maybe toss in shabazz if have too.

I don't see Thibs going for a point guard who doesn't play defense like Russell. Plus Rubio is an established top ten point guard and Russell is all hype and hope at this point, plus unwanted baggage.

Rubio's an established top 10 PG?

Sorry. Probably shouldn't derail the thread like that...

No question unless you are in the Porkchop camp where shooting is the only criteria of worth. I'll even go so far as to say he's in the top 5 point guards his age and younger.

Abe, last year http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2015/09/15/nba-point-guards-john-wall-damian-lillard-kyrie-irving-eric-bledsoe-ricky-rubio/72104658/USA Today listed the top 5 point guards 25 and under and Ricky made the list. Only Kyrie Irving is younger than Ricky.

Ok Abe. Ricky is an established PG. You'd have to agree with that, right? And Russell's not. I think that was the real point of TeamRicky's post. And I'd hope you'd agree Rubio's at least 15th among the League's 30 starting PGs, right? I think that puts him well above Russell, don't you?

Would I trade Ricky for Russell? No way. Dunn for Russell? More tempting, but still no. But it all depends on how much value you attach to Russell.

TeamRicky wrote:Abe, last year http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2015/09/15/nba-point-guards-john-wall-damian-lillard-kyrie-irving-eric-bledsoe-ricky-rubio/72104658/USA Today listed the top 5 point guards 25 and under and Ricky made the list. Only Kyrie Irving is younger than Ricky.

Let me know when NBA players are kicked out of the league at the age of 25.

Otherwise... please don't move the goal posts.



[Note: It can be argued Ricky Rubio is a top 10 PG. Most people outside this forum would challenge that though. Again, sorry for the derailing. It's a pretty minor quibble. My bad.]

I'll believe Wade leaves Miami when I see it. Until then I am still skeptical. If he does he will have plenty of options for varying degrees of money and winning situations.

Crazysauce posed two questions. I'm definitely a no on trading for Wade. I'm also a no on trading Rubio for Russell, but probably a yes on trading Dunn for Russell. Russell was a higher pick, had a more impressive freshman year than Dunn had senior year, and had a reasonably effective rookie year...so we know that he will likely be a pretty good pro. in contrast, we don't know yet if Dunn will improve his A:TO ratio enough to become a good PG, or improve his shooting enough to become a good SG. On the other hand, I can see Russell being effective at both guard positions, and being part of a really interesting rotation with Ricky and Zach.

I only say "probably" on the Dunn for Russell deal because Dunn will likely be a much better defender. But since Russell projects to be the much better distributor and shooter, I probably make the deal.

crazysauce wrote:An interesting tidbit for you jason, wade has never been the most paid guy on miamis roster. He took less many years to help miami out. Now at this stage they want to throw him aside like trash for whiteside. He has been very loyal to miami. I think miami owes that to him, and i rarely say that.

He took less money so the guys he wanted to play with would sign there. I have yet to hear anything about Dwayne Wade that rises to the level of "Screwed Over".

MIA has 5 guys signed at $52m, and one of those is Bosh, and they don't get any salary (cap?) relief for him until Halloween 2017. So they have to sign TEN guys with the remaining $42m, and those 10 guys have to be exciting enough that their fickle fan base will still go to the games and not hang out at the beach.

And once again, you said "Screw Over". I don't know what Gumdrop Forest you live in, but I would gladly be screwed over like Dwayne Wade any day. And once again, all he has to do is go play somewhere else. The end.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:Abe, last year http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2015/09/15/nba-point-guards-john-wall-damian-lillard-kyrie-irving-eric-bledsoe-ricky-rubio/72104658/USA Today listed the top 5 point guards 25 and under and Ricky made the list. Only Kyrie Irving is younger than Ricky.

Let me know when NBA players are kicked out of the league at the age of 25.

Otherwise... please don't move the goal posts.



[Note: It can be argued Ricky Rubio is a top 10 PG. Most people outside this forum would challenge that though. Again, sorry for the derailing. It's a pretty minor quibble. My bad.]

I realize that, but I am pointing out that Ricky is relatively young in terms of quality point guards in the league. Its a factor in his favor. The other factor that doesn't get mentioned a lot is his cap friendly contract. His shooting efficiency is really the only subpar part of his game (and hopefully it will improve), his age, contract, defense, passing and turnovers are all very good plus being a likeable guy and good teammate doesn't hurt.

TeamRicky wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:Abe, last year http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2015/09/15/nba-point-guards-john-wall-damian-lillard-kyrie-irving-eric-bledsoe-ricky-rubio/72104658/USA Today listed the top 5 point guards 25 and under and Ricky made the list. Only Kyrie Irving is younger than Ricky.

Let me know when NBA players are kicked out of the league at the age of 25.

Otherwise... please don't move the goal posts.



[Note: It can be argued Ricky Rubio is a top 10 PG. Most people outside this forum would challenge that though. Again, sorry for the derailing. It's a pretty minor quibble. My bad.]

I realize that, but I am pointing out that Ricky is relatively young in terms of quality point guards in the league. Its a factor in his favor. The other factor that doesn't get mentioned a lot is his cap friendly contract. His shooting efficiency is really the only subpar part of his game (and hopefully it will improve), his age, contract, defense, passing and turnovers are all very good plus being a likeable guy and good teammate doesn't hurt.

But that shooting efficiency thing is REALLY big. I think it has improved the past season or so, but at one point he had the 3rd worse shooting percentage of anyone who played 5k minutes since 1960.

Another thing to remember is that he turned pro at 14, so if a U.S. player turned pro at 19, he would have 6 years experience at age 25. Blonde Ricky has ELEVEN.

{Sidenote: Wow. 14. I think the best 14 y/o I ever saw live was Sam Jacobson. I never thought for a minute he belonged in the NBA at 14, and evidently at 22 according to Phil Jackson. But who knows, maybe he could have played in the league that Blonde Ricky played in when he was 14.}

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:Abe, last year http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2015/09/15/nba-point-guards-john-wall-damian-lillard-kyrie-irving-eric-bledsoe-ricky-rubio/72104658/USA Today listed the top 5 point guards 25 and under and Ricky made the list. Only Kyrie Irving is younger than Ricky.

Let me know when NBA players are kicked out of the league at the age of 25.

Otherwise... please don't move the goal posts.



[Note: It can be argued Ricky Rubio is a top 10 PG. Most people outside this forum would challenge that though. Again, sorry for the derailing. It's a pretty minor quibble. My bad.]

I realize that, but I am pointing out that Ricky is relatively young in terms of quality point guards in the league. Its a factor in his favor. The other factor that doesn't get mentioned a lot is his cap friendly contract. His shooting efficiency is really the only subpar part of his game (and hopefully it will improve), his age, contract, defense, passing and turnovers are all very good plus being a likeable guy and good teammate doesn't hurt.

But that shooting efficiency thing is REALLY big. I think it has improved the past season or so, but at one point he had the 3rd worse shooting percentage of anyone who played 5k minutes since 1960.

Another thing to remember is that he turned pro at 14, so if a U.S. player turned pro at 19, he would have 6 years experience at age 25. Blonde Ricky has ELEVEN.

{Sidenote: Wow. 14. I think the best 14 y/o I ever saw live was Sam Jacobson. I never thought for a minute he belonged in the NBA at 14, and evidently at 22 according to Phil Jackson. But who knows, maybe he could have played in the league that Blonde Ricky played in when he was 14.}

I'm cool with the overall Rubio package.

That being said, I think it's a bit dangerous to say "it's only one thing" he is subpar at... when as Jason notes it's a really really big thing. Skills aren't all given equal treatment. For example, rebounding from a PG is not as important as shooting. And what kind of shooting? Three point shooting? Free throw shooting? Finishing at the rim (and getting there)?

There are just so many variables in play... with each system/coach/franchise weighing the importance of each differently. But we have to acknowledge shooting is pretty important for everybody...