Minnesota Sports Forum

Mikkeman wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:That is fascinating. I guess there should no longer be any doubt about this organizations willingness to move Rubio.

I actually love that lineup. Either Butler or Zach could bring the ball up court. It would give us great athleticism and versatility. The more I think about it, the more I like it.

I would have liked that lineup too. Even tough it wouldn't have traditional point, I think that lineup would have still been OK even against full court defense because both Zach and Butler can bring the ball up court. I think Butler would have been good enough for running half court offense. Second half last season when he was playing more like point for Bulls, he had better than 3 assists/TO ratio that would be fine even for point guards and is better than what LeBron for example has ever had.

Defensively they could have matched nicely against any team. Lavine would have taken the worst offensive player among opponent guards and small forward unless they have really big SF.

Yeah, it's an intriguing lineup. It would be a potentially brilliant play by Thibs because it addresses some of the concerns previously expressed about Butler:

1. The "lead dog" issue - As full-time PG, getting others involved is in the job description. He'd be able to still be a lead dog in the sense he would quarterback the offense, but getting KAT, Wiggins, and LaVine shots would be a mandate from the coach. He'd need to embrace this role and only play hero ball when the right match-up presents itself and the offense stagnates. PPG would go down, but APG would go up.

2. The lack of wing 3-point shooting issue - This lineup keeps LaVine as the starting SG and he is the high-volume 3-point shooter and floor spacer. Meanwhile, even though he isn't a dead eye shooter, Butler is still an upgrade over Rubio in this department

3. Defensive versatility and offensive mismatches - Rubio is a great defensive PG, but Butler is more versatile because he can guard all three perimeter positions. He can also better take advantage of mis-matches when a little guard or big man is switched onto him.

I think the biggest concern for me is whether he truly can run an offense. He certainly doesn't have the advanced pick and roll skills or open court floor vision of Rubio, or most other PGs for that matter. I even think there are a few other SGs with better floor vision and passing skills: Manu, Harden, and Wade for example.

But still....a Butler-LaVine-Wiggins starting perimeter trio has a lot to offer while also mitigating some of the earlier concerns voiced about a potential Butler trade.

monsterpile wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Getting Butler while hanging on to Zach? Sign me up.

Yes Rubio and #5 to get Butler is a no brainier. Just get a PG that can play some solid D and hit a 3 that's about all you need with Wiggins Butler and Lavine. That trade was never going to happen obviously.

These talks aren't completely dead yet. Don't be surprised if something still happens with the Bulls.

Talks are over. The Wolves are not trading Dunn. And there's no Butler trade without Dunn as part of the deal. So it's time to move on.

lipoli390 wrote:Talks are over. The Wolves are not trading Dunn. And there's no Butler trade without Dunn as part of the deal. So it's time to move on.

It seems like it, but interesting to speculate on the rationale for the trade in the first place. I believe that when #5 and Rubio was first offered, Thibs and Layden just assumed that Dunn would be taken #3 by Boston and unavailable to them. But once he landed in their laps, all bets were off.

lipoli390 wrote:Talks are over. The Wolves are not trading Dunn. And there's no Butler trade without Dunn as part of the deal. So it's time to move on.

I don't believe that to be true. Those talks can start at any time. Especially as free agency begins to shake out.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Talks are over. The Wolves are not trading Dunn. And there's no Butler trade without Dunn as part of the deal. So it's time to move on.

I don't believe that to be true. Those talks can start at any time. Especially as free agency begins to shake out.

I just think it's remarkable that with all the animosity between the two sides (and as recent as the breakup was) that they're even willing to "talk."

IF Ainge wants him, then BOS will outbid MIN, because they have a lot more to offer.

Jimmy Butler isn't a point guard - straight up - analytics bear that out. He is a shooting guard with some point guard skills, and he's effective in the PnR,

Chicago might try to make him their point guard of the future - but we don't need a 2 learning to play the 1 (we tried that very recently), and if there is a position with this young squad where we need experience, it is PG.

If we could have gotten Butler for any combination of Lavine/Dunn/ and players not named Rubio/Wiggins/KAT, I would have been satisfied. But we can't experiment at the PG and I don't think that Thib's was planning on playing him at PG.

Q12543 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Talks are over. The Wolves are not trading Dunn. And there's no Butler trade without Dunn as part of the deal. So it's time to move on.

It seems like it, but interesting to speculate on the rationale for the trade in the first place. I believe that when #5 and Rubio was first offered, Thibs and Layden just assumed that Dunn would be taken #3 by Boston and unavailable to them. But once he landed in their laps, all bets were off.

That's my sense too. Once Dunn fell into our lap, I don't think Thibs and Scott had much interest in talking with the Bulls or anyone else about swapping the rights to Dunn plus some other important player for Butler or any other player.

Only way it ever was happening is if we included LaVine and I don't want to see that happen. If they asked for Dunn, Shabazz, and Tyus. I would do it in a second.