Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:It's funny how Tyus Jones has gone completely missing from all the chatter about Kris Dunn. It's also a little ironic that the folks claiming Rubio "isn't a winner" don't mention nary a word about Tyus Jones and his body of work in one year at Duke versus Dunn's multiple years at Providence, Jim Souhan included. Isn't Tyus Jones the very definition of a winner?

I was for drafting Dunn, but before we crown him the next Gary Payton or Russell Westbrook, perhaps we should see if he can first beat outplay our 2nd string PG, much less be an upgrade over Ricky Rubio.

One was a top 5 overall pick, the other was picked earlier than i think he would have been if not for the hometown aspect. Jones also played for one of the greatest college basketball coaches of all time, and had two top 10 picks on his team in Winslow and Okafor, who have proven to be real NBA players and 2 of the better players of that draft. Dunn has so much more potential given his athleticism and body type. I'd be shocked if he wasn't our 2nd PG by day one, but i'm not at all worried that this will happen.

Solid and interesting write up about Tyus.

http://www.canishoopus.com/2016/5/6/11601406/a-few-thoughts-on-tyus-jones

monsterpile wrote:Solid and interesting write up about Tyus.

http://www.canishoopus.com/2016/5/6/11601406/a-few-thoughts-on-tyus-jones

" His biggest weaknesses are his size, lack of athleticism, and speed, and all of those factors combine to cause his trouble on defense; this was evident in an early March game against the San Antonio Spurs as point guards Andre Miller and Patty Mills blew past him on multiple occasions.

Jones will have to rely on his basketball smarts to make up for his deficiencies on the defensive end going forward. Jones had a defensive rating of 111 and a defensive box plus/minus of -2.0, both of which are pretty terrible"

If Andre Miller at 400 years old is blowing by you, you're in trouble.

"Jones displayed the ability to hit the three during his only year at Duke, where he shot 37.9 percent; however, that consistency didn't translate to this season. After starting a blistering 13 for 26, Jones converted only three of his final 27 attempts to finish the season with a woeful 30.2% from three."

We have nothing to go off to say Tyus will be a good NBA 3 point shooter. His lack of athleticism and size likely hurts him getting shots off when you combine his average release time.

The guy has vision, but i highly doubt we would have drafted Tyus if he wasn't a hometown kid. He has excellent vision on offense and can score, but he's atrocious on defense.

TheFuture wrote:

Q12543 wrote:It's funny how Tyus Jones has gone completely missing from all the chatter about Kris Dunn. It's also a little ironic that the folks claiming Rubio "isn't a winner" don't mention nary a word about Tyus Jones and his body of work in one year at Duke versus Dunn's multiple years at Providence, Jim Souhan included. Isn't Tyus Jones the very definition of a winner?

I was for drafting Dunn, but before we crown him the next Gary Payton or Russell Westbrook, perhaps we should see if he can first beat outplay our 2nd string PG, much less be an upgrade over Ricky Rubio.

One was a top 5 overall pick, the other was picked earlier than i think he would have been if not for the hometown aspect. Jones also played for one of the greatest college basketball coaches of all time, and had two top 10 picks on his team in Winslow and Okafor, who have proven to be real NBA players and 2 of the better players of that draft. Dunn has so much more potential given his athleticism and body type. I'd be shocked if he wasn't our 2nd PG by day one, but i'm not at all worried that this will happen.

I'm generally a defense over offense guy, future, so I'm hoping that Dunn is our 2nd PG by Day 1. But I think there are some apples and oranges in your post. Yes, Kris was drafted much higher than Tyus, but he was drafted as a 22-year-old man coming off his senior season as opposed to a 19-year-old kid coming off his freshman year...Kris never would have been considered as a draft pick after his freshman year, Despite his perceived lack of athleticism, Tyus ranked as the 7th best player in the country coming out of high school, while Dunn was ranked 16th. Dunn has become a much better basketball player over the past three years. Is it unrealistic to assume Tyus will also improve a lot by the time he is 22?

I think the main point of this thread is we are lucky to have three young PGs who bring different skills to the job, but who all have the potential to help this team. I'm looking forward to seeing how the competition makes them all better.

longstrangetrip wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Q12543 wrote:It's funny how Tyus Jones has gone completely missing from all the chatter about Kris Dunn. It's also a little ironic that the folks claiming Rubio "isn't a winner" don't mention nary a word about Tyus Jones and his body of work in one year at Duke versus Dunn's multiple years at Providence, Jim Souhan included. Isn't Tyus Jones the very definition of a winner?

I was for drafting Dunn, but before we crown him the next Gary Payton or Russell Westbrook, perhaps we should see if he can first beat outplay our 2nd string PG, much less be an upgrade over Ricky Rubio.

One was a top 5 overall pick, the other was picked earlier than i think he would have been if not for the hometown aspect. Jones also played for one of the greatest college basketball coaches of all time, and had two top 10 picks on his team in Winslow and Okafor, who have proven to be real NBA players and 2 of the better players of that draft. Dunn has so much more potential given his athleticism and body type. I'd be shocked if he wasn't our 2nd PG by day one, but i'm not at all worried that this will happen.

I'm generally a defense over offense guy, future, so I'm hoping that Dunn is our 2nd PG by Day 1. But I think there are some apples and oranges in your post. Yes, Kris was drafted much higher than Tyus, but he was drafted as a 22-year-old man coming off his senior season as opposed to a 19-year-old kid coming off his freshman year...Kris never would have been considered as a draft pick after his freshman year, Despite his perceived lack of athleticism, Tyus ranked as the 7th best player in the country coming out of high school, while Dunn was ranked 16th. Dunn has become a much better basketball player over the past three years. Is it unrealistic to assume Tyus will also improve a lot by the time he is 22?

I think the main point of this thread is we are lucky to have three young PGs who bring different skills to the job, but who all have the potential to help this team. I'm looking forward to seeing how the competition makes them all better.

So we generally take players higher when they are younger, yet we use age against a player who was still picked high while being older? That's not consistent.
You say he would never have been picked as a freshman despite his athleticism. I can say he wouldve been picked based on his athleticism,size, and age, but neither matter.

Dunn is coming into the NBA with a physical skill set superior to probably half of the PGs in the NBA. Tyus will always be near the very bottom in physical skill set, there is no upward trajectory for him there. The difference in their potential couldn't be more extreme.

Flip traded up to get Tyus because he won a national championship and was a hometown kid. Flip was trying to rebuild a culture here, get fans in seats, etc. Look at bringing back KG, same kind of thing (KG also brought the famous mentoring). I think it's fair to say that Tyus would have been a 2nd round pick if it wasn't for these reasons.

I'm not concerned with how they ranked coming out of high school. Do you consider the same when you talk about Hield, Murray? Butler, Leonard, Thompson, etc.? People also do not consider the coaching/training players are receiving and the team around them. How much more did Tyus benefit by being a member of Duke? How many times have we seen a Duke player fail in the NBA? Can't we attribute a lot of the college success of Duke players to the greatness of Coach K?

I do believe Tyus can be a good backup PG in the league, but that's his ceiling in my opinion. On the other hand, Dunn's floor is a good backup PG in the NBA with a ceiling that goes to at least starting caliber. I'm not sure why this is much of a discussion.

Future, The point of my post wasn't to suggest that Tyus Jones has more upside than Dunn. Of course Dunn has a much higher ceiling.

I had two main points:

1) That "being a winner" is often a term thrown around to either bolster or knock down a point guard. In Rubio's case, him not leading the Timberwolves to more wins is often used as a reason as to why he's an inadequate PG, whereas a guy like Tyus Jones has been lauded for being a winner. So for folks who believe that winning is the best way to measure a PG's impact, where does that leave Kris Dunn as compared to Tyus Jones? I actually agree with you - team mates matter, system matters, coaches matter, etc.

2) The rookie learning curve can be brutal, even for players that ultimately become very good. There is absolutely no guarantee that Dunn is a better NBA PG next season than even Tyus Jones, much less Ricky Rubio. Two or three years from now? I certainly hope he's surpassed Tyus. Again, I agree that he has the far higher ceiling.

"If Andre Miller at 400 years old is blowing by you, you're in trouble."

There were a lot of PGs last year that are in trouble then.