Minnesota Sports Forum

TRKO wrote:I voted for quite a few of them surprisingly.

Yeah, I did too...all of them except the Noel, Faried and Suns trades. The ones that I voted for that were really a coin toss were the 2 Butler trades and the Denver trade for 15 and 19...I could go either way on those three trades. The Denver trade for 7 and 19 is unbalanced on all the value charts and would never happen, but I'd love it. I also make the trade for Russell, although I think it would be the Lakers sweetening that deal with a pick, and not the Wolves.

longstrangetrip wrote:

TRKO wrote:I voted for quite a few of them surprisingly.

Yeah, I did too...all of them except the Noel, Faried and Suns trades. The ones that I voted for that were really a coin toss were the 2 Butler trades and the Denver trade for 15 and 19...I could go either way on those three trades. The Denver trade for 7 and 19 is unbalanced on all the value charts and would never happen, but I'd love it. I also make the trade for Russell, although I think it would be the Lakers sweetening that deal with a pick, and not the Wolves.

I'm not sure how much more sweet we could expect that Russell deal to get. It's better than just #5 for Russell since they take Payne's contract off our hands. If Russell's value is really lower than that ouch.

#5 and Wig for Butler is the silliest of the trades.

#5 and Lavine for Butler - No
#5 and Wiggins for Butler - No
#5, Gorgui, and Bazz for Noel - No. Way too much for Noel.
#5 and Gorgui for Faried and #15 - No. #5 for Faried i would, but Gorgui > #15 for me.
#5 and Payne for Russell - No, even though i'd love to get rid of Payne.
#5 for #15 and #19 - No. Value at #5 > Value from #15 and #19
#5 for #7 and #19 - Easy Yes
#5 for #13 and #28 - No
None of the above - Yes

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

TRKO wrote:I voted for quite a few of them surprisingly.

Yeah, I did too...all of them except the Noel, Faried and Suns trades. The ones that I voted for that were really a coin toss were the 2 Butler trades and the Denver trade for 15 and 19...I could go either way on those three trades. The Denver trade for 7 and 19 is unbalanced on all the value charts and would never happen, but I'd love it. I also make the trade for Russell, although I think it would be the Lakers sweetening that deal with a pick, and not the Wolves.

I'm not sure how much more sweet we could expect that Russell deal to get. It's better than just #5 for Russell since they take Payne's contract off our hands. If Russell's value is really lower than that ouch.

I'm in the minority here, but I'm not giving up on Payne. We have had so much "let's see what Thibs can do with this guy" talk here, and Payne deserves the same discussion. He's long and athletic, consistently plays hard and has at least an average shooting touch for a big man. He frustrates us with his out of control play, but that wasn't his MO at MSU...could coaching have anything to do with it? Plus his contract is only I more year at $2 million, so LA isn't doing us any favors there.

I laid out my thoughts about why LA is desparate to unload Russell in the other thread, but I'll go a little further (in a perhaps inappropriate way). A high percentage of NBA players are cheating on their wives, and many of the wives naively think their husband is the exception. Not protecting your brothers in their infidelity is just about the worst thing you can do in the NBA code, and even if Russell is being honest about this being a prank gone bad, his teammates aren't buying it. I have to believe the Lakers are trying to find someone to help them out, and KAT's friendship with Russell makes us a good trading option. But I think the Lakers are desperate enough to throw some picks in also in order to take care of this locker room issue.

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

TRKO wrote:I voted for quite a few of them surprisingly.

Yeah, I did too...all of them except the Noel, Faried and Suns trades. The ones that I voted for that were really a coin toss were the 2 Butler trades and the Denver trade for 15 and 19...I could go either way on those three trades. The Denver trade for 7 and 19 is unbalanced on all the value charts and would never happen, but I'd love it. I also make the trade for Russell, although I think it would be the Lakers sweetening that deal with a pick, and not the Wolves.

I'm not sure how much more sweet we could expect that Russell deal to get. It's better than just #5 for Russell since they take Payne's contract off our hands. If Russell's value is really lower than that ouch.

I'm in the minority here, but I'm not giving up on Payne. We have had so much "let's see what Thibs can do with this guy" talk here, and Payne deserves the same discussion. He's long and athletic, consistently plays hard and has at least an average shooting touch for a big man. He frustrates us with his out of control play, but that wasn't his MO at MSU...could coaching have anything to do with it? Plus his contract is only I more year at $2 million, so LA isn't doing us any favors there.

I laid out my thoughts about why LA is desparate to unload Russell in the other thread, but I'll go a little further (in a perhaps inappropriate way). A high percentage of NBA players are cheating on their wives, and many of the wives naively think their husband is the exception. Not protecting your brothers in their infidelity is just about the worst thing you can do in the NBA code, and even if Russell is being honest about this being a prank gone bad, his teammates aren't buying it. I have to believe the Lakers are trying to find someone to help them out, and KAT's friendship with Russell makes us a good trading option. But I think the Lakers are desperate enough to throw some picks in also in order to take care of this locker room issue.

KAT's relationship with him does make it a valid discussion, but i don't exactly understand the value you're giving Russell. Are you saying you think we can get him without giving up #5, and they add picks on top of it? Or are you saying we give up #5 and they give up Russell and future picks?

I must have not seen the talk about KAT's and Russell's relationship on here. If true, I'd give up #5 for Russell in a heartbeat. Russell would be a top 5 pick in this draft, i have just been put off by his relationship with teammates in LA. If that is less of an issue here in Minnesota, then #5 for Russell is a no-brainer because you know you're getting a 20 year old who can play in the league. On the other hand, if you're saying that Russell can be had for something like Payne, then no chance from the Lakers. He may be a distraction, but not enough of one to trade for no value. They'd get rid of Young before dumping Russell.

TheFuture wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

TRKO wrote:I voted for quite a few of them surprisingly.

Yeah, I did too...all of them except the Noel, Faried and Suns trades. The ones that I voted for that were really a coin toss were the 2 Butler trades and the Denver trade for 15 and 19...I could go either way on those three trades. The Denver trade for 7 and 19 is unbalanced on all the value charts and would never happen, but I'd love it. I also make the trade for Russell, although I think it would be the Lakers sweetening that deal with a pick, and not the Wolves.

I'm not sure how much more sweet we could expect that Russell deal to get. It's better than just #5 for Russell since they take Payne's contract off our hands. If Russell's value is really lower than that ouch.

I'm in the minority here, but I'm not giving up on Payne. We have had so much "let's see what Thibs can do with this guy" talk here, and Payne deserves the same discussion. He's long and athletic, consistently plays hard and has at least an average shooting touch for a big man. He frustrates us with his out of control play, but that wasn't his MO at MSU...could coaching have anything to do with it? Plus his contract is only I more year at $2 million, so LA isn't doing us any favors there.

I laid out my thoughts about why LA is desparate to unload Russell in the other thread, but I'll go a little further (in a perhaps inappropriate way). A high percentage of NBA players are cheating on their wives, and many of the wives naively think their husband is the exception. Not protecting your brothers in their infidelity is just about the worst thing you can do in the NBA code, and even if Russell is being honest about this being a prank gone bad, his teammates aren't buying it. I have to believe the Lakers are trying to find someone to help them out, and KAT's friendship with Russell makes us a good trading option. But I think the Lakers are desperate enough to throw some picks in also in order to take care of this locker room issue.

KAT's relationship with him does make it a valid discussion, but i don't exactly understand the value you're giving Russell. Are you saying you think we can get him without giving up #5, and they add picks on top of it? Or are you saying we give up #5 and they give up Russell and future picks?

I must have not seen the talk about KAT's and Russell's relationship on here. If true, I'd give up #5 for Russell in a heartbeat. Russell would be a top 5 pick in this draft, i have just been put off by his relationship with teammates in LA. If that is less of an issue here in Minnesota, then #5 for Russell is a no-brainer because you know you're getting a 20 year old who can play in the league. On the other hand, if you're saying that Russell can be had for something like Payne, then no chance from the Lakers. He may be a distraction, but not enough of one to trade for no value. They'd get rid of Young before dumping Russell.

There's a good discussion about this in the dedicated Russell thread, future, but I'll repeat my thoughts here. Russell was the 2nd pick in last year's draft and had a decent, but not spectacular, rookie year. So I would say that a straight-up Russell for #5 trade is a fair assessment of his current value.

But the Young incident changes the landscape, because it makes LA a motivated seller with few partners who are both interested and have assets that they might like. That's why I think Thibs has to ask for more than just Russell in exchange for #5. I would start with LA's 2016 and 2017 second round picks plus Russell, but be willing to give in on the 2017 pick.

As for the KAT/Russell relationship, a couple of us linked an article in the Russell thread that goes into detail about it. They have been friends and competitors since high school, and are practically inseparable this summer. KAT calls him one of the best people he knows...and most of us here put a lot of weight in KAT's opinion about character. I think KAT will soon be the leader of this team (if he isn't already), and his endorsement of a guy like Russell would go a long way toward his teammates accepting him. I think the Three Amigos (KAT, Wig and Zach) could quickly become the Four Amigos...and wouldn't that be fun!

The KAT - Russell relationship is meaningless to me. Based on what I've heard / read about Russell, KAT isn't the best judge of character. And even if Russell is the greatest person in the league, so what? I mean, how does that advance our situation? One thing the Wolves have today is good - great chemistry, and at the end of the day it led to 29 wins. I have a hard time believing Russell is this great humanitarian, statesman, friend, and colleague. But regardless it's not a good idea to base a trade on it. Evaluate the potential trade by how it changes us on the court, not whether KAT and Russell are bros.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:The KAT - Russell relationship is meaningless to me. Based on what I've heard / read about Russell, KAT isn't the best judge of character. And even if Russell is the greatest person in the league, so what? I mean, how does that advance our situation? One thing the Wolves have today is good - great chemistry, and at the end of the day it led to 29 wins. I have a hard time believing Russell is this great humanitarian, statesman, friend, and colleague. But regardless it's not a good idea to base a trade on it. Evaluate the potential trade by how it changes us on the court, not whether KAT and Russell are bros.

Agreed. Talent trumps good feeling or supposed "chemistry". Just ask the Cavs this season, or Lakers with Kobe and Shaq. Both those teams saw a ton of turmoil, and both won championships. I always feel like these "chemistry" things are overblown.

Hicks123 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:The KAT - Russell relationship is meaningless to me. Based on what I've heard / read about Russell, KAT isn't the best judge of character. And even if Russell is the greatest person in the league, so what? I mean, how does that advance our situation? One thing the Wolves have today is good - great chemistry, and at the end of the day it led to 29 wins. I have a hard time believing Russell is this great humanitarian, statesman, friend, and colleague. But regardless it's not a good idea to base a trade on it. Evaluate the potential trade by how it changes us on the court, not whether KAT and Russell are bros.

Agreed. Talent trumps good feeling or supposed "chemistry". Just ask the Cavs this season, or Lakers with Kobe and Shaq. Both those teams saw a ton of turmoil, and both won championships. I always feel like these "chemistry" things are overblown.

I'll jump on the anti-Russell movement too. I get tired of the buddy culture in this league. Who cares. I'm sure they all have plenty of friends. And frankly I don't think he'd be better than who we get at 5. I thought being the #2 pick was high for him last year. If the Lakers are desperate and offer another pick, then of course you consider it. But straight up for the 5, i wouldn't.