Minnesota Sports Forum

Lol, comeback! That's a good one. Meaningless stats in garbage time.

Weird game vs. NY.

As it was going on, I wasn't impressed with Rubio. After all, the team looked out of sorts and he's the guy who "makes everybody else better." He showed some grit defensively a couple times later to spark a mini-run that felt futile even as it was happening. But then I heard he had 11 assists and I was surprised. Did the Wolves hire the old Jazz stat guy from the 80s?

That game sort of encapsulates the Ricky Rubio Wolves Experience, doesn't it?

Those 16 assists and only 1 TO are fantastic. Yet his team was never really in the game and they lost to a mediocre team pretty badly.

Abe - Ricky was +3. Two of our five starters, Prince and Gorgui, were -18 and -23 respectively. Prince played 21 minutes and took only 2 shots, making neither of them. Gorgui was 1-6. Zach was 7-14, but. He missed all 5 of his threes. We lost by 8 points. This was a winnable game. Rubio, Towns and Wiggins did not have great games, but none of those three is the reason we lost. Towns did what he is supposed to do -- scoring and rebounding. Wiggins did what he does -- scoring. And Rubio did what he's supposed to do -- setting guys up, protecting the ball and creating turnovers.

Duke13 wrote:Lol, comeback! That's a good one. Meaningless stats in garbage time.

Duke13 wrote:Lol, comeback! That's a good one. Meaningless stats in garbage time.

Lol. You should start a new stat line called MSP -- meaningless stats per game. I didn't realize that Rubio's 3 steals and 16 assists all came in garbage time. And apparently his 1 turnover must have come when the game was on the line such that he was protecting the ball only in garbage time. Ricky seemed to be his best when he was sparking the Wolves to their best run, pulling to within 4 in the 3rd quarter. But maybe it was my imagination. Maybe I wasn't at the game at all. :)

Duke13 wrote:I didn't say one thing about him being a poor shooter.

Well you should have! :). You said Ricky couldn't get his shot off in the 1st. Sounded like a criticism of his shooting. Actually he had ample opportunities to shoot, but he didn't because he can't. That's what drives me nuts about Ricky. He gets lots of looks, but passes them up because he has no confidence in his shot. Very frustrating.

lipoli390 wrote:Abe - Ricky was +3. Two of our five starters, Prince and Gorgui, were -18 and -23 respectively. Prince played 21 minutes and took only 2 shots, making neither of them. Gorgui was 1-6. Zach was 7-14, but. He missed all 5 of his threes. We lost by 8 points. This was a winnable game. Rubio, Towns and Wiggins did not have great games, but none of those three is the reason we lost. Towns did what he is supposed to do -- scoring and rebounding. Wiggins did what he does -- scoring. And Rubio did what he's supposed to do -- setting guys up, protecting the ball and creating turnovers.

You realize I wasn't ripping Rubio, right?

I was just pointing out that it's one of those games where his supporters can point to his success. And his detractors could point to a game where the team wasn't even close to winning.

And I'll simply point out again... just how bad are his Timberwolves teammates? Remember, we asked ourselves the same question when Kevin Love was among the league leaders in Win Shares... and that was with Ricky Rubio on the team, too. (although he missed about 1/3 of each of two of those seasons with injuries.)

If people think Rubio is legit and near elite, ok, no problem. But we can't have it both ways. If the team is still on pace for nearly 60 losses... that means the other guys suck balls. Does Towns suck? No. So... ok... Wiggins? Well, not really. How about Dieng? Not completely. Well, then LaVine, definitely right? Well, he has more and more positive moments. Then, certainly Muhammad? Some say no and that he deserves more minutes and could become a starter in this league. That leaves the Wolves with the worst bench in the NBA. Again. And it would mark the (xth) straight year with that honor.

That's simply too many decent to good players on one team to be 17 - 40 or whatever they are. And it can't all be Sam Mitchell's fault (even if the Wolves have arguably the worst coaching staff in the league).

lipoli390 wrote:

Duke13 wrote:Lol, comeback! That's a good one. Meaningless stats in garbage time.

Duke13 wrote:Lol, comeback! That's a good one. Meaningless stats in garbage time.

Lol. You should start a new stat line called MSP -- meaningless stats per game. I didn't realize that Rubio's 3 steals and 16 assists all came in garbage time. And apparently his 1 turnover must have come when the game was on the line such that he was protecting the ball only in garbage time. Ricky seemed to be his best when he was sparking the Wolves to their best run, pulling to within 4 in the 3rd quarter. But maybe it was my imagination. Maybe I wasn't at the game at all. :)

Speaking of meaningless stats.

How many people believe in the legendary adage "Good stats on a bad team"...?

Shareef Abdur-Rahim remains president of the club.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Abe - Ricky was +3. Two of our five starters, Prince and Gorgui, were -18 and -23 respectively. Prince played 21 minutes and took only 2 shots, making neither of them. Gorgui was 1-6. Zach was 7-14, but. He missed all 5 of his threes. We lost by 8 points. This was a winnable game. Rubio, Towns and Wiggins did not have great games, but none of those three is the reason we lost. Towns did what he is supposed to do -- scoring and rebounding. Wiggins did what he does -- scoring. And Rubio did what he's supposed to do -- setting guys up, protecting the ball and creating turnovers.

You realize I wasn't ripping Rubio, right?

I was just pointing out that it's one of those games where his supporters can point to his success. And his detractors could point to a game where the team wasn't even close to winning.

And I'll simply point out again... just how bad are his Timberwolves teammates? Remember, we asked ourselves the same question when Kevin Love was among the league leaders in Win Shares... and that was with Ricky Rubio on the team, too. (although he missed about 1/3 of each of two of those seasons with injuries.)

If people think Rubio is legit and near elite, ok, no problem. But we can't have it both ways. If the team is still on pace for nearly 60 losses... that means the other guys suck balls. Does Towns suck? No. So... ok... Wiggins? Well, not really. How about Dieng? Not completely. Well, then LaVine, definitely right? Well, he has more and more positive moments. Then, certainly Muhammad? Some say no and that he deserves more minutes and could become a starter in this league. That leaves the Wolves with the worst bench in the NBA. Again. And it would mark the (xth) straight year with that honor.

That's simply too many decent to good players on one team to be 17 - 40 or whatever they are. And it can't all be Sam Mitchell's fault (even if the Wolves have arguably the worst coaching staff in the league).

Yes Abe, they really are that bad. Potential does not equal current results. So while some here may be offended when I say things like Wiggins is an average-ish starting SG with major gaps in his game or LaVine is still a well below average contributor (especially at PG) or that KAT still hasn't learned the little things defensively, that doesn't detract from any of their future potential and the hope we've invested in them.

Look at New Orleans. They have the best PF in the game and very solid PG in Holiday, yet they won't make the playoffs for the 3rd time in 4 years. Or how about Sacramento? They have Demarcus Cousins and have yet to put together a winning record with him. And the thing is, I'm not even putting Rubio in the same class as Davis and Cousins. They are clearly better players, yet even they can't get their teams to play .500 ball.

Rubio deserves his "fair share" of the blame for not being the type of superstar that can take matters into his own hands and win games for us by himself. He definitely needs very good team mates - and not just one or two. That's the NBA these days....it takes a village!

Rubio was on the court when we got blown out and basically lost the game in the first quarter. It's not like he has been a beacon of light and everyone else played poorly in spite of his stellar play. Advanced stats can be great tools to evaluate a lot of different aspects of the game, but again, don't have that be the only lens you rely on to make your judgments.

Again, we don't have enough players that are considered productive veterans. We have Rubio and Dieng and that's largely it. That is not going to get you a winning record in the NBA. We'll either take our lumps for two more years waiting for all the young talent to be veterans or surround these guys with legitimate NBA players as soon as this off-season. That's on management.

Edit: It's a shame we traded a 27-year old Thad Young for a 39-year old Kevin Garnett when we very likely could have had both this year, especially with our PF position being as shitty as it has been. Ahh, well, thank goodness we had those KG memories at the end of last year. So totally worth it...