Offseason....what if?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I'm not sure our existing culture and team hierarchy is established enough yet to handle a Cousins. Talented, but volatile types tend to do best when integrated into a squad that has a very strong culture and leadership structure.

So, no thanks to Cousins. I think he could disrupt what is still a young and forming team culture that seems to still be trying to find its way.

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

I understand the concern with Cousins. I in no way give him a free pass, but that organization hasn't done anyone any favors. He will always be a mercurial guy (if I had to guess), but he hasn't done anything yet to make me write him off as potentially a key and dominant player for an organization.

And funny enough, I have the same negative feelings about Wiggins...but for different reasons. He is one of the most frustrating players for me to watch. What I see is a guy with all the talent and athleticism in the world....but is completely unwilling to utilize his gifts. With his physical attributes and skillset, he should be Paul George on steroids...but instead, he is simply comfortable scoring at a moderate level while contributing little else. 20+ games with 2 or fewer rebounds...32 games with zero or 1 assist....not acceptable for a guy with his size and athleticism that plays as many minutes and touches the ball as often as Wiggins. Cousins on the other hand, I never question if he is competing to his potential. He will make some mind-numbing mistakes on the floor at times, but I will take that in the spirit of competitive fire.

Just preference for me. And I will also say that I obviously value top tier talent more than most (which is what I see in Cousins). I don't see Wiggins as a top-tier guy, thus the discrepancy in value. Also, I don't see the Wolves getting 1 or 2 this year. My guess is 4-5, where I don't see a can't miss guy. I see depth and role players for this specific team at that spot (with exception of maybe Poetl).

I will also add that one of the reasons I bring up Cousins is that I feel he is legitimately attainable. This differs immensely from other stars who I would prefer, but know that their teams would never deal them (i.e. Davis).

[Carlos Danger]

I understand the concern with Cousins. I in no way give him a free pass, but that organization hasn't done anyone any favors. He will always be a mercurial guy (if I had to guess), but he hasn't done anything yet to make me write him off as potentially a key and dominant player for an organization.

And funny enough, I have the same negative feelings about Wiggins...but for different reasons. He is one of the most frustrating players for me to watch. What I see is a guy with all the talent and athleticism in the world....but is completely unwilling to utilize his gifts. With his physical attributes and skillset, he should be Paul George on steroids...but instead, he is simply comfortable scoring at a moderate level while contributing little else. 20+ games with 2 or fewer rebounds...32 games with zero or 1 assist....not acceptable for a guy with his size and athleticism that plays as many minutes and touches the ball as often as Wiggins. Cousins on the other hand, I never question if he is competing to his potential. He will make some mind-numbing mistakes on the floor at times, but I will take that in the spirit of competitive fire.

Just preference for me. And I will also say that I obviously value top tier talent more than most (which is what I see in Cousins). I don't see Wiggins as a top-tier guy, thus the discrepancy in value. Also, I don't see the Wolves getting 1 or 2 this year. My guess is 4-5, where I don't see a can't miss guy. I see depth and role players for this specific team at that spot (with exception of maybe Poetl).

I will also add that one of the reasons I bring up Cousins is that I feel he is legitimately attainable. This differs immensely from other stars who I would prefer, but know that their teams would never deal them (i.e. Davis).

I think this is where we have to exercise some patience. You are comparing Cousins at age 25 to Wiggins at age 20. Cousins didn't become an All-Star until his 5th year in the NBA/Age 24. Right now Wiggins is scoring 20+ a game which puts him about a top 20 scorer at age 20. If he improves each year (like Cousins did), who knows how good he'll be at age 25? Because our other core pieces (LaVine and Towns) are also 20, it might make sense to keep them together until their prime/mid twenties. We might strike gold.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I understand the concern with Cousins. I in no way give him a free pass, but that organization hasn't done anyone any favors. He will always be a mercurial guy (if I had to guess), but he hasn't done anything yet to make me write him off as potentially a key and dominant player for an organization.

And funny enough, I have the same negative feelings about Wiggins...but for different reasons. He is one of the most frustrating players for me to watch. What I see is a guy with all the talent and athleticism in the world....but is completely unwilling to utilize his gifts. With his physical attributes and skillset, he should be Paul George on steroids...but instead, he is simply comfortable scoring at a moderate level while contributing little else. 20+ games with 2 or fewer rebounds...32 games with zero or 1 assist....not acceptable for a guy with his size and athleticism that plays as many minutes and touches the ball as often as Wiggins. Cousins on the other hand, I never question if he is competing to his potential. He will make some mind-numbing mistakes on the floor at times, but I will take that in the spirit of competitive fire.

Just preference for me. And I will also say that I obviously value top tier talent more than most (which is what I see in Cousins). I don't see Wiggins as a top-tier guy, thus the discrepancy in value. Also, I don't see the Wolves getting 1 or 2 this year. My guess is 4-5, where I don't see a can't miss guy. I see depth and role players for this specific team at that spot (with exception of maybe Poetl).

I will also add that one of the reasons I bring up Cousins is that I feel he is legitimately attainable. This differs immensely from other stars who I would prefer, but know that their teams would never deal them (i.e. Davis).

I think this is where we have to exercise some patience. You are comparing Cousins at age 25 to Wiggins at age 20. Cousins didn't become an All-Star until his 5th year in the NBA/Age 24. Right now Wiggins is scoring 20+ a game which puts him about a top 20 scorer at age 20. If he improves each year (like Cousins did), who knows how good he'll be at age 25? Because our other core pieces (LaVine and Towns) are also 20, it might make sense to keep them together until their prime/mid twenties. We might strike gold.

Ehh, you're not really selling the truth about Cousins. He was All-Star worthy his sophomore season (age 21) and every year after that. Been in the league six years and has had a PER above 20.00 for five of them. Let's not downplay Cousins dominant, star level ability for the sake of the argument.

If Wiggins had Cousins' aggressive, I-can-score-at-will mentality, I wouldn't trade him for anyone.

[Coolbreeze44]

No

[Carlos Danger]

Ehh, you're not really selling the truth about Cousins. He was All-Star worthy his sophomore season (age 21) and every year after that. Been in the league six years and has had a PER above 20.00 for five of them. Let's not downplay Cousins dominant, star level ability for the sake of the argument.

If Wiggins had Cousins' aggressive, I-can-score-at-will mentality, I wouldn't trade him for anyone.

I think you are overstating for effect. Cousins teams have never won 30 games in a season. He put up nice stats. But so has Wiggins. Neither were/are All Star worthy their first couple years. But the larger point I was making was that if you look at Cousins stats (per game and advanced) you can see steady improvement each year for 5 years. Wiggins has also improved from year one to year two. Therefore, if you are considering swapping a young player, you need to consider projections - not just current. I think some are a little too quick to consider dealing our young guys. Granted, sometimes improvements never come (we've seen it many times). But personally I'd err on the side of caution when dealing such young talented guys. The last thing this Franchise needs is to deal away a young guy who ends up becoming a great player for some other team.

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

Ehh, you're not really selling the truth about Cousins. He was All-Star worthy his sophomore season (age 21) and every year after that. Been in the league six years and has had a PER above 20.00 for five of them. Let's not downplay Cousins dominant, star level ability for the sake of the argument.

If Wiggins had Cousins' aggressive, I-can-score-at-will mentality, I wouldn't trade him for anyone.

I think you are overstating for effect. Cousins teams have never won 30 games in a season. He put up nice stats. But so has Wiggins. Neither were/are All Star worthy their first couple years. But the larger point I was making was that if you look at Cousins stats (per game and advanced) you can see steady improvement each year for 5 years. Wiggins has also improved from year one to year two. Therefore, if you are considering swapping a young player, you need to consider projections - not just current. I think some are a little too quick to consider dealing our young guys. Granted, sometimes improvements never come (we've seen it many times). But personally I'd err on the side of caution when dealing such young talented guys. The last thing this Franchise needs is to deal away a young guy who ends up becoming a great player for some other team.

What has Wiggins done better this year than last? While I think he exceeded my expectations last year, he is flatline to worse this season. I see absolutely no statistical improvement and don't notice anything he does better when watching vs last season. Cousins, on the other hand, improved across the board from year 1 to year 2. And continues to do so. I ask...what has Wiggins done this season to show you that he has improved in any aspect of his game? Can and will he get better? Sure. But I just don't like the "baseline" skillset where Wiggins is starting. Even is scoring (which is all he really excels at from a numerical perspective) isn't anywhere near as efficient as other top scoring options.

[TAFKASP]

I understand that Love wasn't exactly lovable. But I never knew he was on the DeMarcus Cousins level.

I actually dislike whiny more than mercurial, so my dislike of Love actually exceeds that of Cousins.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Ehh, you're not really selling the truth about Cousins. He was All-Star worthy his sophomore season (age 21) and every year after that. Been in the league six years and has had a PER above 20.00 for five of them. Let's not downplay Cousins dominant, star level ability for the sake of the argument.

If Wiggins had Cousins' aggressive, I-can-score-at-will mentality, I wouldn't trade him for anyone.

I think you are overstating for effect. Cousins teams have never won 30 games in a season. He put up nice stats. But so has Wiggins. Neither were/are All Star worthy their first couple years. But the larger point I was making was that if you look at Cousins stats (per game and advanced) you can see steady improvement each year for 5 years. Wiggins has also improved from year one to year two. Therefore, if you are considering swapping a young player, you need to consider projections - not just current. I think some are a little too quick to consider dealing our young guys. Granted, sometimes improvements never come (we've seen it many times). But personally I'd err on the side of caution when dealing such young talented guys. The last thing this Franchise needs is to deal away a young guy who ends up becoming a great player for some other team.

What has Wiggins done better this year than last? While I think he exceeded my expectations last year, he is flatline to worse this season. I see absolutely no statistical improvement and don't notice anything he does better when watching vs last season. Cousins, on the other hand, improved across the board from year 1 to year 2. And continues to do so. I ask...what has Wiggins done this season to show you that he has improved in any aspect of his game? Can and will he get better? Sure. But I just don't like the "baseline" skillset where Wiggins is starting. Even is scoring (which is all he really excels at from a numerical perspective) isn't anywhere near as efficient as other top scoring options.

To be fair, I think being able to up his usage and become a go-to guy with some successes mixed in without f-ing up his efficiency... I think it matters.

I'd like to see more obvious tangible signs of growth, but I wouldn't say Wiggins is stagnant just yet.

I've seen enough to remain optimistic about his future... even if I realize it's not a sure thing that he becomes a star.

[Carlos Danger]

What has Wiggins done better this year than last? While I think he exceeded my expectations last year, he is flatline to worse this season. I see absolutely no statistical improvement and don't notice anything he does better when watching vs last season. Cousins, on the other hand, improved across the board from year 1 to year 2. And continues to do so. I ask...what has Wiggins done this season to show you that he has improved in any aspect of his game? Can and will he get better? Sure. But I just don't like the "baseline" skillset where Wiggins is starting. Even is scoring (which is all he really excels at from a numerical perspective) isn't anywhere near as efficient as other top scoring options.

Points Per Game
Wiggins last year: 16.9
Wiggins this year: 20.6 (21st in entire NBA)

PER
Wiggins last year: 13.9
Wiggins this year: 16.3 (He's a little more efficient)

TS%
Wiggins last year: .517
Wiggins this year: .536 (Both his FG% and FT rate increased from last year)

Assist %
Wiggins last year: 9.8
Wiggins this year: 10.0 (not much of an increase - but improvement none the less)

Turnover %
Wiggins last year: 11.7
Wiggins this year: 10.5 (small improvement in taking care of the ball)

Win Shares
Wiggins last year: 2.1 (.034 on a per 48 rate)
Wiggins this year: 3.0 (.062 on a per 48 rate aka almost double last year)

He's improved. Maybe not as fast or as much as some would like. But again....he's 20. Let's not make a panic move by trading him because he's not an All Star this second. We have three 20 year olds that could be a nucleus for years to come.