Minnesota Sports Forum

Camden -- I'm becoming concerned. For the second time in the last few days I find myself agreeing with you. :). It has been my view since we drafted him that Williams is a PF. But he showed enough last season on the defensive end to suggest that he may be able to defend the SF position. And as you pointed out, the organization needs to find out one way or the other this season. Willams should definitely be our starting SF this season -- at least at the start of the season -- for all the reasons you identified.

Camden wrote:Which comes back to my point about how DWill should be the starting SF.

1) He has the size and athleticism to guard SFs, especially if his body is right coming into camp.

2) He has the best chemistry with Rubio out of the players battling for the spot. That and DWill needs to be set up to score in most cases, making the need for him to play with Rubio a bigger deal.

3) Sota needs to find out once and for all if DWill can hold the SF job down. How is he able to prove that he can or cannot hack it if he isn't given substantial playing time to prove so? He has what, two more years here? Adelman needs to push DWill into becoming the a 3 that can play with Love as opposed to behind Love.

4) Brewer and Bud are proven bench players. While I'm not saying that they couldn't be contributors in the starting lineup, they are better bench players than DWill. My point being that I think DWill has more value to the team in the starting lineup than he does coming off the bench. Does that make sense or am I wording it terribly?

While I agree with the first comment, I don't believe the second is true. Brewer has no ability to create a shot for himself, and Martin is quick enough but still doesn't have much of a handle for a player his size. I think at this point in their careers it is a toss up between Martin and Williams.

I disagree on the third comment. I think Adelman needs to get out of Williams way and Derrick will take care of the rest. I don't know why in Minnesota we always seem to have a coach who believes he has to make the young guy "earn his way" , while other teams just throw the guy into the fire and let him figure it out. It isn't always an easy step up to the NBA and these guys need to be focused on the court, not the tantrums that their coach is throwing on the sidelines over every little mistake.

I don't care whether Williams starts or comes off the bench, but I think it is important to get him significant minutes to start the season, and live with his mistakes.

I like Williams, so I really want to jump on the Cam/Lip bandwagon to start Williams at SF. But I just can't. I continue to think that Williams best role is backing up at both PF and SF. Since I would l like him to get 20-25 minutes in that role, it takes DC out of the rotation. I'm okay with that...DC will contribute if there are injuries, or if RA really thinks his defense is needed in a certain situation over Love or Williams.

I'm also warming to the idea of Brewer as the starting SF. While I'm sympathetic to Lip's concern about our wing bulk in that situation, I still think Corey is our best option there. When you consider Love, Martin and Brewer's favorite 3-point spots on the floor, they don't overlap and lead to some very attractive spacing. It's fun to imagine Ricky driving the lane, and having to choose between dropping it to Pek, or finding Corey in the left corner, Martin to the left of the top of the key, or Love to the right of the top of the key. Ricky's exceptional vision will ensure the ball ends up in the spot where we have the best chance of scoring, and unlike last year, the shot has a good chance of going in.

My support for Corey as the starting SF is predicated on the belief that his 40% shooting from the corner last year was not a mirage. If he can not reliably make that shot like last year, I would be more inclined to look at Derrick or Bud as the staring 3.

SJM - I'm not sure what you are talking about when it comes to Williams' playing time. He's averaged 23.2 minutes per game in his two years with the Wolves and started in 71 games. Has he been in Adelman's doghouse from time to time? Sure, but he's always made his way back into the rotation again and has started a bunch of games for us.

Longstrangetrip - I agree with your conclusion (starting Brewer at SF), but not your reason for it. Brewer is historically not a good corner 3 shooter. What happened last year is not indicative of his past year's corner 3 percentages, and besides that, he still sucked at 3's overall. That being said, I want him to start for the sake of balancing offense and defense with our lineups. I think Williams is more likely to give us some pop offensively off the bench with Martin, Love, and/or Pek on the bench. But as long as we have Martin, Love, and Pek in our starting lineup, those are the guys we need to milk big time. Brew needs to defend, defend, defend and only provide offense opportunistically. He took way too many shots last year for Denver and was probably one of their least efficient players.

Q12543 wrote:SJM - I'm not sure what you are talking about when it comes to Williams' playing time. He's averaged 23.2 minutes per game in his two years with the Wolves and started in 71 games. Has he been in Adelman's doghouse from time to time? Sure, but he's always made his way back into the rotation again and has started a bunch of games for us.

I think SJM was referring specifically to Williams' time spent at SF. As far as I can tell Adelman played him there very sparingly only when he had to and for only averaged 2-3 minutes there throughout the season. Even with all the injuries and it being totally acceptable to play healthy bodies in any lineup Adelman doesn't trust Derrick at SF.

Q12543 wrote:SJM - I'm not sure what you are talking about when it comes to Williams' playing time. He's averaged 23.2 minutes per game in his two years with the Wolves and started in 71 games. Has he been in Adelman's doghouse from time to time? Sure, but he's always made his way back into the rotation again and has started a bunch of games for us.

Q, how many minutes would Williams have logged last season had Love been healthy?

I agree with your take, q, and support Brewer as the starter mostly because of the early defense he can provide and the offensive spark Williams can bring off the bench. I want Corey's offense to consist of fast break lay-ups and left corner threes, providing he can continue the 40% performance he showed from the corner last year. I would hope RA will give him the hook if he tries to assert himself offensively more than that.

I think the starting SF position is open for someone to win it between Bud Brewer and Williams. I think sometimes a different guy could start depending on matchups as has been pointed out Williams can handle the beefier SFs possibly better than Brewer.

Another point on Martin's defense. Gues what a lot of teams start a guy that isn't really that tough of a cover. Whover the lakers start at SF. sefalosha there is a list of wing players on good teams that are far from guys you really have to worry about beating you. at times we evenhad Luke take those guys cause you just had to stand next to themso they weren't wide open. Martin should be able to do that.

It think people forget that Martin is actually a pretty good ball handler. In fact he is obviously a very good fit in his offense and he had the ball a lot in sacramento but that partly was not playing next to a true PG and now he is playing with Rubio. It could be a lethal combo on offense. Rubio has never played with a wing that's as good of a shooter as Martin and its not even close. Its going to be like playing with a new toy for him.

Sorry for multiple posts I am on my phone and so its better to do it this way.

A couple points on Williams.

1. I trust what Adelman is doing with him. He has developed a bunch of young guys and gotten more out of some of them than anyone else. Williams is and has been a very inefficient player on offense in 2 years. He has looked terrible a lot of times and kinda clueless. Last year was night and day in this regard. Of course his problem was that Dante made it tough at times to get on the floor. I think Adelman hesitated to put him at SF because he liked how Williams was playing at PF. Could he have gotten more minutes? Sure but Williams largely hasn't really banged down the doors to get minutes I don't care what position he has played or we want him to play. He made progress last year at least by my eye test.

If Williams can drop some more weight I think he does have a shot at playing SF for this tram next year and long term. I think he has enough skills and athletic ability to make it there as at least a starter and maybe make an all-star game. Defensively he has nice size and is pretty fluid moving around. If you compare him to Dante I think he has better physical tools its just if he learns how to use them. Will he make that step this year? I am not banking on it but after his progress last year I won't count him out. I won't be surprised if he takes a step forward on the offensive end too.