Minnesota Sports Forum

khans2k5 wrote:Come on longstrangetrip. Bringing race into the argument of why Adelman would or wouldn't play Bazz is just ignorant. You can see just with Dieng on the floor why he doesn't play our rookies that much. He looks clueless most of the time on both ends of the floor. Our rookies don't have the basketball IQ to be confident with this system on both ends as most rookies are the same way. Adelman goes with the vets because at the very least, they don't look clueless on the floor, they understand where they need to be for spacing purposes and they know the offense and defense much better. Why do you think rookies hit walls and lack consistency. Most of them have the talent, but they don't have the legs and IQ yet to pull off a full year of strong, consistent play. Adelman is playing the guys with higher IQ's because we don't have the ability to throw away wins by playing guys who don't understand how to play the game yet. It's always easier to say the unknown would do better because you have no idea how well they would do when given a chance, but there just aren't that many rookies in the history of basketball that make big impacts off the bench. The backup QB is the most popular guy on the team until he plays and people actually see why he is a backup.

We aren't a winning, our vets look completely lost and can't do their jobs. Most can't even be effective at the one dimension they were brought in for. This isn't debatable at all. It's the reason we continue to lose games. They is zero reason for Shabazz not getting minutes with the inept bench we have. Once again it comes down to two lousy players (at worst in Shabazz's case) but has upside. Maybe, just maybe, we should explore that.

I don't care what the fallout will be, we have to cut Rick loose, and try and salvage this season. Who on this board can't guess what our late game play out of the timeout will be. We will take the ball out on the left side and inbound to Love or Martin and hope one can set a pick for the other to take a 3. If I know this, don't you think the other team does as well. Adelman's is done as a coach, and I agree with Long on what it seems that Flip is saying. What I don't understand is why he traded DW for another one dimensional player if he truly believed that to be a problem.

One other note. It has only been 3 games, but it should be pretty obvious that Pek isn't as important to this teams success as some make out. Yes, our offense struggles more to score, but our defense seems to be much better, and that is with a minimum level player taking his place. Pek's importance should never have been more noticeable than in last nights game against Gasol and Randolph, but yet Gasol was completely taken out of the game by Turiaf.

I say we look to move Pek, cut rick loose, and I might even explore a bigger deal moving Ricky and Pek to Cleveland for Irving. Sounds like he might be unhappy over their, and I would think a Ricky and Pek for Kyrie and AV might make sense.

It may be unfair to bring race into this, khans...it's a product of my frustration with Adelman continuing to give Bud his 20 minutes of 32% brick-laying, while giving Muhammad fewer minutes than any other first round pick, by far. We can defend his choices by falling back on concepts like "basketball IQ", but I sense that is just another sports code word that allows us to talk about race without actually talking about it. It happens in all sports. If a wide receiver was described as not a great athlete but able to run "precise routes", I think most of us are knowledgeable enough to break that code. All coaches have certain preferences in a player, and Adelman's tendencies lead him to overvalue players like Hummel and a post-injury Bud, and to undervalue players like Shabazz...all to the detriment of this team long-term and short-term, I believe.

I agree with you that Shabazz does not have a good concept of spacing yet, and I think that's a major reason Adelman won't play him unless there are less than 2 minutes left in a blowout. But I would argue that Bud's broken shot is a much more glaring weakness right now than Muhammad's poor understanding of spacing. When good spacing allows Bud to get wide open for a jump shot, do you have any confidence that it is going in? Be honest, because I don't. I'm frankly surprised when one goes in. And yet Rick continues to play him. You say that Rick continues "to play the guys with higher IQs because we don't have the ability to throw away wins by playing guys who don't understand how to play the game yet", and I think that describes Adelman's philosophy perfectly. And it's clear that it isn't working. Adelman is out of step with the rest of the NBA coaches in not giving his rookies a little rope, and his insistence on throwing guys out there who can't make a shot is killing whatever chance we had of making the playoffs. He is proving to be a dinosaur in this league, and as much as I like him personally, the Wolves can't make a coaching change soon enough for me.

I just think Bud's struggles are 100% physical at this point. He should not be expected to be fully recovered this soon. He has been in Adelman's system for a couple years so he knows it backwards and forwards. You can see this when Bud plays. He knows exactly where he should be within the system. Bud even said himself that this is like his training camp right now. Once he gets into game shape, his shot should get better. When you don't have your legs as a jumpshooter, you're going to struggle. Also, Hummel was a 4 year college player. He's just been playing basketball for longer than Bazz and that is why I think he is the smarter player. People forget that Bazz is only 21. Hummel and Bud are 3 and 4 years older than him and they were never volume scorers. They had to learn how to play within their systems which involves learning how to play off the ball whereas Bazz has been a ball dominant scorer his whole life. Bazz doesn't have the off-ball game they do which is to be expected when they have a few years of experience on him. I think he can develop that off-ball game, but it is going to take time for the 21 year old. He's also still an iffy spot up shooter at this point, so it's no guarantee he will even be a better option than the other two. I understand the point of it can't hurt to try at this point, but then you also set Bud back from getting his legs under him and there is no doubt in my mind that a Bud with his shooting legs is better for our playoff chances this year than Bazz.

khans2k5 wrote:I just think Bud's struggles are 100% physical at this point. He should not be expected to be fully recovered this soon. He has been in Adelman's system for a couple years so he knows it backwards and forwards. You can see this when Bud plays. He knows exactly where he should be within the system. Bud even said himself that this is like his training camp right now. Once he gets into game shape, his shot should get better. When you don't have your legs as a jumpshooter, you're going to struggle. Also, Hummel was a 4 year college player. He's just been playing basketball for longer than Bazz and that is why I think he is the smarter player. People forget that Bazz is only 21. Hummel and Bud are 3 and 4 years older than him and they were never volume scorers. They had to learn how to play within their systems which involves learning how to play off the ball whereas Bazz has been a ball dominant scorer his whole life. Bazz doesn't have the off-ball game they do which is to be expected when they have a few years of experience on him. I think he can develop that off-ball game, but it is going to take time for the 21 year old. He's also still an iffy spot up shooter at this point, so it's no guarantee he will even be a better option than the other two. I understand the point of it can't hurt to try at this point, but then you also set Bud back from getting his legs under him and there is no doubt in my mind that a Bud with his shooting legs is better for our playoff chances this year than Bazz.

I agree with your analysis, khans...except for the conclusion. Bud's problems are physical now, and I expect (hope) that he will return to form once he is healthy. I just don't think that is going to be this season, and I don't see the Wolves as having the luxury of letting a guy spend his recovery time during games that we critically need to win to have any chance of making the playoffs. I can see the argument that the games are too critical to allow a rookie to have 18 minutes too, but that argument would be out of line with the thought process of every other current NBA coach. Unfortunately, we know what we are going to get from Bud until he is comfortable with his knee, and it isn't helping us win critical games. Shabazz, on the other hand, hasn't been given enough minutes for us to know what we would get from him, and I'm willing to see if his knack for scoring the basketball can help us win some of these close games.

Lots of good points (pro and con) about Budinger (knowing Adelman's system, physical shape, etc.) and Shabazz (youth, limited playing time, questionable shooting). But the core probably as I see it is this: the Wolves playoff chances should not turn on a choice between Budinger and Shabazz. This team has a serious roster problem and I'm not sure how to solve it given our lack of any cap room and very limited trade assets other than our core three. I'm ready to see Adelman go, but we'd still be left with an inadequate roster and a questionable front office.

I am to the point I watch Netflik rather then games. I don't even have an interest in spending money on this team to attend games or buy merchandise.

What will it take to get me back? I good trade that brings in a player that can help, but I don't see it happening. We traded our best trade chip for penny's.

These paragraphs are too long to read. Just skimming over it, are people really claiming its a race issue with bazz? whoever it is should be banned from speaking sports. Is he only playing Love because he's white? Wes Johnson is black and he played 82 games for Adelman. That should be the most opposite race statement. How about the fact that bazz hasn't played defense at any level. How about the fact that he couldn't even average an assist a game in 30 minutes a game( passing is big in adelmans system). How about the fact that he walked off the court when his teammate his the game winner in college? How about laying an egg in his only NCAA tourny game? How about being the only player ever to get kicked out of the rookie conference?

The question isn't why isn't bazz playing, it's why Flip drafted him when it's doubtful he's an NBA level talent

alexftbl8181 wrote:These paragraphs are too long to read. Just skimming over it, are people really claiming its a race issue with bazz? whoever it is should be banned from speaking sports. Is he only playing Love because he's white? Wes Johnson is black and he played 82 games for Adelman. That should be the most opposite race statement. How about the fact that bazz hasn't played defense at any level. How about the fact that he couldn't even average an assist a game in 30 minutes a game( passing is big in adelmans system). How about the fact that he walked off the court when his teammate his the game winner in college? How about laying an egg in his only NCAA tourny game? How about being the only player ever to get kicked out of the rookie conference?

The question isn't why isn't bazz playing, it's why Flip drafted him when it's doubtful he's an NBA level talent

Excellent post, Alex!

bleedspeed177 wrote:I am to the point I watch Netflik rather then games. I don't even have an interest in spending money on this team to attend games or buy merchandise.

Netflik? Is that the porn version of Netflix?!?

(Thanks for adding some humor during an otherwise depressing time!) :)

Honestly, I think the game has passed Adelman by. He once was a great coach, now he is mediocre at best. Last night was the final straw for me. I can understand leaving JJ on the court when he is running hot, and in the first part of the 4th quarter he was making shots. So leave him on the court then--I'm fine with that. But for the love of jesus h christ on a popsicle stick, let Ricky run the offense down the stretch. Leave JJ out there and let him play the 2-guard position, which is how he plays anyway.