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Re: I Have Some Things to Say
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:05 am
by Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]
He's above average in every other area. Granted shooting is a big part of the equation, but the wolves are a better team with him then without
I think we need to be careful here. Ricky is better than our CURRENT alternatives (i.e. Barea and Price), but that isn't really a compliment. That said, I think that if the Wolves want to take the next step, they need to look at getting someone on our roster that is substantially better than the current Ricky. It really is a shame the East is so bad because a Ricky for Lowry trade would have looked great for both teams...except now Toronto is winning.
Re: I Have Some Things to Say
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:28 am
by horatio81 [enjin:7751176]
Look at the entire rest of the league. How many teams are starting a complete non-scorer at pg? How many teams are starting fewer than two ball handlers? How many teams are starting fewer than three shooters? How many teams are starting zero shot-blockers? How many teams have precisely zero effective iso wing players?
This looked like a talented team heading into the season, but we're finding out otherwise. Love and pek kill it on offense, but that's it. Our signings haven't worked out. Our trades haven't worked out. Our returning players have regressed or faded. Almost everyone is overpaid. The coaching staff isn't reaching the players.
I'd really like to be glass half full here, but this is a deeply flawed and shockingly untalented roster surrounding an extremely selfish superstar playing in a ridiculously stacked western conference. I don't see us making the playoffs. I don't see Love staying here. I don't see Rubio developing into a legit starting pg. I don't see us having the assets to dramatically improve the team.
I do see another painful extended rebuild. We should seriously think about jump starting that process. Amass all the picks we can find, find a new young head coach, and pray we actually win the lottery for once.
Re: I Have Some Things to Say
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:37 am
by Coolbreeze44
Horatio, I'm not going to disagree with your post, but you're taking all points to the extreme edge. I believe we are being a little too Knee-jerkish with Rubio. He can and has played much better than he is right now. And with focus on his offensive game I don't see why he can't continue to get better. He still has some rare abilities, but he IS being stifled by this system and the players he is working with. I imagine him playing for the Clippers or Warriors and how much better he would be/look. I'll admit that he might be a guy limited by being a system player. But in the right system he can still be dynamic, no question in my mind.
Re: I Have Some Things to Say
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:50 am
by alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]
AbeVigodaLive wrote:The Rage Monster wrote:Abe I don't think they are necessarily excuses, they sound more like observations to me.
I would agree with these observations. I don't think we have the players on the team to take full advantage of the things Rubio does well, when's the last time you saw a successful lob at the rim in a half court set?
The other point about having another ball handler also makes sense. It's the level to which the other 4 starters cannot handle the ball that is the problem. Pek, he's a no dribble guy. Love, he's about a 1 dribble, step back guy. Brewer, he's a dribble and fall over guy. Martin, he's a dribble and lose the ball guy.
1) What about Rubio being able to maximize the players around him. Wasn't that one of his greatest strengths? That's what I read here and on the ESPN board.
2) I was the one begging for another guy who could dribble and create... for a long time. I was the one ripped for that viewpoint BECAUSE the team had Rubio. "We want Rubio creating, not Monta Ellis or anybody else." I'm not calling out anybody by name... I don't remember names. But I shirley remember those discussions.
Again, people are revising statements to excuse Rubio for being a bottom-tier starting PG.
Martin shoots about 20% better with rubio on the court. Love I think is about 8%. Pek shoots better as well
Re: I Have Some Things to Say
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:07 pm
by AbeVigodaLive
alexftbl8181 wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:The Rage Monster wrote:Abe I don't think they are necessarily excuses, they sound more like observations to me.
I would agree with these observations. I don't think we have the players on the team to take full advantage of the things Rubio does well, when's the last time you saw a successful lob at the rim in a half court set?
The other point about having another ball handler also makes sense. It's the level to which the other 4 starters cannot handle the ball that is the problem. Pek, he's a no dribble guy. Love, he's about a 1 dribble, step back guy. Brewer, he's a dribble and fall over guy. Martin, he's a dribble and lose the ball guy.
1) What about Rubio being able to maximize the players around him. Wasn't that one of his greatest strengths? That's what I read here and on the ESPN board.
2) I was the one begging for another guy who could dribble and create... for a long time. I was the one ripped for that viewpoint BECAUSE the team had Rubio. "We want Rubio creating, not Monta Ellis or anybody else." I'm not calling out anybody by name... I don't remember names. But I shirley remember those discussions.
Again, people are revising statements to excuse Rubio for being a bottom-tier starting PG.
Martin shoots about 20% better with rubio on the court. Love I think is about 8%. Pek shoots better as well
1) Does that say more about Rubio? Or Barea?
2) And that's still not good enough. Is it their fault? Or, Ricky's? Or a combination? Because reading this board for the past few years (ESPN days), I swear it's everybody else's fault more often than not judging by a lot of the responses.
Re: I Have Some Things to Say
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:10 pm
by alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]
AbeVigodaLive wrote:alexftbl8181 wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:The Rage Monster wrote:Abe I don't think they are necessarily excuses, they sound more like observations to me.
I would agree with these observations. I don't think we have the players on the team to take full advantage of the things Rubio does well, when's the last time you saw a successful lob at the rim in a half court set?
The other point about having another ball handler also makes sense. It's the level to which the other 4 starters cannot handle the ball that is the problem. Pek, he's a no dribble guy. Love, he's about a 1 dribble, step back guy. Brewer, he's a dribble and fall over guy. Martin, he's a dribble and lose the ball guy.
1) What about Rubio being able to maximize the players around him. Wasn't that one of his greatest strengths? That's what I read here and on the ESPN board.
2) I was the one begging for another guy who could dribble and create... for a long time. I was the one ripped for that viewpoint BECAUSE the team had Rubio. "We want Rubio creating, not Monta Ellis or anybody else." I'm not calling out anybody by name... I don't remember names. But I shirley remember those discussions.
Again, people are revising statements to excuse Rubio for being a bottom-tier starting PG.
Martin shoots about 20% better with rubio on the court. Love I think is about 8%. Pek shoots better as well
1) Does that say more about Rubio? Or Barea?
2) And that's still not good enough. Is it their fault? Or, Ricky's? Or a combination? Because reading this board for the past few years (ESPN days), I swear it's everybody else's fault more often than not judging by a lot of the responses.
it says more about rubio. Yes he's struggling right now but its overreacting to call him a scrub. Look at the whole body of work rather then the sample size
Re: I Have Some Things to Say
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:32 pm
by AbeVigodaLive
alexftbl8181 wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:alexftbl8181 wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:The Rage Monster wrote:
1) Does that say more about Rubio? Or Barea?
2) And that's still not good enough. Is it their fault? Or, Ricky's? Or a combination? Because reading this board for the past few years (ESPN days), I swear it's everybody else's fault more often than not judging by a lot of the responses.
it says more about rubio. Yes he's struggling right now but its overreacting to call him a scrub. Look at the whole body of work rather then the sample size
Who called him a "scrub?"
And, just check out his Per 36 numbers. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rubiori01.html
It's Year 3. He is who he is. That isn't saying he's a "scrub." Only that it's just not good enough.
Re: I Have Some Things to Say
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:35 pm
by alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]
bottom tier pg-scrub. tomato toemato. top rebounder, top 5 assists, top steals, plus defender. not bottom tier
Re: I Have Some Things to Say
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:42 pm
by AbeVigodaLive
alexftbl8181 wrote:bottom tier pg-scrub. tomato toemato. top rebounder, top 5 assists, top steals, plus defender. not bottom tier
We disagree on where Rubio ranks among NBA starting PGs.
But at least we agree that you're putting words in my mouth with "scrub."
Re: I Have Some Things to Say
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:50 pm
by Coolbreeze44
Abe, suppose he is as you say - a bottom tier player and not good enough. Then what? Where do you go? What do you do?