SAC shopping D Williams

[Monster]

I just looked at Williams stats after getting more minutes the last few games...yey 40% shooting overall. One of the biggest busts nobody nationally talks about. Maybe they are waiting till he is 25 so they can be absolutely sure he isn't good?

I guess this is a good enough place to post this but here is the ranking as of Nov 25 for sharges taken. Hummel is up there but even if you don't care about Hummel its interesting to see who else is up there.

http://hoopsmanifesto.com/articles/nba-stats/nba-charges-drawn-total-201415.html

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

SJM, Your insistence that Hummel is a useless NBA player is about as irrational at this point as Porkchop's ranting about Rubio.

Robbie is not paid to go toe-to-toe with the NBA's top forwards night in and night out. He's a very low-cost bench guy that Flip can put in there and trust that he .

There is a reason why Robbie's net On-Off rating is positive for a second straight season.

Edit: I just looked up Derrick Williams Net +/- ratings. He's never had a season when it's been positive, including this year. In other words, his teams are always worse when he's on the floor versus off of it.

There is nothing irrational about it. I can find a 16 year old that "understands the game, hustles, and generally makes the right decisions", but that doesn't mean he can be productive player in the NBA.

Net on-off ratings are a stat based on ten players on the floor. Robbie doesn't play enough to put any stock in that stat whatsoever.

You are right he is a low cost guy, but he isn't big enough to guard PF's, and he isn't quick enough to guard SF's, hell he isn't quick enough to guard PF's! He gave up about 3 "and 1's" against the lakers, and had zero chance of stopping the player from scoring on any of them. That isn't making the right decision, and nobody is asking him to go toe-toe with the top PF's. I am looking for a guy that can actually guard his position. Robbie is a poor shooter, has no post up game, can't dribble the ball, and has hard time not falling down when trying to run full speed.

If you are looking for someone that can guard his position effectively, make sure to let Flip know, because it ain't most of Robbie's peers on the TImberwolves, that's for sure. Their atrocious defense has been a true team effort. At least Hummel draws charges at an elite rate.

Jim Petersen, one of the more knowledgeable color commentators in the NBA, likes him a lot. If he was anywhere near as bad as your hyperbolic description, I highly doubt JPete would single him out for praise.

[mjs34]

Being a more knowledgeable color commentator isn't saying much when looking at his peers. Half of what JimPete says is BS, and that has been pointed out on several occasions when he has criticized players. I distinctly remember him calling out Beasley in a post game court session with Martel Webster. He was saying that Beas shouldn't have followed his shot, and instead gotten back on D. Martel was quick to correct him, and pointed out that the weakside player was the one that had that responsibility.

JimPete is known for having crushes on certain players, and it has little to do with their talent. He was always at odds with KG when he was here, but was always gushing over Jason Thompson, and Leuer (who is from the twin cities). Robbie is an easy guy to like and to root for, but that doesn't help the fact that he just doesn't have the talent to justify a roster spot.

Without a doubt the wolves are one of the worst team defenses in the league, but a lot of that has to do with having several players who can't cover their man. Mo, Martin, Bud, are ones that come to mind first. Flip is playing way too much zone, and I would guess that is why. I give Robbie credit for taking the charges, but that is about all he does, and taking 6 charges in a dozen games is hardly enough to make up for all his other shortcomings.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

The fact is that good things happen when Robbie is on the floor because he makes the right play and doesn't make mistakes. You just don't have a good plus/minus line if you are as useless as some are proclaiming because you would be playing 4 on 5 on both ends of the court and this is still pro basketball where teams take advantage of weaknesses like that. Robbie is a far more valuable player than D Will because he is consistent. D Will plays well once in a blue moon and is a huge negative almost every other time he is on the court. Meanwhile Robbie is consistently on units that hold their own for the most part (only -17 total points on the year). The team is 7.9 points per 100 possessions better with him on the floor than off. In comparison, the Kings are over 20 points per 100 possessions better when D Will is off the court. Sometimes being reliable to do the right thing every night far outweighs the potential of being the key piece in a victory less than 5 times a year. You simply can't be a successful 5 man unit if 1 of your guys is worthless so I don't see how anyone can say Robbie is worthless when he is clearly outmatched physically and on a talent level and yet his 5 man units find a way to keep it close every time he finds his way on the court. He is the exact minimum salary guy you want on your team to cover in times of injury and ride the bench when fully healthy.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Add DWill? Sure. Why don't we check on McCants' availability while we're at it? Maybe Ndudi Ebi isn't too busy these days either.

[Carlos Danger]

Add DWill? Sure. Why don't we check on McCants' availability while we're at it? Maybe Ndudi Ebi isn't too busy these days either.

Don't forget Darko who can fill in our need at C while Pek/Turiaf are out :-).

[worldK]

DW is a bust. Posters here were divided before with regards to him. Half think he is a bust while the other half thinks he will shine once he escapes adelman. Well, it seems more of a consensus now that dw is indeed a bust.

Williams is the same type of a bust that beas and mccants are. Its not talent they are lacking, but the mental aspect of the game and the ability to play edfectively and consistently within a team game. Guys like hummel and bud will have longer nba careers over guys like mccants and williams because they know how to play.

[mjs34]

this thread wasn't about keeping Williams, but about dumping Bud's contract.

Kahn, I would take the player that is up an down for a bench player 9 times out of 10 because you can pull him out if he isn't performing, rather than having a guy that is consistently below average. It's funny how peoples hatred comes shining through, rather than unbiased views. DW has been pretty bad since his second year with Adelman, but still isn't a reach to think he could be a decent bench guy. He posted solid numbers when filling in as a starter for Love. Even as bad as he has been, he is still better than Bud or Robbie imo. Bud has been atrocious offensively and may be competing for the worst defensive player in the NBA, but yet there are still several on this board who think he may come around. That is just laughable.

Now it looks like we just picked up a guy that couldn't make an NBA squad this season, and already most are placing him above Robbie on the depth chart. Shouldn't that tell us something. For Robbie's great +/- or on-off court numbers, he has an off rtg of 105 and a def rtg of 116. Not exactly a testament to his quality play.

[Carlos Danger]

For Robbie's great +/- or on-off court numbers, he has an off rtg of 105 and a def rtg of 116. Not exactly a testament to his quality play.

I go by NBA.com and his Offensive Rating is 107.9 which is second on the team to Rubio. His Defensive rating is 112.5 which is tied for 8th best on the team. But....you have to take into consideration he's been asked to play Center for several games now...so he's probably better than that at his normal postion (he was one of the better ones last year in Defensive rating).

[mjs34]

For Robbie's great +/- or on-off court numbers, he has an off rtg of 105 and a def rtg of 116. Not exactly a testament to his quality play.

I go by NBA.com and his Offensive Rating is 107.9 which is second on the team to Rubio. His Defensive rating is 112.5 which is tied for 8th best on the team. But....you have to take into consideration he's been asked to play Center for several games now...so he's probably better than that at his normal postion (he was one of the better ones last year in Defensive rating).

This team has been playing zone 70% of the time so he hasn't been asked to play center, and Bennett has been guarding the more skilled big when on the floor with Hummel when manning up. It really doesn't matter where he is asked to play because he is either undersized or too slow, and sometimes both.

I took my numbers from BB reference.com, but you could also look at 82games.com, where they show his on-off numbers to a +4.7, of course they also show him to have a -20.3 net production versus his opponent (worst on teh team) giving him a -11.9 simple rating, which is the second worst on the team.