Observations from the Smoothie Center (Game Report)

[Carlos Danger]

For me, the worst part is that the "vets" disappeared. Specifically: Kevin Martin, Pek, Mo Williams. Since Rubio went down, here's what these guys have done the last three games:

Martin has only scored 23 points: 8, 12 & 3
Pek scored only scored 34 points: 19, 11 & 4
Williams only scored 6 total ponts: 2, 2 & 2.

When the chips are down, that's when your leaders are supposed to step up and shoulder more of the work. Think Kirby Puckett game 6 "jump on my back guys" World Series moment. Maybe it's a bad three game sample. But I could not be more disappointed in those three guys right now. On the plus side, Brewer, LaVine and Wiggins have all stepped up since Rubio went down:

Brewer has scored 41 points: 5, 18 & 18
Wiggins has scored 45 points: 10, 15 & 20
LaVine has scored 26 ponts: 5, 8 & 13

If there is a silver lining, it's that the young guys have an opportunity to take over this team and make it "theirs".

[Phenom]

I was really disappointed in Martin last night. From what I saw he was trying as hard as could to foul out of the game and end his night early. Quitter.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

Thanks for the report BayouWolf. Disappointed in our veterans reaction after the Rubio injury. I guess if Martin isn't getting fed from Rubio, he shuts down.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I wouldn't go as far as some of you guys. I didn't see a lot of tenacity out there, but I don't think I saw a lot of quitting either--at least not as much as a 50 point blowout loss would suggest. Still, I saw a whole team get blown out by 50 points, and that's shameful for everybody..

Turning this into a vets vs. young guys debate is not helpful. How can we say the vets suck lately but then list Brewer as one of the bright spots?

Pek is playing bad, but he always plays bad to start the year. He's clearly working hard. If anything, he's trying to force too much on the offensive end.

Mo had a bad shooting night, and you know that's going to happen with him, just like some games he'll shoot well. Don't overvalue him when he shoots well, but also don't diss him when he shoots badly. And he is clearly trying to be more of a distributor than scorer since Rubio went down (maybe Flip asked him to), so criticizing him for not scoring is beside the point.

Nobody has mentioned Thad, another vet, who had a bad game the other day but who looks like he's been the glue that's holding this team together. Dude works his *ss off.

Martin had that one lazy foul when the commentators said it looked like he wanted to get off the floor, but I think that was more of a joke by the commentator. He had a terrible game, but you could say that for most of our guys except a couple. I'm not a big Martin guy. I hate how he sometimes seems to be fishing, trying to draw fouls without actually trying to get a decent shot off (although he does seem like the only Wolf trying to get to the line). And I obviously hate his D. But he is what he is: a scorer, and he's had 2 bad shooting nights out of the last three games. He's also shooting less, which might be smart when you start 0-6 like last night. But you can't criticize the guy for not shooting because Rubio isn't getting him the ball. Sure, he should take the ball to the hole more (everybody should) unless he gets it in a catch and shoot situation. But Is he supposed to make other guys dish him the ball through mental telepathy? Is he supposed to hypnotize Flip into calling some curl plays for him? Effort? Ok, he wasn't going balls to the wall last night, but he never does. That's not his style. Even when he scores 25 points, it doesn't look like he's trying. He's a jump shooter who gets to the line by fishing for fouls. He's not Brewer. And if he'd have hit 6 of 6 shots, or scored 20-30 points like he was earlier in the year, nobody would be complaining.

Piling on the vets after last night's loss overlooks the obvious - - EVERYBODY owns a game as sh*tty as that. NOBODY comes out looking remotely good from that. LaVine and Wiggins and Dieng were just as responsible for that truly, truly horrible defense as Martin and Pek. Likewise, everybody is responsible for playing competitive ball after Rubio is out. I'd like to see the young guys play more too. But we can't say "bench the vets" and then complain when they don't produce. Lots of guys have played badly lately, and everybody played bad last night. Let's hope it turns around soon with both the vets and young guys working together.

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

I actually missed last nights game thankfully it seems. I'll point out that I don't think Adleman ever got that blown out even when he had to play Jellyball and Chris Johnson 35 minutes a game

[mjs34]

Pek is playing bad, but he always plays bad to start the year. He's clearly working hard. If anything, he's trying to force too much on the offensive end.

Mo had a bad shooting night, and you know that's going to happen with him, just like some games he'll shoot well. Don't overvalue him when he shoots well, but also don't diss him when he shoots badly. And he is clearly trying to be more of a distributor than scorer since Rubio went down (maybe Flip asked him to), so criticizing him for not scoring is beside the point.

Nobody has mentioned Thad, another vet, who had a bad game the other day but who looks like he's been the glue that's holding this team together. Dude works his *ss off.

Martin had that one lazy foul when the commentators said it looked like he wanted to get off the floor, but I think that was more of a joke by the commentator. He had a terrible game, but you could say that for most of our guys except a couple. I'm not a big Martin guy. I hate how he sometimes seems to be fishing, trying to draw fouls without actually trying to get a decent shot off (although he does seem like the only Wolf trying to get to the line). And I obviously hate his D. But he is what he is: a scorer, and he's had 2 bad shooting nights out of the last three games. He's also shooting less, which might be smart when you start 0-6 like last night. But you can't criticize the guy for not shooting because Rubio isn't getting him the ball. Sure, he should take the ball to the hole more (everybody should) unless he gets it in a catch and shoot situation. But Is he supposed to make other guys dish him the ball through mental telepathy? Is he supposed to hypnotize Flip into calling some curl plays for him? Effort? Ok, he wasn't going balls to the wall last night, but he never does. That's not his style. Even when he scores 25 points, it doesn't look like he's trying. He's a jump shooter who gets to the line by fishing for fouls. He's not Brewer. And if he'd have hit 6 of 6 shots, or scored 20-30 points like he was earlier in the year, nobody would be complaining..

When you make 12 mil a year, it isn't a viable excuse to say you always play bad to start the year. That is why they have a training camp and preseason. Pek wasn't forcing things, it is the complete opposite. He isn't fighting hard for positon, and then rather than using his size to back his man down, he is fading away throwing the ball at the backboard. At 290lbs, he should be bouncing his man under the basket and making a layup. He has to be more physical and also start using some of his 6 fouls to send a message to the other team. What good is his size, if he doesn't use it to his advantage?

Mo has had 6 horrible shooting nights in a row, and it has a lot to do with the shots he is taking. He shot a 26 foot 3pter with almost 20 seconds on the clock last night. Worse than his shooting, has been his lack of effort on D. Then there was the 3 on 2 break where he bounce passed five feet behind SHabazz, which I could understand except for the fact he had Brewer to his left unguarded for a direct pass twenty feet away. It's not like he couldn't see him.

As for Martin, he passed up two wide open 3's early on, as well as turning the ball over twice. The first turnover he just threw the ball out of bounds with nobody close, and the second was right after passing up an open 3pter, he bounced it in to AD.

I expect these types of errors from our young guys, but not from our vets. I'd put all three on the second unit, so they could play against other guys at their level. If we want starters screwing up, we can get that out of our first and second year guys with a lot more hustle.

[Carlos Danger]

Piling on the vets after last night's loss overlooks the obvious - - EVERYBODY owns a game as sh*tty as that. NOBODY comes out looking remotely good from that. LaVine and Wiggins and Dieng were just as responsible for that truly, truly horrible defense as Martin and Pek. Likewise, everybody is responsible for playing competitive ball after Rubio is out. quote]



One of the reasons teams keep a few vets on young teams is to be a stabilizing force when things get tough (like when the starting PG goes down). I don't think it's wrong for fans to want the more of Pek/Martin and Williams right now. The young guys need to contribute too, but nobody expects 1st or 2nd year guys to be the team leaders. The team shouldn't just completely fall apart because Rubio goes down. If someone from your office quits, does the boss expect the newest guy to handle the big accounts or projects that are now open? Nope. It will be the senior guys that all pitch in to cover. Pek, Martin and Williams are the senior guys.

It's a long season full of up and downs. I'm sure they will play better. But last night was brutal and I'm fine with fans calling it as they saw it.

[Monster]

I think critism of the vets is fair but I also think people are asking too much out of both Pek and Martin especially Pek. People seem to forget these guys are playing most of their minutes with a rookie PG and a Rookie SG plus other young players. That makes it tough on Pek especially who depends a lot on others and playing off guys. I'm not making a total excuse for these guys but man that's something to consider.

Brewer was fantastic. Games like this is why I wanted him on the team.

Bud looked like he hasn't forgotten how to play basketball maybe this game gets him going. We could really use that.

Wiggins looked good I'm really happy with how he played he keeps getting better every game imo.

[KiwiMatt]

I wouldn't go as far as some of you guys. I didn't see a lot of tenacity out there, but I don't think I saw a lot of quitting either--at least not as much as a 50 point blowout loss would suggest. Still, I saw a whole team get blown out by 50 points, and that's shameful for everybody..

Turning this into a vets vs. young guys debate is not helpful. How can we say the vets suck lately but then list Brewer as one of the bright spots?

Pek is playing bad, but he always plays bad to start the year. He's clearly working hard. If anything, he's trying to force too much on the offensive end.

Mo had a bad shooting night, and you know that's going to happen with him, just like some games he'll shoot well. Don't overvalue him when he shoots well, but also don't diss him when he shoots badly. And he is clearly trying to be more of a distributor than scorer since Rubio went down (maybe Flip asked him to), so criticizing him for not scoring is beside the point.

Nobody has mentioned Thad, another vet, who had a bad game the other day but who looks like he's been the glue that's holding this team together. Dude works his *ss off.

Martin had that one lazy foul when the commentators said it looked like he wanted to get off the floor, but I think that was more of a joke by the commentator. He had a terrible game, but you could say that for most of our guys except a couple. I'm not a big Martin guy. I hate how he sometimes seems to be fishing, trying to draw fouls without actually trying to get a decent shot off (although he does seem like the only Wolf trying to get to the line). And I obviously hate his D. But he is what he is: a scorer, and he's had 2 bad shooting nights out of the last three games. He's also shooting less, which might be smart when you start 0-6 like last night. But you can't criticize the guy for not shooting because Rubio isn't getting him the ball. Sure, he should take the ball to the hole more (everybody should) unless he gets it in a catch and shoot situation. But Is he supposed to make other guys dish him the ball through mental telepathy? Is he supposed to hypnotize Flip into calling some curl plays for him? Effort? Ok, he wasn't going balls to the wall last night, but he never does. That's not his style. Even when he scores 25 points, it doesn't look like he's trying. He's a jump shooter who gets to the line by fishing for fouls. He's not Brewer. And if he'd have hit 6 of 6 shots, or scored 20-30 points like he was earlier in the year, nobody would be complaining.

Piling on the vets after last night's loss overlooks the obvious - - EVERYBODY owns a game as sh*tty as that. NOBODY comes out looking remotely good from that. LaVine and Wiggins and Dieng were just as responsible for that truly, truly horrible defense as Martin and Pek. Likewise, everybody is responsible for playing competitive ball after Rubio is out. I'd like to see the young guys play more too. But we can't say "bench the vets" and then complain when they don't produce. Lots of guys have played badly lately, and everybody played bad last night. Let's hope it turns around soon with both the vets and young guys working together.

Thank you for talking some of us down off the ledge Drew.

Hopefully at least two of Martin, Pek and Williams have a good game tonight against Dallas.

Wiggins and LeVine look like 19 year old kids out there, but very good 19 year olds with a ton of upside.

Muhammad for me has been immense. He's never going to be a good defender or stuff the stat sheet, but offensively he is relentless.

Young is playing to the best of his ability often against bigger opposition. Would love to see him get some burn at small forward against certain matchups. We need him back asap.

[Phenom]

It wasn't just one foul unfortunately, or anything that was said by the commentary guys. There were at least 3 fouls by Martin that had me scratching my head. I don't think that I am the type to just throw out accusations often but he looked like he quit last night. Its not critical, however since he isn't a franchise guy and I doubt will rub off on the young guys at this point.