Minnesota Sports Forum

papalrep wrote:3 and 5) I will never understand Adelman's refusal to play 2 rookie first round draft picks who potentially could fill two major team needs---This is why Adelman is no longer in Houston, right?

We could have had Tony Allen? Really? So Rick didn't want to trade Bud and Flip wimped out? What the hell happened?

There were several rumors about this deal, papal, but in retrospect they were primarily from sources closer to the Wolves than the Grizzlies. That makes me believe that this was a deal that the Wolves wanted, but the Griz didn't...especially since it seemed to me like such an unbalanced deal in favor of the Wolves.

There's a lot of pining here for Hoiberg, do we know if he's really a good coach? I'm not so sure NBA coaching experience is necessary (see Kidd, Jason). But I wonder if he's not just now seeing the fruits of his celebrity recruiting a few years ago. Maybe some people who have watched Iowa St. play can chime in? He seems pretty mild mannered, I thought people wanted someone who's more fiery, aggressive, Thibodeau-like?

BizarroJerry wrote:There's a lot of pining here for Hoiberg, do we know if he's really a good coach? I'm not so sure NBA coaching experience is necessary (see Kidd, Jason). But I wonder if he's not just now seeing the fruits of his celebrity recruiting a few years ago. Maybe some people who have watched Iowa St. play can chime in? He seems pretty mild mannered, I thought people wanted someone who's more fiery, aggressive, Thibodeau-like?

It's a great question, Lloyd, and not one I have the answer to. The uncertainty about how good a coach he will be is probably why there is an equal amount of love here for SVG.

Although I don't know if he is the right guy, I would support him for the following reasons:

1) Royce White would walk over hot coals for him. He seems like the kind of coach that gets the maximum out of his players by showing them he believes in them in his quiet way. The nature of the NBA is that rosters will always have a few guys who came from a troubled early life, and Hoiberg seems like the kind of guy who would be a great father figure for them. I think he could get the most out of Shabazz, for instance, or even a lost soul like Alexey Shved.

2) He has over achieved at Iowa State. He had much less talent on his roster than rival Kansas, but he still coached ISU to a better overall record.

3) He is known to coach a pro style game, so the transition shouldn't be too difficult.

4) He is very smart. Having heard him speak a few times at my breakfast club, I came away very impressed with his basketball acumen, as well as his ability to control Sid Hartman :) .

At first I was on board with the concept of a fiery coach, and Fred doesn't fit that profile. But Jeff Hornacek is the poster boy for coaches that turned teams around, and I wouldn't describe him as fiery. Frankly, anyone that is more engaged during a game than Adelman will seem fiery.

I think the Royce White point is great LST. Shabazz is a bit of a unique dude, which I think is part of how he is perceived. I have mentioned his tourettes a couple of times on the board which manifests a bunch of behavioural characteristics which often make an individual seem detached and disinterested. I like this idea that Hoiberg has experience motivating players with their own unique neurological foibles and feel that Hoiberg would be able to go a distance to get the most out of players through strong relationships.

longstrangetrip wrote:

The Rage Monster wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:I agree that these were 5 critical moments/factors for the Wolves, and all negative, but I don't see #4 as a "mistake". I never believed that Memphis was at all interested in trading Prince/Allen for JJ/Bud, so I can't call it a mistake that the deal didn't get done...it was only a silly rumor. As for the other 4:

1) Public Dispute. We had a lot of discussion on this board, and my recollection was the majority here didn't really think Love did anything wrong. I still think Love was completely out of line to publicly call out two teammates, and I admit I was concerned about Love's maturity at the time. Since then, though, Love has been a model teammate, in addition to being one of the top 5 players in the league. I think Love learned a lot from this experience, and on balance it turned out to be positive.

2) DW trade. I was a supporter of this trade at the time...excited about LMaM's defensive reputation and relieved to be finished with Williams. Luc's complete ineffectiveness, though, has turned me around on this deal. I don't know whether to blame Flip or Adelman, but I'm choosing to blame Flip. I think he mishandled the DW situation.

3 and 5) I will never understand Adelman's refusal to play 2 rookie first round draft picks who potentially could fill two major team needs...bench scoring and rim protection. It's baffling to me. Combined with Rick's insistence on giving JJ huge minutes at backup PG, his insistence that Bud was healthy and deserved big minutes immediately upon his return, and his general disengaged nature all season, I give him an F for his coaching this year...and that may be generous. A better coach could have given this team 10 more wins.

I would have replaced 3) and 5) with just one major mistake...allowing Adelman to coach one more year. That was the biggest mistake the Wolves made this year. Many of us found it unusual that Glen/Flip didn't announce last summer that Rick was returning for another year. I think it's because he never really told them. He arrogantly just assumed he would continue coaching without communicating his intention to his employer. All of a sudden it was time for Summer League, and there was Rick...watching his son coach. I'm furious at the role Adelman had in bringing us long-suffering fans another lost year.

I completely agree with you on everything except #2. I think Adelman completely mishandled the DW situation. How do you think Flip mishandled the DW situation?

My opinion is Flip saw a bench that didn't have a ton of talent and had no other moves to bring someone in. This left him with a young and talented but inconsistent DW as our best option for a sixth man. I'm not defending DW because he's been a bust but I would take a bust coming off the bench over Dante and Hummel. Before DW was traded Adelman had played him about the same number of minutes as Hummel, I can't understand how that is possible. Keep in mind this is early in the season, if going into it Adelman had no intention of playing DW he needed to communicate with Flip and DW should have been traded in the off season when he had decent value.

I don't think the facts support your assertion, rage. I'm way down on Adelman, but I have very little problem with how he handled DW. He played him almost 25 minutes a game in 2012-13, and over 16 minutes a game before he was traded this season. I don't think his inconsistent play warranted more than that. But I will never understand why Flip picked up DW's option if he intended to trade him. I am a big supporter of Flip and most of the moves he has made so far, especially his draft coup, but I will never understand why he did that.

Ah I see your mistake, you can't allow the facts to get in the way of bashing Adelman! In my opinion Adelman forced a trade Flip never intended to make which is why I fully blame him.

More seriously though, DW played less than 15 minutes a game (11 games 162 minutes) and had 5 games where he never played. During that same stretch of games Dante played every game and average around 19-20 minutes and Hummel essentially had the same minutes per game and DNP's as DW. Given how bad our bench is you'd think (and I believe Flip thought) Adelman would give minutes to the guy who could actually average 10 points per game and has the ability to go off for 25 every so often (although inconsistent I admit). Again Dante is no great player I think it's reasonable to think his consistent minutes could have gone to DW.

As far as DW's option, I don't think Flip intended on trading him, I think he planned on him being a 6th man. Besides draft night DW's value was at it's peak last off season so if Flip wanted to trade him I think it would have been then. Maybe I'm giving Flip too much credit but I think at the time picking up the option made sense. If Flip didn't pick up the option it would have saved us $6 million but that wouldn't have put us below the cap to sign someone useful, also if for some reason DW did have a break out year we'd still have full control as far as keeping him or trading him this off season.

sjm34 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:First off, I don't think anyone in their right mind would have predicted that being .500 at this point in the season would put us 7 games back from the 8th seed. It's just crazy how much competitive imbalance there is between the two conferences.

Second, we've had our best season in years. Granted, the expectations were higher, but there is no question this is the best team and best basketball we have seen since the early 00's. We absolutely destroyed teams on a semi-regular basis and it was fun to watch when everything was clicking.

While I think the five points above are legitimate, I don't think any of them made that big of a difference. Most of us had the team pegged between 41 to 50 wins. I'm not sure anyone thought we would rip up the league on our way to 55-60 wins. A few better bounces, some better clutch play, and a coach that wasn't distracted by personal issues and a looming life in retirement probably would have yielded us the 5 or 6 additional wins we needed to get over the top.

At the end of the day, the #1 thing we need to do is find a coach this offseason with some fresh perspectives, a passionate desire to coach, and is someone that places an emphasis on defense.

Q, I disagree with comments on the win total. I think most pegged their number based on the expectation of injuries setting the team back some, but it wasn't injuries that did that. It was Adelman's pigheaded decisions and rotations that accomplished that.

When I think back to the first time Pek and Turiaf were out, and we had DC starting and Dieng still getting mininmum minutes, it makes me question how Adelman survived as long as he did in this league. How can you not be giving minutes to Shabazz at this point in the season?

I am not going to give any credence to the lost trade because we really don't know the facts. The Dwill trade made zero sense other than Adelman's mismanagement again. Love calling out his teammates was handled poorly, but clearly didn't set the team back at all.

I think this is a 50 win team with a better coach running things, but I still think we need to move Pek, to push us even farther.

I don't disagree that Adelman mis-managed some things and player rotations. At the end of the day, it's time for him to move on, and my guess is that he realizes this as much as anyone.

As far as moving Pek, it's all about what we get in return. I don't necessarily object to your Deng idea, but there are very few other ideas I'm enamored with or that I think are realistic.

Please share the other Pek trades. I haven't seen many good ideas out there. Luol Deng for Pek is the only one that's worth a shit.

Here's my list:

1) Thinking Barea at backup point guard was a good idea. This was a dumb decision from day 1.

2) Playing Barea in the 4th quarter instead of Ricky. This has been well documented--no need to elaborate.

3) Not developing young players:

--Gorgui: Has the rim protecting ability we desperately need. Yet for the first 60 games of the season he usually only played in garbage time. Since he was forced to start he's proven that he could have been in the rotation much earlier. Maybe even from day 1.

--Shabazz: Was fine with him riding the pine early in the season. Then he went down to the D--League and played well. Then he finally got a chance and played even better, and arguably saved the season in Phoenix. Since then he has barely played. Mind boggling.

--Rubio: Kept yanking him in 4th quarters (and sometimes even when he was playing well--see the huge Memphis game we blew at home). Ruined his confidence--he even admitted it--and most likely stunted his development this season. The good news is he's been better as of late. Still has a ways to go though.

--Derrick Williams: Seemed like he never got out of Adelman's doghouse. Ended up trading him for a bag of chips in LRMAM. Then to compound matters we didn't use that bag of chips right (LRMAM was supposed to be a guy you use to stop the other team's best player--but instead he often comes in the game with a bunch of other guys who can't score and the result has been ugly).

4) Misuse of players:

--Bud: The hope was he could give the bench a boost when he came back. It quickly became obvious not only was that boost not going to happen, but he was hurting the team badly on the floor (couldn't make a wide open 3, and was playing matador defense). Yet Adelman kept putting him out there long after he should have been benched.

--Shved: used as a two guard when his most productive position has always been point guard. He's best when he is looking to pass, not shoot. Playing him next to the ball hog Barea made things even worse. He may be a lost cause at this point, which sucks because he is under contract for another year.

--Price: Never got much of a chance in the backup point guard role. Not sure why he was on the team considering Shved can play the 1 if needed.

5) Bizarre bench lineups that resulted in close games turning ugly quick. The main example is: Any lineup that had Barea, Bud, LRAM, and Dante as 4 of the 5 players was doomed to fail. Now add in a 5th guy like Hummel, Shved, Shabazz, or even a starter and the results were sadly predictable. The season may have been officially lost due to this exact situation when Adelman trotted one of those lineups out at home against the Knicks to start a close 4th quarter. I believe we were down 2 and the Knicks smartly left their starters in. They got up about 10 quick and we never recovered.

In summary, this has been a dumb season. At worst these final 10 games should mean something as we should have at least 5 more wins. At best we may be sitting in the 7th seed right now which would be a huge step in the right direction. Blah.

That's an outstanding summary of the lost season, misty...not much I would disagree with there. So frustrating that there were so many easily correctable things this year that potentially could have significantly improved the season.

The good news for you is that even with the bad decisions, it looks like you're going to win your Wolves total wins bet. They only need 5 wins to finish even, and I see 6-7 wins in the remaining 10. You could even get lucky tonight. We always play the Clips tight, and you may catch a break tonight if Griffin doesn't play...they're awfully soft without him.

Yeah LST I agree on the bet--it still looks OK, but I could easily see us going on a tailspin to end the season simply because K-Love has started to check out. If given choice I'd rather not have the bet at all right now, but at least it will give me a reason to keep watching.

I'm starting to think Adelman may have big money on under 41 wins though. It would explain a lot.