Minnesota Sports Forum

SagaciousMagnanimous wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:29 pm I don't think it would be wise to trade Kat this off-season.

1). His trade value is at it's lowest. His #'s were down and he had some more bad playoff performances. I don't think he and Gobert have had enough time to figure it out yet. His 4 month injury and recent return didn't help either. I think he'll play better and have better stats next year. They also won't get a good return for him or one that makes them any better. If it fails next year, then trade him.

2). He's been loyal since day 1. Although, he often complains to refs, he hardly complains about the team. He switched positions after 7 years in the league to make for room for Gobert. He definitely could have complained after struggling in his new position. What kind of image or culture do they have if they trade their loyal all-star? What does that say to Ant? What does that look like to free agents?

3.) Which brings us to Ant. I don't think if asked, he'd be for trading Kat. Ant and Kat seem like genuine friends. They probably should keep Ant happy? He appears to be the Wolves best player since KG. He might be more open next year if there are similar struggles and failures?

I don't buy the KAT agreed to move to the 4 to accommodate Gobert idea. I think it was more the FO realizing how atrocious KAT is on D as a C and they all agreed he could potentially hang as a 4 and create some mismatches. Well, he is far too slow to play on the perimeter full time on D, and they have taken away one of his biggest offensive weapons which was his post game. I have no idea why, he was a complete force on the block his first 4 years. Now it is 3s, drive (1/4 chance of an offensive foul), or having try to back down from 12-15 feet away. Stupid.

This team benefits far more from having Gobert and pieces from a KAT deal than they do having KAT and pieces from a Gobert deal.

One thing that was huge for me was Jaden talking about how much he has learned from Gobert on D. I want to keep that. Did the same thing happen with NAW + info from Conley and SloMo. There might be something to having a big who will control the paint and allow you to press up and chase a bit knowing he will be there.

KAT is completely clueless out there in the paint or on the perimeter. He just does not understand defensive rotations and it is not going to change 9 years into his career.

I voted to trade Rudy. Keep Kat and Naz.
We need to get the best possible value for him.
The trade for Rudy was one of the worst (and I wrote about it in July 2022 right after we made the trade).
Before the trade we had hope and excitement that something would be built here for years, and the trade destroyed that hope.
Rudy is a good guy, but he's not a Max player, not even close.
Rudy's offensive problems are devastating.
We can't keep trying to fix this trade, and we have to admit failure (between us, it's not that hard for us to do that.)
Ant and Kat are unique talents that we must keep and continue to build around.
We need to bring around them suitable complementary players with a defensive orientation, but with the ability to contribute offensively.
Anderson and Naw should stay.
Maybe we need a new coach (although I like Finch) who spurs his team on, and doesn't collapse at the moment of truth.
In the end, this team needs to be given stability and peace, and we the fans have new hope that we have the real thing here.

My vote was to trade KAT and keep Naz/Rudy. I think it was Q who referred to Naz as a cheaper version of KAT. Essentially both a good on offense and bad on defense. But one comes with a Super Max contract and the other would be significantly cheaper.

KAT played 29 games this year and I think we were about .500 with or without him. He just wasn't a difference maker. But even with the down season, I think his value around the league would be pretty good. Certainly far more than Gobert.

For those advocating to trade Gobert...what do you realistically think they could get back? Maybe a rotational player and one protected 1st round pick? I'd think that would be it IMO. I believe KAT could bring back double that. So, if you are looking to reload after the failed Rudy trade, I think it has to be KAT that goes - not Rudy. Unless you simply feel that it would be addition by subtraction getting rid of Rudy? By my count, the Wolves were 8-4 in games Rudy didn't play in regular season - so there is that...

But I keep going back to the fact that TC made his signature move and I can't see him back tracking on it after one year. Nobody ever wants to admit they were wrong and big shots are especially bad at it.

KG4Ever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:59 pm Depends on the return we can get. If KAT could get us back a similar package to what we gave up for Rudy, absolutely!

Don't care about the picks, we need better players for KAT then what we gave up for Rudy. If we get a package of low rotational players and picks I'd quit being a fan of the team.

You can't sell a "star" for bum players and picks. I say "star" because I am not that convinced KAT even moves the needle that much. He still moves it however and getting late 1sts back and bum players likely won't.

SagaciousMagnanimous wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:29 pm I don't think it would be wise to trade Kat this off-season.

1). His trade value is at it's lowest. His #'s were down and he had some more bad playoff performances. I don't think he and Gobert have had enough time to figure it out yet. His 4 month injury and recent return didn't help either. I think he'll play better and have better stats next year. They also won't get a good return for him or one that makes them any better. If it fails next year, then trade him.

2). He's been loyal since day 1. Although, he often complains to refs, he hardly complains about the team. He switched positions after 7 years in the league to make for room for Gobert. He definitely could have complained after struggling in his new position. What kind of image or culture do they have if they trade their loyal all-star? What does that say to Ant? What does that look like to free agents?

3.) Which brings us to Ant. I don't think if asked, he'd be for trading Kat. Ant and Kat seem like genuine friends. They probably should keep Ant happy? He appears to be the Wolves best player since KG. He might be more open next year if there are similar struggles and failures?

The things is KAT is in his prime. His value can really only stay flat or go down as he turns 29 and 30. Teams would want to "fix" him now. Give him a fresh start just like Love and Wiggins who BOTH won a NBA Championship after leaving here. The point is that a restart can be great for KAT and the team he goes to. He hasn't proven here to - get better over the years at his weaknesses (fouling and playoff disasters).

I see no upside for KAT here while he does for another team.

If anything you blow them both out the door (Rudy and KAT) and reset with as many picks as possible and hope TC can get another star or possibly two out of say the next 10-12 picks (your own picks plus what you get back for KAT and Rudy).

I voted trade KAT, keep Rudy and NAZ. I just don't think that with the narrative out there that it was such a bad trade for Rudy any front office will give you jackshit for him in fear of them losing their job. You'd have to sell for 10 cents on the dollar. You are stuck with him, which isn't a bad thing.

For the first time since KG left the Wolves had a good defense. I think that is the future success of the Wolves.

Play hard tough and physical defense. Get players who will. NAZ certainly doesn't but he is a decent backup 4 who can score really well. But I would look to go forward with bringing back NAW, getting Jaden back healthy. Look for a solid 3 and D type of PG as well to add to the team (from KAT trade likely).

Look to be a top 5 defensive team year in and out and you can be a contender. Rely on Ant to provide a lot of the offense going forward. Get cheaper 3 and D type role players around him. Play hard, fast, aggressive strong defense. Hit the open 3 ball.

I'm the lone vote for keeping Rudy and KAT and letting Naz go. I think we saw the kind of rim protection we can now have...when was the last time Jokic went 8 for 29? And while I love Naz, his porous defense makes him not worth the contract he will command...I'd rather go forward with a cheaper option like Garza.

FNG wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:02 am I'm the lone vote for keeping Rudy and KAT and letting Naz go. I think we saw the kind of rim protection we can now have...when was the last time Jokic went 8 for 29? And while I love Naz, his porous defense makes him not worth the contract he will command...I'd rather go forward with a cheaper option like Garza.

I suggested that as well, it really depends on what NAZ will command on the market and if the new owners want or can pay Lux Tax. Garza could provide similar results as NAZ for a very small fraction of the cost (offense and crap defense). He having never earned any sort of big money would likely sign any type of min deal I imagine (3 years 4.5 for example). I agree we just may not to be able to even keep Naz. We still need to keep in mind we must up Ants salary along with Jadens too.

FNG wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:02 am I'm the lone vote for keeping Rudy and KAT and letting Naz go. I think we saw the kind of rim protection we can now have...when was the last time Jokic went 8 for 29? And while I love Naz, his porous defense makes him not worth the contract he will command...I'd rather go forward with a cheaper option like Garza.

I didn't vote as there are too many uncertainties (trade opportunities for any of them and what Naz contract will be), but I might agree with you if Naz wants an outsized contract. Despite his offensive improvements, he still continues to be a negative plus/minus and given the glut of big men available, anything beyond $10 mil is not worth it.

TheFuture wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 2:44 am

SagaciousMagnanimous wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:29 pm I don't think it would be wise to trade Kat this off-season.

1). His trade value is at it's lowest. His #'s were down and he had some more bad playoff performances. I don't think he and Gobert have had enough time to figure it out yet. His 4 month injury and recent return didn't help either. I think he'll play better and have better stats next year. They also won't get a good return for him or one that makes them any better. If it fails next year, then trade him.

2). He's been loyal since day 1. Although, he often complains to refs, he hardly complains about the team. He switched positions after 7 years in the league to make for room for Gobert. He definitely could have complained after struggling in his new position. What kind of image or culture do they have if they trade their loyal all-star? What does that say to Ant? What does that look like to free agents?

3.) Which brings us to Ant. I don't think if asked, he'd be for trading Kat. Ant and Kat seem like genuine friends. They probably should keep Ant happy? He appears to be the Wolves best player since KG. He might be more open next year if there are similar struggles and failures?

I don't buy the KAT agreed to move to the 4 to accommodate Gobert idea. I think it was more the FO realizing how atrocious KAT is on D as a C and they all agreed he could potentially hang as a 4 and create some mismatches. Well, he is far too slow to play on the perimeter full time on D, and they have taken away one of his biggest offensive weapons which was his post game. I have no idea why, he was a complete force on the block his first 4 years. Now it is 3s, drive (1/4 chance of an offensive foul), or having try to back down from 12-15 feet away. Stupid.

This team benefits far more from having Gobert and pieces from a KAT deal than they do having KAT and pieces from a Gobert deal.

One thing that was huge for me was Jaden talking about how much he has learned from Gobert on D. I want to keep that. Did the same thing happen with NAW + info from Conley and SloMo. There might be something to having a big who will control the paint and allow you to press up and chase a bit knowing he will be there.

KAT is completely clueless out there in the paint or on the perimeter. He just does not understand defensive rotations and it is not going to change 9 years into his career.

I think I may have been misunderstood? I wasn't trying to imply that it was Kat's idea to move positions. Yea, it probably was the front office. No matter whose idea it was, he did it, and didn't make any public complaints afterwards. That's the only point I was trying to make there.

Also, I'm not a huge Kat fan. I also am irritated by his careless play. Despite that, I think the Wolves are better with him than trading him. I totally get why people have had it with Kat. He is frustrating so often to watch. I guess it's my own naive hope that keeps me a Timberwolves fan, that wants to see them together and succeed next year?

I also wasn't advocating for trading Gobert instead. I don't think that'll realistically happen anyways. I do think Gobert's trade value is much closer to Kat's than some people believe. However, I want both back instead of a late 1st or two and a few scrubs.

That is an interesting bit about Jaden and Gobert. I never heard that. Thanks for sharing that.