Minnesota Sports Forum

TheFuture wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:14 pm I think Bruce Brown over NAW signing and a move to trade for an actual potential successor at pg would be a huge mistake.

1) Brown thrived in Denver because his best ability on offense is to cut. Jokic and the rest of that roster fit him perfect. The Wolves are not that offensive team for him with Rudy on the roster.

2) I don't believe he is worth the talks of up to 15 mil per.

With Jokic and without Jokic: http://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/play ... rId=203999

Good points, Future. We know how well NAW played with the other players on the Wolves. We don’t know how well Bruce Brown Jr. Will do. Like you, I’d prefer simply re-signing NAW and using Prince as part of a trade for a young PG successor to Conley. Otherwise, I’d just as soon re-sign NAW and keep Prince. Taurean helps this team and he’s on an expiring contract.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 8:29 pm

TheFuture wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:14 pm I think Bruce Brown over NAW signing and a move to trade for an actual potential successor at pg would be a huge mistake.

1) Brown thrived in Denver because his best ability on offense is to cut. Jokic and the rest of that roster fit him perfect. The Wolves are not that offensive team for him with Rudy on the roster.

2) I don't believe he is worth the talks of up to 15 mil per.

With Jokic and without Jokic: http://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/play ... rId=203999

Good points, Future. We know how well NAW played with the other players on the Wolves. We don’t know how well Bruce Brown Jr. Will do. Like you, I’d prefer simply re-signing NAW and using Prince as part of a trade for a young PG successor to Conley. Otherwise, I’d just as soon re-sign NAW and keep Prince. Taurean helps this team and he’s on an expiring contract.

Those are some compelling stats.

Let’s clear up that the Wolves wouldn’t be offering Brown 15 million they would only be able to offer him the mid-level at most.

I think Bruce Brown while not a natural PG is a guy that can play that position. In addition you get a guy that’s an excellent defender at either guard spot and sometimes even at SF so that’s a pretty big deal. It’s possible Bruce Brown is the guy to put next to Edwards. The Wolves wouldn’t have to give up a long term asset to add him. I’m not saying I am totally sold on that but if you had told me a few weeks or months ago we could add Bruce Brown this offseason I would be like sweet sign me up!

Lip I’ll address your point about Letting go of Prince and signing Brown or someone else as a concern for the luxury tax. What of the luxury tax ends up not being a concern? What if this is a time to add a ready good player before they can’t in a year or 2? Does the signing make the team better this season and beyond? If the answer is yes then let’s do it. Note that we already had the tax like go up 3 million this season above what was expected. What if it goes up that or more in other seasons? Signing a guy now rather than later might actually be smart and forward thinking because their salary would be lower than even a year from now.

Ultimately if BruceBrown is the player he was in Denver then he is a guy that the Wolves could add to legitimately move the needle towards being a contender. That’s a big deal. I’d dump Prince to get him if that’s the case and I like Prince a lot. If the Wolves are willing to drop Price then Knight is gonzo and quite frankly McLaughlin might be too. Dropping both of those guys and keeping a roster spot open might give them enough room to still sign NAW. I need to set up a spreadsheet for the Wolves salaries. Lol

Bruce Brown is a hek of a basketball player. We would be lucky to land him.

Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 10:44 pm

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 8:29 pm

TheFuture wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:14 pm I think Bruce Brown over NAW signing and a move to trade for an actual potential successor at pg would be a huge mistake.

1) Brown thrived in Denver because his best ability on offense is to cut. Jokic and the rest of that roster fit him perfect. The Wolves are not that offensive team for him with Rudy on the roster.

2) I don't believe he is worth the talks of up to 15 mil per.

With Jokic and without Jokic: http://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/play ... rId=203999

Good points, Future. We know how well NAW played with the other players on the Wolves. We don’t know how well Bruce Brown Jr. Will do. Like you, I’d prefer simply re-signing NAW and using Prince as part of a trade for a young PG successor to Conley. Otherwise, I’d just as soon re-sign NAW and keep Prince. Taurean helps this team and he’s on an expiring contract.

Those are some competing stats.

Let’s clear up that the Wolves wouldn’t be offering Brown 15 million they would only be able to offer him the mid-level at most.

I think Bruce Brown while not a natural PG is a guy that can play that position. In addition you get a guy that’s an excellent defender at either guard spot and sometimes even at SF so that’s a pretty big deal. It’s possible Bruce Brown is the guy to put next to Edwards. The Wolves wouldn’t have to give up a long term asset to add him. I’m not saying I am totally sold on that but if you had told me a few weeks or months ago we could add Bruce Brown this offseason I would be like sweet sign me up!

Lip I’ll address your point about Letting go of Prince and signing Brown or someone else as a concern for the luxury tax. What of the luxury tax ends up not being a concern? What if this is a time to add a ready good player before they can’t in a year or 2? Does the signing make the team better this season and beyond? If the answer is yes then let’s do it. Note that we already had the tax like go up 3 million this season above what was expected. What if it goes up that or more in other seasons? Signing a guy now rather than later might actually be smart and forward thinking because their salary would be lower than even a year from now.

Ultimately if BruceBrown is the player he was in Denver then he is a guy that the Wolves could add to legitimately move the needle towards being a contender. That’s a big deal. I’d dump Prince to get him if that’s the case and I like Prince a lot. If the Wolves are willing to drop Price then Knight is gonzo and quite frankly McLaughlin might be too. Dropping both of those guys and keeping a roster spot open might give them enough room to still sign NAW. I need to set up a spreadsheet for the Wolves salaries. Lol

All good points, Monster. My only disagreement is that I don’t see any free agent we could potentially get, including Bruce Brown, moving the needle enough to justify exceeding the luxury tax this year and subjecting this team to the repeater penalty next year. However, the good news is that, If the Wolves waive Prince, they’ll have enough room under the luxury tax to sign Bruce Brown to the full MLE and still sign their two rookies. They won’t be able to re-sign NAW, but that seems reasonable because Brown would probably get his minutes.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 11:09 pm

Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 10:44 pm

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 8:29 pm

Good points, Future. We know how well NAW played with the other players on the Wolves. We don’t know how well Bruce Brown Jr. Will do. Like you, I’d prefer simply re-signing NAW and using Prince as part of a trade for a young PG successor to Conley. Otherwise, I’d just as soon re-sign NAW and keep Prince. Taurean helps this team and he’s on an expiring contract.

Those are some competing stats.

Let’s clear up that the Wolves wouldn’t be offering Brown 15 million they would only be able to offer him the mid-level at most.

I think Bruce Brown while not a natural PG is a guy that can play that position. In addition you get a guy that’s an excellent defender at either guard spot and sometimes even at SF so that’s a pretty big deal. It’s possible Bruce Brown is the guy to put next to Edwards. The Wolves wouldn’t have to give up a long term asset to add him. I’m not saying I am totally sold on that but if you had told me a few weeks or months ago we could add Bruce Brown this offseason I would be like sweet sign me up!

Lip I’ll address your point about Letting go of Prince and signing Brown or someone else as a concern for the luxury tax. What of the luxury tax ends up not being a concern? What if this is a time to add a ready good player before they can’t in a year or 2? Does the signing make the team better this season and beyond? If the answer is yes then let’s do it. Note that we already had the tax like go up 3 million this season above what was expected. What if it goes up that or more in other seasons? Signing a guy now rather than later might actually be smart and forward thinking because their salary would be lower than even a year from now.

Ultimately if BruceBrown is the player he was in Denver then he is a guy that the Wolves could add to legitimately move the needle towards being a contender. That’s a big deal. I’d dump Prince to get him if that’s the case and I like Prince a lot. If the Wolves are willing to drop Price then Knight is gonzo and quite frankly McLaughlin might be too. Dropping both of those guys and keeping a roster spot open might give them enough room to still sign NAW. I need to set up a spreadsheet for the Wolves salaries. Lol

All good points, Monster. My only disagreement is that I don’t see any free agent we could potentially get, including Bruce Brown, moving the needle enough to justify exceeding the luxury tax this year and subjecting this team to the repeater penalty next year. However, the good news is that, If the Wolves waive Prince, they’ll have enough room under the luxury tax to sign Bruce Brown to the full MLE and still sign their two rookies. They won’t be able to re-sign NAW, but that seems reasonable because Brown would probably get his minutes.

Note I meant those stats posted by future were compelling not “competing”

I agree the Wolves should likely stay away from the luxury tax this year and even if they went over they would probably look to find a way to get out of it. I don’t expect that to happen though. Earlier on twitter Dane Moore was kinda explaining that they can’t use the mid level and then go that far into the lux the tax anyways which makes sense. If they want to use somewhere near the mid level I think they are gonna have some pretty good options.

Keep in mind losing Prince they will need someone to help with those minutes…NAW makes sense to help there. Prince is a bigger player but physically it’s not as much as you might think. He only weighs a few pounds more than NAW and Prince is a meh rebounder. NAW looked like a better defender last year overall. Prince is a solid on D but not great. If the Wolves need a guy with more size on a bigger SF they can play Minott or as Dane was pointing out Anderson will likely be playing more SF now with Naz resigned assuming relative health for Gobert Towns and Naz. So yeah maybe letting Prince go isn’t so bad depending on what else shakes out. Gonna miss that 3 point shooting but my guess is that the Wolves will either be signing someone who helps with that or keep NAW or both. Of course ideally Moore would be good enough to help also. They might keep Matt Ryan around for the shooting aspect of relaxing Prince. Ryan might actually be better at that in that he profiles as a guy that can just throw it up from anywhere behind the arc at high volume. Those 2 way spots are gonna be interesting. I’m mostly hoping they keep Garza around on one because that seems like the most likely path to keeping him on the roster.

Regardless this offseason has already been interesting even without considering any rumors about Towns. Connelly made a move to get a high 2nd round pick and still picked a guy at 53. Wasn’t exactly expecting that. Now it looks like they are gonna go try and get a pretty good player in FA even if that means losing Prince.

TheFuture wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:14 pm I think Bruce Brown over NAW signing and a move to trade for an actual potential successor at pg would be a huge mistake.

1) Brown thrived in Denver because his best ability on offense is to cut. Jokic and the rest of that roster fit him perfect. The Wolves are not that offensive team for him with Rudy on the roster.

2) I don't believe he is worth the talks of up to 15 mil per.

With Jokic and without Jokic: http://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/play ... rId=203999

A secondary player who cuts off the ball does better with the league's best player (and passer) on the court. Not really sure what we're supposed to do with those statistics.

It's not like Brown only played in Denver in his career. Brooklyn liked him enough to play him 52 minutes in a Game 7 vs. Milwaukee in 2021. He had an uneven playoff series vs. Boston in 2022... but scored 23 and 26 points in two of the four games.

He's improved his three point shooting, surpassing 40% on low volume in 2022... and then shooting more this season (3.2) at a decent enough clip (35.8%). If that's sustainable, Brown is definitely worthy of any contract near the mid-level. He sort of reminds me of a poor man's Andre Iguodala. A guy who might seem limited at times, but competes and does multiple things well enough to add value and stay on the court.

Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 10:44 pm

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 8:29 pm

TheFuture wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:14 pm I think Bruce Brown over NAW signing and a move to trade for an actual potential successor at pg would be a huge mistake.

1) Brown thrived in Denver because his best ability on offense is to cut. Jokic and the rest of that roster fit him perfect. The Wolves are not that offensive team for him with Rudy on the roster.

2) I don't believe he is worth the talks of up to 15 mil per.

With Jokic and without Jokic: http://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/play ... rId=203999

Good points, Future. We know how well NAW played with the other players on the Wolves. We don’t know how well Bruce Brown Jr. Will do. Like you, I’d prefer simply re-signing NAW and using Prince as part of a trade for a young PG successor to Conley. Otherwise, I’d just as soon re-sign NAW and keep Prince. Taurean helps this team and he’s on an expiring contract.

Those are some compelling stats.

Let’s clear up that the Wolves wouldn’t be offering Brown 15 million they would only be able to offer him the mid-level at most.

I think Bruce Brown while not a natural PG is a guy that can play that position. In addition you get a guy that’s an excellent defender at either guard spot and sometimes even at SF so that’s a pretty big deal. It’s possible Bruce Brown is the guy to put next to Edwards. The Wolves wouldn’t have to give up a long term asset to add him. I’m not saying I am totally sold on that but if you had told me a few weeks or months ago we could add Bruce Brown this offseason I would be like sweet sign me up!

Lip I’ll address your point about Letting go of Prince and signing Brown or someone else as a concern for the luxury tax. What of the luxury tax ends up not being a concern? What if this is a time to add a ready good player before they can’t in a year or 2? Does the signing make the team better this season and beyond? If the answer is yes then let’s do it. Note that we already had the tax like go up 3 million this season above what was expected. What if it goes up that or more in other seasons? Signing a guy now rather than later might actually be smart and forward thinking because their salary would be lower than even a year from now.

Ultimately if BruceBrown is the player he was in Denver then he is a guy that the Wolves could add to legitimately move the needle towards being a contender. That’s a big deal. I’d dump Prince to get him if that’s the case and I like Prince a lot. If the Wolves are willing to drop Price then Knight is gonzo and quite frankly McLaughlin might be too. Dropping both of those guys and keeping a roster spot open might give them enough room to still sign NAW. I need to set up a spreadsheet for the Wolves salaries. Lol

You'll notice those stats show Brown played far and away the most minutes without Jokic this season. Also Denver had the highest differential between their playoff rotation adjusted net rating and their regular season rotation net rating (a Dan Feldman stat). Their bench was just not good.

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 8:54 am

TheFuture wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:14 pm I think Bruce Brown over NAW signing and a move to trade for an actual potential successor at pg would be a huge mistake.

1) Brown thrived in Denver because his best ability on offense is to cut. Jokic and the rest of that roster fit him perfect. The Wolves are not that offensive team for him with Rudy on the roster.

2) I don't believe he is worth the talks of up to 15 mil per.

With Jokic and without Jokic: http://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/play ... rId=203999

A secondary player who cuts off the ball does better with the league's best player (and passer) on the court. Not really sure what we're supposed to do with those statistics.

It's not like Brown only played in Denver in his career. Brooklyn liked him enough to play him 52 minutes in a Game 7 vs. Milwaukee in 2021. He had an uneven playoff series vs. Boston in 2022... but scored 23 and 26 points in two of the four games.

He's improved his three point shooting, surpassing 40% on low volume in 2022... and then shooting more this season (3.2) at a decent enough clip (35.8%). If that's sustainable, Brown is definitely worthy of any contract near the mid-level. He sort of reminds me of a poor man's Andre Iguodala. A guy who might seem limited at times, but competes and does multiple things well enough to add value and stay on the court.

I think we are making a mistake if we don't pickup the prince option, or try to renegotiate his deal (if that is possible). Maybe offer him a 3 yr deal @6 mil/per. Prince brings a toughness that the wolves always seem to lack. He is a good fit size wise when McDaniels gets in foul troubled (which seems to happen regularly).

If we knew we could sign Brown it might make waiving Prince more attractive, but gambling on losing Prince while not getting a solid replacement seems foolish.

mjs34 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:52 pm

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 8:54 am

TheFuture wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:14 pm I think Bruce Brown over NAW signing and a move to trade for an actual potential successor at pg would be a huge mistake.

1) Brown thrived in Denver because his best ability on offense is to cut. Jokic and the rest of that roster fit him perfect. The Wolves are not that offensive team for him with Rudy on the roster.

2) I don't believe he is worth the talks of up to 15 mil per.

With Jokic and without Jokic: http://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/play ... rId=203999

A secondary player who cuts off the ball does better with the league's best player (and passer) on the court. Not really sure what we're supposed to do with those statistics.

It's not like Brown only played in Denver in his career. Brooklyn liked him enough to play him 52 minutes in a Game 7 vs. Milwaukee in 2021. He had an uneven playoff series vs. Boston in 2022... but scored 23 and 26 points in two of the four games.

He's improved his three point shooting, surpassing 40% on low volume in 2022... and then shooting more this season (3.2) at a decent enough clip (35.8%). If that's sustainable, Brown is definitely worthy of any contract near the mid-level. He sort of reminds me of a poor man's Andre Iguodala. A guy who might seem limited at times, but competes and does multiple things well enough to add value and stay on the court.

I think we are making a mistake if we don't pickup the prince option, or try to renegotiate his deal (if that is possible). Maybe offer him a 3 yr deal @6 mil/per. Prince brings a toughness that the wolves always seem to lack. He is a good fit size wise when McDaniels gets in foul troubled (which seems to happen regularly).

If we knew we could sign Brown it might make waiving Prince more attractive, but gambling on losing Prince while not getting a solid replacement seems foolish.

Well, Prince is gone. But I agreed. The team enjoyed him as a vet, especially ANT, and I thought he was kind of our toughness guy. I thought between Prince, Conley, and Anderson that the Wolves had a good culture to brew from.

If the idea becomes to clear cap to chase in competition for the "hot ticket" right now in the 27 year old 6'4 Brown, then I think it is stupid. Especially when picking up the option on the 28 year old 6'7 Prince and extending the 24 year old 6'6 NAW likely costs the same as what Brown will command per year.

If you want to run it back to see what you have, then run it back and see what you have already and that you can quickly get out of. Signing Brown like some here want could potentially balloon into something much more difficult to get out of.

I'm not saying TC is going in that direction. I hope he doesn't. We will see.

TheFuture wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 7:43 pm

mjs34 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:52 pm

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 8:54 am


A secondary player who cuts off the ball does better with the league's best player (and passer) on the court. Not really sure what we're supposed to do with those statistics.

It's not like Brown only played in Denver in his career. Brooklyn liked him enough to play him 52 minutes in a Game 7 vs. Milwaukee in 2021. He had an uneven playoff series vs. Boston in 2022... but scored 23 and 26 points in two of the four games.

He's improved his three point shooting, surpassing 40% on low volume in 2022... and then shooting more this season (3.2) at a decent enough clip (35.8%). If that's sustainable, Brown is definitely worthy of any contract near the mid-level. He sort of reminds me of a poor man's Andre Iguodala. A guy who might seem limited at times, but competes and does multiple things well enough to add value and stay on the court.

I think we are making a mistake if we don't pickup the prince option, or try to renegotiate his deal (if that is possible). Maybe offer him a 3 yr deal @6 mil/per. Prince brings a toughness that the wolves always seem to lack. He is a good fit size wise when McDaniels gets in foul troubled (which seems to happen regularly).

If we knew we could sign Brown it might make waiving Prince more attractive, but gambling on losing Prince while not getting a solid replacement seems foolish.

Well, Prince is gone. But I agreed. The team enjoyed him as a vet, especially ANT, and I thought he was kind of our toughness guy. I thought between Prince, Conley, and Anderson that the Wolves had a good culture to brew from.

If the idea becomes to clear cap to chase in competition for the "hot ticket" right now in the 27 year old 6'4 Brown, then I think it is stupid. Especially when picking up the option on the 28 year old 6'7 Prince and extending the 24 year old 6'6 NAW likely costs the same as what Brown will command per year.

If you want to run it back to see what you have, then run it back and see what you have already and that you can quickly get out of. Signing Brown like some here want could potentially balloon into something much more difficult to get out of.

I'm not saying TC is going in that direction. I hope he doesn't. We will see.

I think you nailed it, Future.