Page 2 of 4
Re: Kekgeek grades G1 vs lakers
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2024 8:31 am
by FNG
OK. now that my Ant rant is over, I'm ready to discuss Kek's grading. Let me get this out of the way: despite his elite shot making, with his ball stopping, indifferent defense and 4 turnovers, Ant deserves no better than a C. We need better from him.
Rarely does a single game plus/minus mean much, but tonight it does. Our best player (NAW) was a team-leading +13, and our worst (Conley) was a team-worst -22. Excellent grading, Kek. I mostly agree, and it's maybe just wishful thinking on my part that makes me give our new Knicks guys higher grades than you did. DiVo didn't shoot well, but his defense was elite, and he worked his tail off the entire game. I thought he was okay. And Randle quietly put up an efficient 16-9-4...that's what he does.
But mostly an uninspiring game by our guys...we need a lot more Thursday night.
Re: Kekgeek grades G1 vs lakers
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:36 am
by WildWolf2813
Jaden's leading the league in fouls.
Re: Kekgeek grades G1 vs lakers
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:50 am
by WildWolf2813
FNG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 8:22 am
thedoper wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 12:05 am
Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 11:54 pm
Is it 4 now? I thought it was 3 within the calendar year with 3 different girls. He's got Shawn Kemp in his sights. I'm joking about this because it totally worries me as a Wolves fan.
Yeah it was easy to appreciate his bravado but its teetering on the edge of delusion lacking character. He clearly had a rough history and is resilient but Im not sure how he will handle superstardom. Im a bit concerned too.
I thought I might be alone on this island, so I'm happy to have some company on the "concerned about Ant" train. Well, not entirely happy. Is Ant a remarkably talented basketball player? Of course...he deserves most of the national accolades he is getting. But it's his character that concerns me. I listened to Brit Robson raving about Ant's character on Dane Moore's recent pod, and I said out loud "What???". Not only the continuing dalliances with various women, there are also the occasional unfortunate tweets that he has to walk back. But his endearing childlike personality seems to save him over and over again. Not with me...I have real concerns that someone like Ant has the type of character to lead a team to a championship.
The word I used last year when I expressed my concerns was "gravitas". The great ones have it, and Ant doesn't. At least not yet. I found myself contrasting Ant's on-court behavior last night with two HOFers on the court with him...Davis and LeBron. They are all business out there and focused on one thing...winning. (Well, other than LeBron's need to get his son on the court with him for a couple minutes, but I'm not going to rip a dedicated dad). In contrast, Ant seems more concerned with his fame and rubbing shoulders with great ones than playing winning basketball. Did you see him taking every opportunity to chat during the game with his Olympic teammates? My favorite moment was when Davis got in his face. It was almost like Brow was saying "Hey, we were teammates and buddies last summer, but we are mortal enemies right now". That's the attitude I want from Ant. But my fear is he is much more into the NBA lifestyle...banging chicks and hobnobbing with true superstars...than reaching his enormous potential.
And how does Ant seem to think he is going to get to same level as a James and a Davis? Seemingly by playing lax defense and being a complete ball hog on offense. and whining to the refs every time he didn't get a foul call. Where was the beautiful ball movement and sharing we saw in preseason? Instead we saw Ant using up 3/4 of the shot clock dribbling while his teammates stood around. There was a bright spot late in the 4th quarter when Ant started out 3 consecutive possessions by ball stopping with me yelling at the screen, but then drawing the double team and finding an open man. But Reddick (who I think may end up being a very good coach) reacted by telling his guys not to double team.
Every year this board has a whipping boy. Barrea, Nowell, DLo...just three of the suspects. But it's a lot more serious when the whipping boy is the guy who should be by far our most valuable player. Fortunately this team has several veterans with gravitas...Conley, Randle, Gobert, even Ingles. Whether they get in Ant's face and teach him how to be a winner, and whether he chooses to listen to them, might be the key to this team's ceiling this year.
What's it gonna be, Ant?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if we didn't win with him, I don't think it would bother some of you guys. Don't overvalue character. Unless one of his baby moms is your sister, what he does in his private time shouldn't bother you til it directly affects the team and it hasn't.
A whipping boy is a whipping boy if you choose to make him one. You've chosen to make Ant that.
Re: Kekgeek grades G1 vs lakers
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:50 am
by TheFuture
WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:36 am
Jaden's leading the league in fouls.
A couple were bullshit, but I saw him as the only one trying to get back in transition many times. He got stuck on an island for 2 of them.
Re: Kekgeek grades G1 vs lakers
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:58 am
by TheFuture
WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:50 am
FNG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 8:22 am
thedoper wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 12:05 am
Yeah it was easy to appreciate his bravado but its teetering on the edge of delusion lacking character. He clearly had a rough history and is resilient but Im not sure how he will handle superstardom. Im a bit concerned too.
I thought I might be alone on this island, so I'm happy to have some company on the "concerned about Ant" train. Well, not entirely happy. Is Ant a remarkably talented basketball player? Of course...he deserves most of the national accolades he is getting. But it's his character that concerns me. I listened to Brit Robson raving about Ant's character on Dane Moore's recent pod, and I said out loud "What???". Not only the continuing dalliances with various women, there are also the occasional unfortunate tweets that he has to walk back. But his endearing childlike personality seems to save him over and over again. Not with me...I have real concerns that someone like Ant has the type of character to lead a team to a championship.
The word I used last year when I expressed my concerns was "gravitas". The great ones have it, and Ant doesn't. At least not yet. I found myself contrasting Ant's on-court behavior last night with two HOFers on the court with him...Davis and LeBron. They are all business out there and focused on one thing...winning. (Well, other than LeBron's need to get his son on the court with him for a couple minutes, but I'm not going to rip a dedicated dad). In contrast, Ant seems more concerned with his fame and rubbing shoulders with great ones than playing winning basketball. Did you see him taking every opportunity to chat during the game with his Olympic teammates? My favorite moment was when Davis got in his face. It was almost like Brow was saying "Hey, we were teammates and buddies last summer, but we are mortal enemies right now". That's the attitude I want from Ant. But my fear is he is much more into the NBA lifestyle...banging chicks and hobnobbing with true superstars...than reaching his enormous potential.
And how does Ant seem to think he is going to get to same level as a James and a Davis? Seemingly by playing lax defense and being a complete ball hog on offense. and whining to the refs every time he didn't get a foul call. Where was the beautiful ball movement and sharing we saw in preseason? Instead we saw Ant using up 3/4 of the shot clock dribbling while his teammates stood around. There was a bright spot late in the 4th quarter when Ant started out 3 consecutive possessions by ball stopping with me yelling at the screen, but then drawing the double team and finding an open man. But Reddick (who I think may end up being a very good coach) reacted by telling his guys not to double team.
Every year this board has a whipping boy. Barrea, Nowell, DLo...just three of the suspects. But it's a lot more serious when the whipping boy is the guy who should be by far our most valuable player. Fortunately this team has several veterans with gravitas...Conley, Randle, Gobert, even Ingles. Whether they get in Ant's face and teach him how to be a winner, and whether he chooses to listen to them, might be the key to this team's ceiling this year.
What's it gonna be, Ant?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if we didn't win with him, I don't think it would bother some of you guys. Don't overvalue character. Unless one of his baby moms is your sister, what he does in his private time shouldn't bother you til it directly affects the team and it hasn't.
A whipping boy is a whipping boy if you choose to make him one. You've chosen to make Ant that.
Yeah, I agree. He can have 30 kids this year for all I care. Not my $, not my life, not my morals. He's not my brother or family, he's not my friend, and like you said - it isn't with or to my sister/family/friend.
He is a basketball player for a team I watch for my entertainment. And he is entertaining and a good player on the court, and by all accounts a good teammate who wants to be here and bring success to MN. He hasn't shown to be slowing down in that regard. I don't give two shits about how he runs his life off the court.
Re: Kekgeek grades G1 vs lakers
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:37 am
by Q-is-here
60WinTim wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 11:49 pm
Is F- a thing?!? Conley, -22 in 20 minutes. He was bad, and it really bore out in the numbers.
Yeah, you never know with a guy entering his late 30s. At some point, they are just plain cooked and the falloff isn't gradual, but sudden. It's too early to know if that's what's happened with Conley, but Father Time looms and last night was pretty damn awful.
Re: Kekgeek grades G1 vs lakers
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:44 am
by rapsuperstar31
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:37 am
60WinTim wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 11:49 pm
Is F- a thing?!? Conley, -22 in 20 minutes. He was bad, and it really bore out in the numbers.
Yeah, you never know with a guy entering his late 30s. At some point, they are just plain cooked and the falloff isn't gradual, but sudden. It's too early to know if that's what's happened with Conley, but Father Time looms and last night was pretty damn awful.
I think it's always a worry with older players, that this is the year the wheels fall off players. Last season just looking back at game 3 against Atlanta when everyone was in full panic mode after we blew a 30 point lead and lost. Conley shot 2-9 in that game and was a -11 and everyone was worried that Conley was toast as Murray just killed us. Conley bounced back and had his best 3pt shooting season of his career. Let's hope more good games are to come, and this isn't the year the wheels fall off for him.
Re: Kekgeek grades G1 vs lakers
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:45 am
by WildWolf2813
the idea of depth is realizing that you don't have to let everyone play through their struggles hoping it turns around. Unless you're Ant or Rudy, how much rope do you truly deserve?
Re: Kekgeek grades G1 vs lakers
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2024 11:00 am
by Wolvesfan21
TheFuture wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:58 am
WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:50 am
FNG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 8:22 am
I thought I might be alone on this island, so I'm happy to have some company on the "concerned about Ant" train. Well, not entirely happy. Is Ant a remarkably talented basketball player? Of course...he deserves most of the national accolades he is getting. But it's his character that concerns me. I listened to Brit Robson raving about Ant's character on Dane Moore's recent pod, and I said out loud "What???". Not only the continuing dalliances with various women, there are also the occasional unfortunate tweets that he has to walk back. But his endearing childlike personality seems to save him over and over again. Not with me...I have real concerns that someone like Ant has the type of character to lead a team to a championship.
The word I used last year when I expressed my concerns was "gravitas". The great ones have it, and Ant doesn't. At least not yet. I found myself contrasting Ant's on-court behavior last night with two HOFers on the court with him...Davis and LeBron. They are all business out there and focused on one thing...winning. (Well, other than LeBron's need to get his son on the court with him for a couple minutes, but I'm not going to rip a dedicated dad). In contrast, Ant seems more concerned with his fame and rubbing shoulders with great ones than playing winning basketball. Did you see him taking every opportunity to chat during the game with his Olympic teammates? My favorite moment was when Davis got in his face. It was almost like Brow was saying "Hey, we were teammates and buddies last summer, but we are mortal enemies right now". That's the attitude I want from Ant. But my fear is he is much more into the NBA lifestyle...banging chicks and hobnobbing with true superstars...than reaching his enormous potential.
And how does Ant seem to think he is going to get to same level as a James and a Davis? Seemingly by playing lax defense and being a complete ball hog on offense. and whining to the refs every time he didn't get a foul call. Where was the beautiful ball movement and sharing we saw in preseason? Instead we saw Ant using up 3/4 of the shot clock dribbling while his teammates stood around. There was a bright spot late in the 4th quarter when Ant started out 3 consecutive possessions by ball stopping with me yelling at the screen, but then drawing the double team and finding an open man. But Reddick (who I think may end up being a very good coach) reacted by telling his guys not to double team.
Every year this board has a whipping boy. Barrea, Nowell, DLo...just three of the suspects. But it's a lot more serious when the whipping boy is the guy who should be by far our most valuable player. Fortunately this team has several veterans with gravitas...Conley, Randle, Gobert, even Ingles. Whether they get in Ant's face and teach him how to be a winner, and whether he chooses to listen to them, might be the key to this team's ceiling this year.
What's it gonna be, Ant?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if we didn't win with him, I don't think it would bother some of you guys. Don't overvalue character. Unless one of his baby moms is your sister, what he does in his private time shouldn't bother you til it directly affects the team and it hasn't.
A whipping boy is a whipping boy if you choose to make him one. You've chosen to make Ant that.
Yeah, I agree. He can have 30 kids this year for all I care. Not my $, not my life, not my morals. He's not my brother or family, he's not my friend, and like you said - it isn't with or to my sister/family/friend.
He is a basketball player for a team I watch for my entertainment. And he is entertaining and a good player on the court, and by all accounts a good teammate who wants to be here and bring success to MN. He hasn't shown to be slowing down in that regard. I don't give two shits about how he runs his life off the court.
My really only concern is how does his having tons kids with tons of women effect him on the court. Having that much noise / personal issues off the court can't be that healthy mentally. So far it doesn't seem to hurt him too much and he is rich enough to have people deal with that stuff for the most part. (trying not to be insensitive too but I know it comes across that way, but he also is putting himself in that situation) Maybe it's time to lock it down and focus on ball.
As far as this game. It's a C for me. I did like some of the passes he made which didn't ultimately lead to assists. He shot mediocre. Saw him get torched in transition defense (so did other Wolves though) several times. If he is the leader of the team though, You better be leading by example. Seeing LeBron just run by him and wave his hand for a few seconds before the layup dunk was just atrocious.
Re: Kekgeek grades G1 vs lakers
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2024 11:11 am
by davemang
Not sure if anyone watched the Netflix "Starting 5" doc, but I skimmed some of the Ant segments and it doesn't provide any comfort for those who are worried about his off-court issues. As a fan, most of the off court stuff doesn't prevent me from rooting for him, but at some point, it can become a distraction that affects his on-court play, team chemistry, contract negotiations etc (we got enough old timers that remember Latrell Sprewell and his "kids to feed"), which is where I do have some concern. He's had the same people in his circle since he was growing up and they're all older, so he basically just defers to them and seems to live in a sort of bubble. I think we see him stray when he's outside his bubble because his maturity has kinda been stunted by having people around him take care of everything.
For the grades, I'd put Rudy at an A, when he was matched up on Davis he held him to 5/12 shooting and was only responsible for 1 foul leading to 2 made FTs (47% TS vs 104% TS for the rest of the wolves guarding him). There were a couple buckets AD got while Gobert was trying to defend two in the drop because the guard got beat too, but it was mostly Randle/Naz getting wrecked by AD. I'd bump Randle down to a D- or F I think. He had a couple of nice plays he made for others on a couple of early game possessions, but he gave 0 effort boxing out or on defense.