Ant

[thedoper]

Of course Ant is our best player. I'm just betting he doesn't have the goods to win a championship, and that's all I care about.

This board is always talking about who was good, who sucked after every game. It doesn't matter, did we win or not? I could care less if player X,Y, or Z had a good game, wins and losses are what matters.

Its a challenging league. I think him leading a team to a WCF at is a very positive sign. I find it hard to believe that they cant retool a team around him to match or surpass that. But right now at 23, I would agree with anyone that say there are deficiencies in his ability to be a lead dog on a championship team. But in comparison to most 23 year old greats, Im not panicking yet.

[FNG]

Of course Ant is our best player. I'm just betting he doesn't have the goods to win a championship, and that's all I care about.

This board is always talking about who was good, who sucked after every game. It doesn't matter, did we win or not? I could care less if player X,Y, or Z had a good game, wins and losses are what matters.

I agree that wins and losses are what matters. I don't agree that Ant is our best player.

I think that Ant is our most exciting player. I think he is our highest scorer. I think he has the highest ceiling on our roster. I think he is the face of our franchise...i.e. the player most fans think of when they think of the Timberwolves. But when I look at analytical stats that define overall greatness and lead to winning, Ant is not our best player. To me a "best player" on a team shows up as a leader in all or most analytical stats that I think matter. Take SGA, for instance...clearly the best player on the team favored to win our division. Like Ant, he leads his team in scoring and is the face of his franchise. But look how he ranks on his team in deep analytical stats (rotation players only):

Net rating: 18 (1st)
VORP: 1.6 (1st)
WS/48: .264 (1st)
Exp wins: +18 (1st)
on/off +10.3 (2nd)

Now compare that to Ant, our highest scorer:

Net rating: 0 (6th)
VORP: .7 (1st)
WS/48: .120 (4th)
Exp wins +12 (4th)
on/off +4.9 (4th)

Pretty dramatic difference, huh? So if highlight moments and PPG are your most important criteria, then you can conclude Ant is our best player. But if you value criteria that take into count far more than these two factors, Ant looks more like our 4th best player. Why does he rank so low in the deep analytics? I think it's because of his occasional defensive lapses, and because while he scores very efficiently, he does little else to help our offense...he seldom does an effective screen, his passes are often lazy and/or off the mark, and he turns the ball over almost as often as he assists (not acceptable for a guard).

The Wolves still might be successful this year, because I still think we are the deepest team in the Association...having 8 players that could start for most teams is a huge asset. But I don't think we are going to challenge for a chip until Ant establishes himself as an SGA-like best player. The silver lining: SGA is 26, and Ant only 23. When SGA was 23, his analytical stats were not nearly as glowing as they are now. If Ant can continue to progress as he has during his first five seasons, he may truly become a star in a couple years. I still think he will. But this season, it will have to be a team effort if we want to challenge in a very tough conference.

[Wolvesfan21]

Of course Ant is our best player. I'm just betting he doesn't have the goods to win a championship, and that's all I care about.

This board is always talking about who was good, who sucked after every game. It doesn't matter, did we win or not? I could care less if player X,Y, or Z had a good game, wins and losses are what matters.

I agree that wins and losses are what matters. I don't agree that Ant is our best player.

I think that Ant is our most exciting player. I think he is our highest scorer. I think he has the highest ceiling on our roster. I think he is the face of our franchise...i.e. the player most fans think of when they think of the Timberwolves. But when I look at analytical stats that define overall greatness and lead to winning, Ant is not our best player. To me a "best player" on a team shows up as a leader in all or most analytical stats that I think matter. Take SGA, for instance...clearly the best player on the team favored to win our division. Like Ant, he leads his team in scoring and is the face of his franchise. But look how he ranks on his team in deep analytical stats (rotation players only):

Net rating: 18 (1st)
VORP: 1.6 (1st)
WS/48: .264 (1st)
Exp wins: +18 (1st)
on/off +10.3 (2nd)

Now compare that to Ant, our highest scorer:

Net rating: 0 (6th)
VORP: .7 (1st)
WS/48: .120 (4th)
Exp wins +12 (4th)
on/off +4.9 (4th)

Pretty dramatic difference, huh? So if highlight moments and PPG are your most important criteria, then you can conclude Ant is our best player. But if you value criteria that take into count far more than these two factors, Ant looks more like our 4th best player. Why does he rank so low in the deep analytics? I think it's because of his occasional defensive lapses, and because while he scores very efficiently, he does little else to help our offense...he seldom does an effective screen, his passes are often lazy and/or off the mark, and he turns the ball over almost as often as he assists (not acceptable for a guard).

The Wolves still might be successful this year, because I still think we are the deepest team in the Association...having 8 players that could start for most teams is a huge asset. But I don't think we are going to challenge for a chip until Ant establishes himself as an SGA-like best player. The silver lining: SGA is 26, and Ant only 23. When SGA was 23, his analytical stats were not nearly as glowing as they are now. If Ant can continue to progress as he has during his first five seasons, he may truly become a star in a couple years. I still think he will. But this season, it will have to be a team effort if we want to challenge in a very tough conference.

Ants level also substantially raises in the playoffs when the games really matter (scores about 5 more PPG on avg in the playoffs). He seems to care more about the others getting theirs versus him maybe taking over. Like how many games does Ant have 2 or 4 points at Half? What is Ants career high? It's 51 last April when KAT was hurt. Is this a fault? IDK maybe a little.

Just for reference I looked up Jordan had 31 career games over 50. 10 prior to age 25. Context matters though too. Jordan was far better and more athletic then the avg NBA player back then (could guys like Cartwright and Lambeer play now? lol). But defense could also be more physical too (tougher to score). But Jordan was the primary scorer too on offense especially early on in his career so he was forced to carry the team. Ant doesn't need to carry the team night in and out with others who can hoop too.

I do think Ant takes regular season games lightly. Some more then others. So bottom, I think that effects the stats in the end.

[Coolbreeze44]

I don't think he takes regular season games lightly. He suits up every night even if he's banged up. I DO believe his off court activities affect his performance from time to time. Need him to grow up in a hurry.

[Wolvesfan21]

I don't think he takes regular season games lightly. He suits up every night even if he's banged up. I DO believe his off court activities affect his performance from time to time. Need him to grow up in a hurry.

Have you watched him in the playoffs versus the regular season (most regular season games)? I looked up other stars and Luka and Kobe both had seven 50 point games prior to age 25. Again Ant at 23 is at one. He doesn't usually come out guns blazing from the tip (unlike playoff games). I would bet a lot of money his second half scoring is quite a bit higher then first half. He likes to "take over" in the 4th.

[Coolbreeze44]

I don't think he takes regular season games lightly. He suits up every night even if he's banged up. I DO believe his off court activities affect his performance from time to time. Need him to grow up in a hurry.

Have you watched him in the playoffs versus the regular season (most regular season games)? I looked up other stars and Luka and Kobe both had seven 50 point games prior to age 25. Again Ant at 23 is at one. He doesn't usually come out guns blazing from the tip (unlike playoff games). I would bet a lot of money his second half scoring is quite a bit higher then first half. He likes to "take over" in the 4th.

I watched him in the Dallas series last year and couldn't believe how much his game fell off from the previous rounds.

[Wolvesfan21]

I don't think he takes regular season games lightly. He suits up every night even if he's banged up. I DO believe his off court activities affect his performance from time to time. Need him to grow up in a hurry.

Have you watched him in the playoffs versus the regular season (most regular season games)? I looked up other stars and Luka and Kobe both had seven 50 point games prior to age 25. Again Ant at 23 is at one. He doesn't usually come out guns blazing from the tip (unlike playoff games). I would bet a lot of money his second half scoring is quite a bit higher then first half. He likes to "take over" in the 4th.

I watched him in the Dallas series last year and couldn't believe how much his game fell off from the previous rounds.

So your theory is he was banging rando sluts every night after the club when he should be getting rest? I thought the bruises (him landing hard on his hip) and long season simply made him run out of gas. They put a ton of effort into beating the Nuggets (game 7 down 20), while Dallas came in fresh after several days off.

Ant did look tremendously tired (for that series). IDK exactly what the issue was.

[FNG]

Have you watched him in the playoffs versus the regular season (most regular season games)? I looked up other stars and Luka and Kobe both had seven 50 point games prior to age 25. Again Ant at 23 is at one. He doesn't usually come out guns blazing from the tip (unlike playoff games). I would bet a lot of money his second half scoring is quite a bit higher then first half. He likes to "take over" in the 4th.

I watched him in the Dallas series last year and couldn't believe how much his game fell off from the previous rounds.

So your theory is he was banging rando sluts every night after the club when he should be getting rest? I thought the bruises (him landing hard on his hip) and long season simply made him run out of gas. They put a ton of effort into beating the Nuggets (game 7 down 20), while Dallas came in fresh after several days off.

Ant did look tremendously tired (for that series). IDK exactly what the issue was.

Of course none of us knows why Ant seemed so tired in the playoffs, or why he so often doesn't seem ready to play in afternoon games. Is he out in the clubs every night when he is out of town and away from the constraints of his #1 baby mama? We don't know. But I guess there is some fetal evidence that his chosen out of town activity isn't curling up in bed at 9pm with a good book . Anyway, we can all agree that he is our most talented player, and hope that someday he reaches his very high ceiling.

[Coolbreeze44]

I watched him in the Dallas series last year and couldn't believe how much his game fell off from the previous rounds.

So your theory is he was banging rando sluts every night after the club when he should be getting rest? I thought the bruises (him landing hard on his hip) and long season simply made him run out of gas. They put a ton of effort into beating the Nuggets (game 7 down 20), while Dallas came in fresh after several days off.

Ant did look tremendously tired (for that series). IDK exactly what the issue was.

Of course none of us knows why Ant seemed so tired in the playoffs, or why he so often doesn't seem ready to play in afternoon games. Is he out in the clubs every night when he is out of town and away from the constraints of his #1 baby mama? We don't know. But I guess there is some fetal evidence that his chosen out of town activity isn't curling up in bed at 9pm with a good book . Anyway, we can all agree that he is our most talented player, and hope that someday he reaches his very high ceiling.

Hahahahahaha, yeah we don't know of course what he's doing. But I know a 31 year old Kyrie Irving ran circles around him all series long. I don't buy it was the hip or back ailing him, physically he seemed fine. I think at this point in his career he's part Kobe, part Shawn Kemp, and part Michael Beasley. As the great Meat Loaf once said, two out of three IS bad.