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Re: Wolves 2.0
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:23 am
by Coolbreeze44
kekgeek wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 11:50 pm
Here is my tier list.
Untouchable:
Ant: with Wemby blood clots I honestly don’t know if I would trade Ant straight up for anyone in the league
Only trading if I’m getting an young All Star caliber player back
Jaden
Naz
Would include in a blockbuster to make salary work but don’t think we get fair value back
Rudy
Donte
Will Not Get fair value back
Naw
Clark
High on their future but would include on trying to get a all star caliber player (like Durant)
Dilly
TSJ
Bye bye
Randle (he just does not fit here long term)
Garza
Salary filler but good mojo
Conley
Ingles
Their contracts are more valuable than the player
Miller
Minott
Would you trade Ant for Cooper Flagg? How about the Joker?
Re: Wolves 2.0
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 8:26 am
by FNG
Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:23 am
kekgeek wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 11:50 pm
Here is my tier list.
Untouchable:
Ant: with Wemby blood clots I honestly don’t know if I would trade Ant straight up for anyone in the league
Only trading if I’m getting an young All Star caliber player back
Jaden
Naz
Would include in a blockbuster to make salary work but don’t think we get fair value back
Rudy
Donte
Will Not Get fair value back
Naw
Clark
High on their future but would include on trying to get a all star caliber player (like Durant)
Dilly
TSJ
Bye bye
Randle (he just does not fit here long term)
Garza
Salary filler but good mojo
Conley
Ingles
Their contracts are more valuable than the player
Miller
Minott
Would you trade Ant for Cooper Flagg? How about the Joker?
No to Flagg...we don't know yet how good he will be at the next level. But I would trade Ant for Joker or Giannis straight up. And I would trade Ant and a pick for Shai or Luka, But the Nugs, Bucks, Thunder and Lakers would not. Still, it's nice to have a young player on our team that I would only give up for a handful of players.
Re: Wolves 2.0
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 8:56 am
by Q-is-here
FNG wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 8:26 am
Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:23 am
kekgeek wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 11:50 pm
Here is my tier list.
Untouchable:
Ant: with Wemby blood clots I honestly don’t know if I would trade Ant straight up for anyone in the league
Only trading if I’m getting an young All Star caliber player back
Jaden
Naz
Would include in a blockbuster to make salary work but don’t think we get fair value back
Rudy
Donte
Will Not Get fair value back
Naw
Clark
High on their future but would include on trying to get a all star caliber player (like Durant)
Dilly
TSJ
Bye bye
Randle (he just does not fit here long term)
Garza
Salary filler but good mojo
Conley
Ingles
Their contracts are more valuable than the player
Miller
Minott
Would you trade Ant for Cooper Flagg? How about the Joker?
No to Flagg...we don't know yet how good he will be at the next level.
But I would trade Ant for Joker or Giannis straight up. And I would trade Ant and a pick for Shai or Luka, But the Nugs, Bucks, Thunder and Lakers would not. Still, it's nice to have a young player on our team that I would only give up for a handful of players.
It's one thing to mock up this stuff in a hypothetical exercise. It's another to actually do it. I think the broader fanbase needs to be considered in such trades and you simply don't trade away an emerging star that your team drafted and nurtured until his tenure has run its course, meaning it becomes clear that the team just can't build a consistent winner around him. That's why the Luka trade was so shocking to Dallas fans. They just went to the Finals and he's still so young!
So on paper, yes, swapping out Ant for SGA, Jokic, or Giannis would improve our team, but it's no guarantee that we make the Finals, and like you said, those franchises probably wouldn't do it either, although I do wonder if the Giannis/Milwaukee marriage is close to running its course.
The practical reality is that we're "stuck" with Ant, flaws and all. Connelly needs to do everything he can to surround him with players that compliment his strengths and help cover his weaknesses. The good news is that I think we already have 70-80% of the ingredients we need to build a consistent winner that is capable of making deep playoff runs with Ant as the best player.
Re: Wolves 2.0
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:47 pm
by kekgeek
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 8:56 am
FNG wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 8:26 am
Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:23 am
Would you trade Ant for Cooper Flagg? How about the Joker?
No to Flagg...we don't know yet how good he will be at the next level.
But I would trade Ant for Joker or Giannis straight up. And I would trade Ant and a pick for Shai or Luka, But the Nugs, Bucks, Thunder and Lakers would not. Still, it's nice to have a young player on our team that I would only give up for a handful of players.
It's one thing to mock up this stuff in a hypothetical exercise. It's another to actually do it. I think the broader fanbase needs to be considered in such trades and you simply don't trade away an emerging star that your team drafted and nurtured until his tenure has run its course, meaning it becomes clear that the team just can't build a consistent winner around him. That's why the Luka trade was so shocking to Dallas fans. They just went to the Finals and he's still so young!
So on paper, yes, swapping out Ant for SGA, Jokic, or Giannis would improve our team, but it's no guarantee that we make the Finals, and like you said, those franchises probably wouldn't do it either, although I do wonder if the Giannis/Milwaukee marriage is close to running its course.
The practical reality is that we're "stuck" with Ant, flaws and all. Connelly needs to do everything he can to surround him with players that compliment his strengths and help cover his weaknesses. The good news is that I think we already have 70-80% of the ingredients we need to build a consistent winner that is capable of making deep playoff runs with Ant as the best player.
I think Jokic and Giannis are better than Ant but with age involved I would pick Ant (I think it’s really close with Jokic and Ant)
Re: Wolves 2.0
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:30 pm
by Wolvesfan21
kekgeek wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:47 pm
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 8:56 am
FNG wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 8:26 am
No to Flagg...we don't know yet how good he will be at the next level.
But I would trade Ant for Joker or Giannis straight up. And I would trade Ant and a pick for Shai or Luka, But the Nugs, Bucks, Thunder and Lakers would not. Still, it's nice to have a young player on our team that I would only give up for a handful of players.
It's one thing to mock up this stuff in a hypothetical exercise. It's another to actually do it. I think the broader fanbase needs to be considered in such trades and you simply don't trade away an emerging star that your team drafted and nurtured until his tenure has run its course, meaning it becomes clear that the team just can't build a consistent winner around him. That's why the Luka trade was so shocking to Dallas fans. They just went to the Finals and he's still so young!
So on paper, yes, swapping out Ant for SGA, Jokic, or Giannis would improve our team, but it's no guarantee that we make the Finals, and like you said, those franchises probably wouldn't do it either, although I do wonder if the Giannis/Milwaukee marriage is close to running its course.
The practical reality is that we're "stuck" with Ant, flaws and all. Connelly needs to do everything he can to surround him with players that compliment his strengths and help cover his weaknesses. The good news is that I think we already have 70-80% of the ingredients we need to build a consistent winner that is capable of making deep playoff runs with Ant as the best player.
I think Jokic and Giannis are better than Ant but with age involved I would pick Ant (I think it’s really close with Jokic and Ant)
I would think the Bucks actually would trade Giannis for Ant considering their chances to win right now and the next few years is pretty slim. I wouldn't do it though. I wouldn't trade Ant for anyone right now. Doesn't mean he's the best, his potential in 3-5 years is just way higher so he has the chance to be the best. So the chance to win in the long term is much greater. I also don't think a swap for Giannis makes us a top contender either. I think the Celts, Cavs and even OKC are for sure a notch above even with Giannis.
Re: Wolves 2.0
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:31 pm
by Q-is-here
kekgeek wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:47 pm
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 8:56 am
FNG wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 8:26 am
No to Flagg...we don't know yet how good he will be at the next level.
But I would trade Ant for Joker or Giannis straight up. And I would trade Ant and a pick for Shai or Luka, But the Nugs, Bucks, Thunder and Lakers would not. Still, it's nice to have a young player on our team that I would only give up for a handful of players.
It's one thing to mock up this stuff in a hypothetical exercise. It's another to actually do it. I think the broader fanbase needs to be considered in such trades and you simply don't trade away an emerging star that your team drafted and nurtured until his tenure has run its course, meaning it becomes clear that the team just can't build a consistent winner around him. That's why the Luka trade was so shocking to Dallas fans. They just went to the Finals and he's still so young!
So on paper, yes, swapping out Ant for SGA, Jokic, or Giannis would improve our team, but it's no guarantee that we make the Finals, and like you said, those franchises probably wouldn't do it either, although I do wonder if the Giannis/Milwaukee marriage is close to running its course.
The practical reality is that we're "stuck" with Ant, flaws and all. Connelly needs to do everything he can to surround him with players that compliment his strengths and help cover his weaknesses. The good news is that I think we already have 70-80% of the ingredients we need to build a consistent winner that is capable of making deep playoff runs with Ant as the best player.
I think Jokic and Giannis are better than Ant but with age involved I would pick Ant (I think it’s really close with Jokic and Ant)
Well, going back to playing in the pretend world since this will never happen, I would absolutely trade Ant for Jokic. Jokic hasn't even peaked yet or just reached it this year, as he is having the best season of his career. And I think he can keep producing like this for at least another four or five seasons.
Giannis on the other hand might be past his peak years. He's still one of the best players in the NBA, but the 3-point shooting and free throw shooting is getting worse, not better. I'm just not confident he will still be a better player than Ant in two or three years.
Re: Wolves 2.0
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 3:11 pm
by FNG
I loved what we saw from the youngsters Monday night, and Ant has really stepped up his game this season also. But as much as I love what TJ and Clark bring, I don't see either of them as a great fit with Ant. What was so fun about the comeback Monday was that we saw a pace of play totally different than what we are used to seeing with this version of the Wolves. Ant is probably the most athletic player on the team (witness his game saving block on SGA), but he seldom pushes the pace and seems to prefer to get into a half court set with him on the ball at the top of the key. He fits well with Rudy because Rudy is an elite screener and also isn't a guy who pushes the pace. And Mike is another guy who favors a more deliberate offensive style. He also fits well with Ant because he knows how to get open in the corners and is an efficient 3-point shooter if Ant finds him (and Ant is getting better at this). But the new kids want to run, and so do Jaden and Naz (and to some extent NAW)...that's why the end of the 4th quarter and OT were so much fun Monday night. Our offense was totally up tempo, and we're not used to seeing anything close to that when Rudy, Mike and Ant are closing out games. And (ridiculously small sample size alert) the up tempo offense seemed to work better than the end of game debacles we have experienced often this season.
So while I don't think Ant is good for the new kids, I also don't think they are good for him. Ant is showing some improvement this season in kicking the ball to open shooters, and he needs good 3-point shooters like Mike, Naz, NAW and Donte out there who can be counted on to make the shot. And while some may disagree, I think the 3-point ceiling for TJ and Clark is very low. Neither was very proficient at the shorter college distance (both under 35%...not good for college), and I don't like the shooting form of either of them. Both of them passed up open 3-point looks on Monday and seemed not too confident about their shot.
The solution would be for Ant to change his preferred style of play and start to push the pace a lot more. But you don't generally ask your star to change his game to match his teammates...it's the other way around. But with his athleticism, it could be really fun to watch him run the court with the young guys (and Naz, Jaden and Donte). I'm a little skeptical about this happening though, and that's why I would rather see elite shooters who can thrive in a half court offense out there with Ant instead of TJ and Clark.
Re: Wolves 2.0
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 4:46 pm
by Wolvesfan21
FNG wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 3:11 pm
I loved what we saw from the youngsters Monday night, and Ant has really stepped up his game this season also. But as much as I love what TJ and Clark bring, I don't see either of them as a great fit with Ant. What was so fun about the comeback Monday was that we saw a pace of play totally different than what we are used to seeing with this version of the Wolves. Ant is probably the most athletic player on the team (witness his game saving block on SGA), but he seldom pushes the pace and seems to prefer to get into a half court set with him on the ball at the top of the key. He fits well with Rudy because Rudy is an elite screener and also isn't a guy who pushes the pace. And Mike is another guy who favors a more deliberate offensive style. He also fits well with Ant because he knows how to get open in the corners and is an efficient 3-point shooter if Ant finds him (and Ant is getting better at this). But the new kids want to run, and so do Jaden and Naz (and to some extent NAW)...that's why the end of the 4th quarter and OT were so much fun Monday night. Our offense was totally up tempo, and we're not used to seeing anything close to that when Rudy, Mike and Ant are closing out games. And (ridiculously small sample size alert) the up tempo offense seemed to work better than the end of game debacles we have experienced often this season.
So while I don't think Ant is good for the new kids, I also don't think they are good for him. Ant is showing some improvement this season in kicking the ball to open shooters, and he needs good 3-point shooters like Mike, Naz, NAW and Donte out there who can be counted on to make the shot. And while some may disagree, I think the 3-point ceiling for TJ and Clark is very low. Neither was very proficient at the shorter college distance (both under 35%...not good for college), and I don't like the shooting form of either of them. Both of them passed up open 3-point looks on Monday and seemed not too confident about their shot.
The solution would be for Ant to change his preferred style of play and start to push the pace a lot more. But you don't generally ask your star to change his game to match his teammates...it's the other way around. But with his athleticism, it could be really fun to watch him run the court with the young guys (and Naz, Jaden and Donte). I'm a little skeptical about this happening though, and that's why I would rather see elite shooters who can thrive in a half court offense out there with Ant instead of TJ and Clark.
I think that seeing and playing with those youngsters is EXACTLY what Ant needs. He's going to see how effective that aggression is in developing easy buckets. You're right for sure, Ant doesn't push the ball hardly at all. That has been my own pet peeve so to speak, where he could really start to kill defenses. Because he is so great at driving and finishing. Just imagine a little TSJ type of aggression of him going downhill more (TSJ doesn't get the attention or coverage but I am more speaking about not letting the defense get back), beat them down the floor.
At some point it just has to rub off on him I think. Hey easy points, lets run.
Re: Wolves 2.0
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 6:53 pm
by Coolbreeze44
In my opinion, opening up the offense by pushing the pace would benefit the overall game of Ant. He's 23, probably the most athletic player in the league, and not built to play in a box. When Rudy isn't on the floor we should fly up and down the court. I notice when Ant is bringing the ball up, the players running down floor don't even look for a pass that they know rarely comes. I'm not blaming Ant as much as I'm saying we just need to speed things up to take advantage of our roster. Better for Ant to adjust to the younger guys he's going to be playing with for a long time, than the old guard on the way out.
Re: Wolves 2.0
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 10:39 pm
by Lipoli390
Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 6:53 pm
In my opinion, opening up the offense by pushing the pace would benefit the overall game of Ant. He's 23, probably the most athletic player in the league, and not built to play in a box. When Rudy isn't on the floor we should fly up and down the court. I notice when Ant is bringing the ball up, the players running down floor don't even look for a pass that they know rarely comes. I'm not blaming Ant as much as I'm saying we just need to speed things up to take advantage of our roster. Better for Ant to adjust to the younger guys he's going to be playing with for a long time, than the old guard on the way out.
I agree, Cool.