Stats through 4 SL games

[Monster]

Thanks for posting this Monster. RealGM probably has the best stats stuff out there in terms of covering all the bases with a player all in one place - summer league, NCAA, NBA, etc.

I like to look at stats on a per 36 minute basis since it equalizes everyone and also gives you a feel for the stats in the context of a full-time starter. TJ's jump off the page even more, putting up 27 pts/7 rebs/6 assts per 36 minutes along with a couple of steals and great shooting/free throw numbers. The playmaking for others and 3-point shot both look improved. He could be really, really good and I just have a really hard time seeing him play less than 20 MPG next season, with that being the absolute floor on his minutes.

One of the most impressive stats with Beringer is the asst:To ratio. In the absence of being able to just watch someone play, it's a pretty good stat for evaluating BBIQ and decision making. He is almost at a 2:1 assist;TO ratio, which is really good for a Center. Just the perfect prospect to have in the Center pipeline given that most of our PFs (except when Jade plays PF) are defensively limited.

Yeah I think I might start using realgm more for stats going forward. The mobile site has really been stepped up and it's much easier to view everything. I also like their draft picks owed page it's much more clear if a team has picks coming or going and it's easier to view as well.

I also checked out the per 36 and I was kinda shocked at TSJs 3 point volume.

[60WinTim]

Thanks for posting this, Monster!

After being tucked up north for the past week, I've finally had a chance to catch up on the Summer League games. Here are some things I gleaned:

TSJ -- Between his play at the end of the year and in the playoffs, and now his expanded skillset on display this summer, he may be more impactful this coming season than NAW was last season! Let's face it, NAW was #8 on the totem pole of an 8-man rotation. TSJ may be higher on that totem pole this season. Heck, one could argue he would look good as a starter alongside ANT! So, given the Wolves continuity going into this new season, and TSJ potentially being an upgrade to NAW, it's reasonable to assume they will hit the ground running right out of the gate.

Beringer -- I had assumed he was an 18-year-old project that would not see the court except in garbage time. But his skillset, sans a jump shot, is farther along than I had expected. It's noteworthy they did not just play him at C, but gave him some PF minutes as well playing alongside Jesse. I doubt he sniffs the rotation to start the season, but he could see some regular minutes later on, especially when one of our bigs is out for a game. I was disappointed we did not draft Rasheer Fleming, but Beringer and Fleming are kind of duplicative. I can see why TC was only interested in one of them, and that was the one with more upside (e.g. younger and more athletic).

Clark -- I have confidence in Clark if his number gets called, but unlike TSJ, I did not see much new in his game.

Dilly -- His game is improving. I am not confident he is starter, at least in the upcoming season, but I expect his game to continue to improve. I am hopeful he earns regular minutes in the rotation.

Miller -- I think his game is improving as well. But I sure hope we don't have to rely on him as a rotational player. It will be interesting to see who is higher on the depth chart: Miller or Beringer.

Anyway, it's a bummer they didn't have a shot at winning Summer League. TSJ missing game 4 is the probably the biggest reason why. He seemed to have tweaked an ankle in game 3, thus resting in game 4. But overall, I feel pretty darn good about our roster and the upcoming season. Whoever the 14th man becomes is pretty irrelevant. The depth on this squad seems really good.

[Q-is-here]

Thanks for posting this, Monster!

After being tucked up north for the past week, I've finally had a chance to catch up on the Summer League games. Here are some things I gleaned:

TSJ -- Between his play at the end of the year and in the playoffs, and now his expanded skillset on display this summer, he may be more impactful this coming season than NAW was last season! Let's face it, NAW was #8 on the totem pole of an 8-man rotation. TSJ may be higher on that totem pole this season. Heck, one could argue he would look good as a starter alongside ANT! So, given the Wolves continuity going into this new season, and TSJ potentially being an upgrade to NAW, it's reasonable to assume they will hit the ground running right out of the gate.

Beringer -- I had assumed he was an 18-year-old project that would not see the court except in garbage time. But his skillset, sans a jump shot, is farther along than I had expected. It's noteworthy they did not just play him at C, but gave him some PF minutes as well playing alongside Jesse. I doubt he sniffs the rotation to start the season, but he could see some regular minutes later on, especially when one of our bigs is out for a game. I was disappointed we did not draft Rasheer Fleming, but Beringer and Fleming are kind of duplicative. I can see why TC was only interested in one of them, and that was the one with more upside (e.g. younger and more athletic).

Clark -- I have confidence in Clark if his number gets called, but unlike TSJ, I did not see much new in his game.

Dilly -- His game is improving. I am not confident he is starter, at least in the upcoming season, but I expect his game to continue to improve. I am hopeful he earns regular minutes in the rotation.

Miller -- I think his game is improving as well. But I sure hope we don't have to rely on him as a rotational player. It will be interesting to see who is higher on the depth chart: Miller or Beringer.

Anyway, it's a bummer they didn't have a shot at winning Summer League. TSJ missing game 4 is the probably the biggest reason why. He seemed to have tweaked an ankle in game 3, thus resting in game 4. But overall, I feel pretty darn good about our roster and the upcoming season. Whoever the 14th man becomes is pretty irrelevant. The depth on this squad seems really good.

I agree with your takes here Tim. Clark was interviewed in Game 5 by the announcing crew and he all but admitted that his main focus is to defend and let others do the sexy stuff. I think he's just one of these guys who knows exactly what he is and isn't really trying to expand beyond that but instead just improve within the context of his role. You need guys like that on the roster.

Here's the absolute dream.....That both Ant and Shannon improve enough on their ball handling and play making that having a true PG on the floor is optional for Finch. That would eliminate the hand-wringing over Mike's age and Dillingham's inexperience. Shannon really surprised me with his play making in Summer League, something he did not show a knack for in college. That just goes to show that older prospects can keep improving well into their 20s. We've gotta see it in real NBA action though, but I'm encouraged.

[Wolvesfan21]

Thanks for this. Monster. Not a very good shooting performance by our 4-0 SL team...kind of shows how dominant our defense was.

I don't think we will see much of the players we are interested in watching today. Vegas must not think many (or any) of our starters will play either, because we're only 3 1/2 point favorites over a winless Rockets team. I'm not a fan of resting guys in SL...they can get hurt almost as easily in practice, and you would think the coaches (and fans) would want to see what these guys can do in game situations.

I think it makes sense to let the others get run. You want to be a place that is able to sign the better FA's and give them a chance. If you don't let them show what they got then in the future others may say screw that place, yes it's slim any of them ever turn out, you never know when you may hit on one like Naz. So it makes sense to play them, even if none of these guys play meaningful minutes ever in the NBA. Be a team that says we'll give you a fair chance.

[Monster]

Thanks for posting this, Monster!

After being tucked up north for the past week, I've finally had a chance to catch up on the Summer League games. Here are some things I gleaned:

TSJ -- Between his play at the end of the year and in the playoffs, and now his expanded skillset on display this summer, he may be more impactful this coming season than NAW was last season! Let's face it, NAW was #8 on the totem pole of an 8-man rotation. TSJ may be higher on that totem pole this season. Heck, one could argue he would look good as a starter alongside ANT! So, given the Wolves continuity going into this new season, and TSJ potentially being an upgrade to NAW, it's reasonable to assume they will hit the ground running right out of the gate.

Beringer -- I had assumed he was an 18-year-old project that would not see the court except in garbage time. But his skillset, sans a jump shot, is farther along than I had expected. It's noteworthy they did not just play him at C, but gave him some PF minutes as well playing alongside Jesse. I doubt he sniffs the rotation to start the season, but he could see some regular minutes later on, especially when one of our bigs is out for a game. I was disappointed we did not draft Rasheer Fleming, but Beringer and Fleming are kind of duplicative. I can see why TC was only interested in one of them, and that was the one with more upside (e.g. younger and more athletic).

Clark -- I have confidence in Clark if his number gets called, but unlike TSJ, I did not see much new in his game.

Dilly -- His game is improving. I am not confident he is starter, at least in the upcoming season, but I expect his game to continue to improve. I am hopeful he earns regular minutes in the rotation.

Miller -- I think his game is improving as well. But I sure hope we don't have to rely on him as a rotational player. It will be interesting to see who is higher on the depth chart: Miller or Beringer.

Anyway, it's a bummer they didn't have a shot at winning Summer League. TSJ missing game 4 is the probably the biggest reason why. He seemed to have tweaked an ankle in game 3, thus resting in game 4. But overall, I feel pretty darn good about our roster and the upcoming season. Whoever the 14th man becomes is pretty irrelevant. The depth on this squad seems really good.

I agree with your takes here Tim. Clark was interviewed in Game 5 by the announcing crew and he all but admitted that his main focus is to defend and let others do the sexy stuff. I think he's just one of these guys who knows exactly what he is and isn't really trying to expand beyond that but instead just improve within the context of his role. You need guys like that on the roster.

Here's the absolute dream.....That both Ant and Shannon improve enough on their ball handling and play making that having a true PG on the floor is optional for Finch. That would eliminate the hand-wringing over Mike's age and Dillingham's inexperience. Shannon really surprised me with his play making in Summer League, something he did not show a knack for in college. That just goes to show that older prospects can keep improving well into their 20s. We've gotta see it in real NBA action though, but I'm encouraged.

Tim watching that Suns game I had a different take. Which player was the better prospect Leonard Miller or Fleming? I think they are much more comparable than Fleming and Beringer. The scouting reports on Fleming often talked about some issues with awareness on the defensive end of the ball and said he was limited on offense. He is less than a year younger than Miller. Heck the Wolves let Minott walk for nothing how did Fleming compare to Minott? All those guys have intruigijg physical profiles with some nice theoretical skills.

Q Clark at one point said that he does the things to be on the floor and get minutes and the other stuff will come. He said at one point his freshman year he played minutes as a 6'4" center. Jon K said in a recent podcast young players have looked at how NAW ended up developing into a key role player and took notice. I think Clark loves defense big time but I think he feels like he can develop other aspects of his game but isn't in a hurry to do so.

As for Shannon's play making in games I watched in college he did seem to make a lot of smart plays with the ball not forcing it. Was he driving and throwing lobs to bigs or whipping passes to wing players like in SL? No but Illinois was one of the best offensive teams in College basketball that year and TSJ was a big part of that. I wonder how many college guys have scored 23 ppg and only averaged 2 TOs a game? That's pretty good. He is one of those guys that actually got better bad got better playing in college. Weird. More players are gonna stay in school longer and it might actually benefit them and how talent in the game is developed. Not every guy figures it out after a couple years in college. There is some real buzz around TSJ at this point. I'll be thrilled if he takes that next step but I want to see him put it together before I get too excited. I think it's quite possible he does but I need to see it.

[Monster]

I spent a little time looking back at Leonard Miller.

I specifically watched some highlight videos looking at what he looked like physically the past 3 years. He probbaly has put on a little more wirght and muscle but not a ton which I think might end up being just fine. I don't think strength is a problem for him anyway. He has all the physical tools. 6'9.5" barefoot at the 2023 combine and a 7'2" wingspan. He is almost and inch taller than minor wish a nearly 3 longer wingspan. He and McDaniels are probably the same height since I think Jaden probably did drow a bit but Miller has a longer wingspan by 3 inches. He has about the same length as Garza but clearly a much better athlete. I know most of us already know this but it's worth revisiting that Miller has some physical characteristics going for him.

It's also worth remembering that while he had success with G-league ignite before that he hadn't played much high level basketball due to various factors including a wrist injury his senior year. He also had a big growth spurt. There could be some legit reasons he hasn't put things together yet. Now of course the question is will he put it together? Idk I saw some good signs of him doing that defensively and Kevin Hansen said he told Miller if he wanted to play in the NBA he needed to be able to play defense and then said he did it in the summer league. Watching him in G-league ignite I felt he was more of a big with some nifty perimeter skills. Now I'm leaning towards him being more of a wing/combo forward with big measurements. Either one is pretty valuable if he figures out how to play basketball.

On his shooting yes his 3 ball is kinda ugly still but he has made them in the G-league at a decent clip. One key thing is that he has been a fairly good FT shooter every year in the G-league espcilaly for someone his size. Vecine talked about him having very good touch when he did his draft writeup about him. I think that's probably still a thing. I think there might be some ability for him to finish in the paint in various ways which we have seen with various guys like Kyle anderson or Jaden can be pretty useful. I don't know if I see some sort of awesome upside for Miller but I could see him becoming a valued rotation piece which teams need especially if resigned for the right price. He is a guy that of the Wolves ever play with Pace would really fit in to that. I think there is a path for him to be worthwhile even if he doesnt hit 3's all that well. He has to be sole sort of asset on defense though. That's the question and while I saw some good signs in summer league that only goes so far.

I think the Wolves see something in him because they could have gone a different direction like drafting Fleming (or some other player) or keeping Minott or adding some sort of 2-way guy. They have him as their developmental PF right now. They have 2 more years before he is a FA. and right now an injury to either Naz or Randle and he could actually see some minutes. Before there was at least another player in front of him Garza or Minott or Anderson or Ingles. This year the Wing players (including McDaniels sliding to PF) could block him or maybe Beringer but it feels like there is a much more legit shot for him to get some minutes and we can hope he shows something if he gets a shot. I don't think he is gonna be down in Iowa much if any this year. I think he has pretty much done what he can down there u less they play him as more of a wing or something. Edwards Beringer Miller front court IN Iowa could be fun I suppose. Lol

I get some people don't care all that much about Miller at this point. I get that but teams need to get on guys and some don't figure it out after a couple years. Some guys don't. Some guys do and in some cases they turn into valuable players even if they aren't starters. Miller is a unique/flawed player so it's a little hard to see exaclry what he could be. I think for me it's starting to be more simple as him being a guy that can come in playbwith some energy get rebounds runnthe floor and here and there maybe do some other fun stuff while of course at times maybe make you yell at your TV. There can be a place for that type of guy. He turns 22 late November. He isn't wildly young but he is still over 3 years away from turning 25. There could still be some real growth there but it's mostly mental. Everything I've heard is that he is a good kid/guy so that's a positive.

Of course in a few months if Miller isn't making progress the Wolves will have at least one draft pick to select a possible replacement...if they don't need to use that pick on a guard. I'm looking forward to this season.

Edit: Fun fact Leonard's brother Emanual Miller is on a 2-way contact with the Bulls.

[Q-is-here]

I spent a little time looking back at Leonard Miller.

I specifically watched some highlight videos looking at what he looked like physically the past 3 years. He probbaly has put on a little more wirght and muscle but not a ton which I think might end up being just fine. I don't think strength is a problem for him anyway. He has all the physical tools. 6'9.5" barefoot at the 2023 combine and a 7'2" wingspan. He is almost and inch taller than minor wish a nearly 3 longer wingspan. He and McDaniels are probably the same height since I think Jaden probably did drow a bit but Miller has a longer wingspan by 3 inches. He has about the same length as Garza but clearly a much better athlete. I know most of us already know this but it's worth revisiting that Miller has some physical characteristics going for him.

It's also worth remembering that while he had success with G-league ignite before that he hadn't played much high level basketball due to various factors including a wrist injury his senior year. He also had a big growth spurt. There could be some legit reasons he hasn't put things together yet. Now of course the question is will he put it together? Idk I saw some good signs of him doing that defensively and Kevin Hansen said he told Miller if he wanted to play in the NBA he needed to be able to play defense and then said he did it in the summer league. Watching him in G-league ignite I felt he was more of a big with some nifty perimeter skills. Now I'm leaning towards him being more of a wing/combo forward with big measurements. Either one is pretty valuable if he figures out how to play basketball.

On his shooting yes his 3 ball is kinda ugly still but he has made them in the G-league at a decent clip. One key thing is that he has been a fairly good FT shooter every year in the G-league espcilaly for someone his size. Vecine talked about him having very good touch when he did his draft writeup about him. I think that's probably still a thing. I think there might be some ability for him to finish in the paint in various ways which we have seen with various guys like Kyle anderson or Jaden can be pretty useful. I don't know if I see some sort of awesome upside for Miller but I could see him becoming a valued rotation piece which teams need especially if resigned for the right price. He is a guy that of the Wolves ever play with Pace would really fit in to that. I think there is a path for him to be worthwhile even if he doesnt hit 3's all that well. He has to be sole sort of asset on defense though. That's the question and while I saw some good signs in summer league that only goes so far.

I think the Wolves see something in him because they could have gone a different direction like drafting Fleming (or some other player) or keeping Minott or adding some sort of 2-way guy. They have him as their developmental PF right now. They have 2 more years before he is a FA. and right now an injury to either Naz or Randle and he could actually see some minutes. Before there was at least another player in front of him Garza or Minott or Anderson or Ingles. This year the Wing players (including McDaniels sliding to PF) could block him or maybe Beringer but it feels like there is a much more legit shot for him to get some minutes and we can hope he shows something if he gets a shot. I don't think he is gonna be down in Iowa much if any this year. I think he has pretty much done what he can down there u less they play him as more of a wing or something. Edwards Beringer Miller front court IN Iowa could be fun I suppose. Lol

I get some people don't care all that much about Miller at this point. I get that but teams need to get on guys and some don't figure it out after a couple years. Some guys don't. Some guys do and in some cases they turn into valuable players even if they aren't starters. Miller is a unique/flawed player so it's a little hard to see exaclry what he could be. I think for me it's starting to be more simple as him being a guy that can come in playbwith some energy get rebounds runnthe floor and here and there maybe do some other fun stuff while of course at times maybe make you yell at your TV. There can be a place for that type of guy. He turns 22 late November. He isn't wildly young but he is still over 3 years away from turning 25. There could still be some real growth there but it's mostly mental. Everything I've heard is that he is a good kid/guy so that's a positive.

Of course in a few months if Miller isn't making progress the Wolves will have at least one draft pick to select a possible replacement...if they don't need to use that pick on a guard. I'm looking forward to this season.

Edit: Fun fact Leonard's brother Emanual Miller is on a 2-way contact with the Bulls.

My biggest observation on Miller from the two years he's been with the Wolves is that he is best utilized as a power forward. Every single time he's "looked pretty good", he is playing next to more of a pure defensive anchor type, whether it was Jesse Edwards in Iowa last season or Joan Beringer in summer league.

But guess who else looks pretty good as a PF playing next to a defensive Center? Julius Randle and Naz Reid.

And therein lies the problem with our bigs until we drafted Beringer. Literally only one of them was optimized as a Center and that's Rudy. Randle, Naz, and Jaden (to a degree) have created a logjam at PF that is difficult for Miller to overcome even if he has improved.

All of that being said, I agree that he should strive to be an "energy big" that rebounds, plays hard, and runs the floor. He's at his best in more of that Vando scrapper mold.