The importance of Rudy

[Wolvesfan21]

Great topic FNG

I would encourage us all to not let it devolve in a discussion about whether Rudy is or is not an elite defender. Let's work from the premise that FNGs two points are correct, and if they are what does that imply about the team's overall trajectory this season?

Because while I agree that Rudy is an elite or near elite defender, and the void of any replicable backup on the roster makes him extremely valuable to the team- I would like to interrogate what it is that makes him good on defense and why those strengths consistently present problems against good teams even going back to last year.

I'm not smart enough to have good answers to this questions myself, but I do have some observations.

1) Rudy is a really smart defender and that plus his size and instincts make it very tough for even good offenses to score on the wolves when he's on his game.

2) Rudy is no longer as reliable to always be on his game. Two years ago he just didn't have a bad games. Lately that's isn't the case. He still moves well for someone at his size and age, but that quarter step he's lost is evident.

3) while he's an exceptional team defender and rim protector, and even still a good isolation defender when he gets switched out on the perimeter- he can get eaten by high level centers. This is a bewildering reality to me, but Rudy just isn't that good one on one against skilled bigs.

4) I just want to restate this because I think it's a very big problem- his efficacy nose dives against really good teams.

I like Rudy and admire that he has taken on unconventional path to being a really good NBA player, and I actually have a soft spot for him cause I was also a clumsy player who's strengths were undervalued on the teams I played on. That said, I do not think this team can win a championship or even get to the finals if he's their starting center. This is a problem they need to address either this year if they believe they have a real shot this year or next, but I can't get it out of my head how he was mostly bad during the playoffs last year.

This won't happen, and it might even be a bad idea but I really wonder if the team wouldn't be better if he came off the bench with Conley and Jaden was the nominal center in a five out offense. Either Naz or Jaylen would replace him the starting lineup, but this won't happen

While that's true, it's also true across the board on defense. Does Jaden get better or worse when playing SGA and OKC versus Joe Rookie? I would bet his stats are far worse also, And frankly elite teams beat non elite teams. That's why they're elite.

I think also elite offense beats elite defense more so then the other way (less so in the playoffs IF the refs allow more physicality). If you're Jokic or Luka, SGA no defense really stops them.

Now you simply make it hard on them and hope they play below their avg. and no hit mircle after miracle shot, Like Luka and Kyrie did to us two years ago or OKC last year, they didn't. Well the OKC series wasn't close, the Mavs series was.

Now I suppose I'd rather be elite (NUMBER 1) on offense versus defense. However you need both to be good to great to win it all. OKC for example has no weakness. If I remember the stats as well, having the number 1 defense in the regular season is a great indicator of going all the way too. I was hoping we'd return to our two years ago roots and start dominating more, however we haven't yet.

[D-Loser25]

Rudy is not an elite defensive center in 2025. Of course his on/off numbers are gonna be insane…. He’s our only actual center. When your comparison is Naz, you’d damn well better look good.

Maybe it should be the other way, Naz can completely dominate on offense and should and against backups! He has the matchup advantage that dictates he should cook on most nights. Why not make up for his subpar defense with elite offense?

You have to realize that saying Rudy isn't good means Naz is super trash. Thats not true.

Oh, I never said he wasn’t good. I said he’s not elite. He’s probably very good, but that’s still short of elite. This fan base is in for a surprise once the schedule balances out. Unless something big changes, we’re looking like a play-in team to me. Now the bottom of the west is looking weaker than expected, but I’m thinking maybe 7 seed.

[AussieWolf3]

Great topic FNG

I would encourage us all to not let it devolve in a discussion about whether Rudy is or is not an elite defender. Let's work from the premise that FNGs two points are correct, and if they are what does that imply about the team's overall trajectory this season?

Because while I agree that Rudy is an elite or near elite defender, and the void of any replicable backup on the roster makes him extremely valuable to the team- I would like to interrogate what it is that makes him good on defense and why those strengths consistently present problems against good teams even going back to last year.

I'm not smart enough to have good answers to this questions myself, but I do have some observations.

1) Rudy is a really smart defender and that plus his size and instincts make it very tough for even good offenses to score on the wolves when he's on his game.

2) Rudy is no longer as reliable to always be on his game. Two years ago he just didn't have a bad games. Lately that's isn't the case. He still moves well for someone at his size and age, but that quarter step he's lost is evident.

3) while he's an exceptional team defender and rim protector, and even still a good isolation defender when he gets switched out on the perimeter- he can get eaten by high level centers. This is a bewildering reality to me, but Rudy just isn't that good one on one against skilled bigs.

4) I just want to restate this because I think it's a very big problem- his efficacy nose dives against really good teams.

I like Rudy and admire that he has taken on unconventional path to being a really good NBA player, and I actually have a soft spot for him cause I was also a clumsy player who's strengths were undervalued on the teams I played on. That said, I do not think this team can win a championship or even get to the finals if he's their starting center. This is a problem they need to address either this year if they believe they have a real shot this year or next, but I can't get it out of my head how he was mostly bad during the playoffs last year.

This won't happen, and it might even be a bad idea but I really wonder if the team wouldn't be better if he came off the bench with Conley and Jaden was the nominal center in a five out offense. Either Naz or Jaylen would replace him the starting lineup, but this won't happen

Good analysis Aussie.

On #1, I agree.

On #2, keep in mind he's no longer paid like the perennial DPOY he was in Utah and first couple years in Minnesota (as a % of the overall salary cap).

On #3, he's always struggled at times with certain one-on-one matchups. He's not an individual "stopper" per se, but just an elite team defender that helps cover for others.

On #4, yes, he has to do better against better teams. That has been more of an issue this season so far.

On not winning a title or getting to the Finals with Rudy as the starting Center, I think that's true so long as we are so dependent on him to play competent team defense. But that's not a Rudy problem, that's a Connelly/Finch problem!

Fix the non-Rudy defense so Finch has more options versus having to "survive" those minutes and always being forced to get Rudy back in the game!

I think you're more on the nose then I am here. It's over stating the fact to say he shouldn't be the starting center, but like I said- I can't get over how much of a non factor he was for most of the playoffs. It wasn't that he was bad actually, he just had his minutes reduced by a lot and was rarely a dominant presence.

To that point, the problem isn't really his defense against good teams, although skilled bigs are a problem for him, but rather he such a liability on offense cause he can't just bully bad teams on the glass.

This is why they need solve the puzzle for the non Rudy minutes. I've said it plenty at this point but I would really like to see a 5 out offense with Jaden playing center. His new found shooting prowess really opens up a new dimension on offense.

Ant
Dante
Naz
Julius
Jaden

Would be a handful on offense. There is actually good size in that lineup so rebounding shouldn't be a problem but it certainly would be and that is scary, but that lineup would be able to play with pace and lights out shooting.
I hope they can test run it throughout the season

[Coolbreeze44]

I think Gafford instead of Rudy would improve this team. Try making that trade and see what Dallas says before they hang up the phone. Rudy cannot catch the basketball and is a terrible passer. The type of passer you see in a rec gym in someone who just took up the game. He also can't put the ball on the floor, not that you would ever want him to, but real basketball players can at least do that a little bit. Sure he can set a screen, but he's a horrible offensive player.

[Wolvesfan21]

Rudy is not an elite defensive center in 2025. Of course his on/off numbers are gonna be insane…. He’s our only actual center. When your comparison is Naz, you’d damn well better look good.

Maybe it should be the other way, Naz can completely dominate on offense and should and against backups! He has the matchup advantage that dictates he should cook on most nights. Why not make up for his subpar defense with elite offense?

You have to realize that saying Rudy isn't good means Naz is super trash. Thats not true.

Oh, I never said he wasn’t good. I said he’s not elite. He’s probably very good, but that’s still short of elite. This fan base is in for a surprise once the schedule balances out. Unless something big changes, we’re looking like a play-in team to me. Now the bottom of the west is looking weaker than expected, but I’m thinking maybe 7 seed.

He's a 4 time DPOY, one of 3 in history. Now do you think he has gone from one of the best ever which is not even arguable because those are the facts by the stats and voters to very good in a couple years?

I think some people never liked the trade to start with, probably liked KAT or Wiggins or whoever.

But since Rudy has come here we've had the most success in franchise history. But just very good I suppose.

[AussieWolf3]

Rudy is not an elite defensive center in 2025. Of course his on/off numbers are gonna be insane…. He’s our only actual center. When your comparison is Naz, you’d damn well better look good.

Maybe it should be the other way, Naz can completely dominate on offense and should and against backups! He has the matchup advantage that dictates he should cook on most nights. Why not make up for his subpar defense with elite offense?

You have to realize that saying Rudy isn't good means Naz is super trash. Thats not true.

Oh, I never said he wasn’t good. I said he’s not elite. He’s probably very good, but that’s still short of elite. This fan base is in for a surprise once the schedule balances out. Unless something big changes, we’re looking like a play-in team to me. Now the bottom of the west is looking weaker than expected, but I’m thinking maybe 7 seed.

I think this remains to be seen. The reality is that the starting 5 have been very very good for the majority of the season, and the bench's depth is likely hampered by Shannon's injury/underperform.

However, this team hasn't just beat bad ones, they have eviscerated them, which is typically a single of a elite team. Their losses to good teams have been:

2 to Denver, both on back to backs
1 to the Knicks in Ant's first game back- they were great in the first half and awful in the 2nd
2 to LA. One was without Ant but both of these were inexcusably bad losses imo

Eventually the excuses will run out and they need to prove they're more than paper tigers. I think they will but we will see. My prediction is they'll finish top 4

[D-Loser25]

Maybe it should be the other way, Naz can completely dominate on offense and should and against backups! He has the matchup advantage that dictates he should cook on most nights. Why not make up for his subpar defense with elite offense?

You have to realize that saying Rudy isn't good means Naz is super trash. Thats not true.

Oh, I never said he wasn’t good. I said he’s not elite. He’s probably very good, but that’s still short of elite. This fan base is in for a surprise once the schedule balances out. Unless something big changes, we’re looking like a play-in team to me. Now the bottom of the west is looking weaker than expected, but I’m thinking maybe 7 seed.

He's a 4 time DPOY, one of 3 in history. Now do you think he has gone from one of the best ever which is not even arguable because those are the facts by the stats and voters to very good in a couple years?

I think some people never liked the trade to start with, probably liked KAT or Wiggins or whoever.

But since Rudy has come here we've had the most success in franchise history. But just very good I suppose.

lol we’re not talking about what he was, guy, don’t twist it. We’re talking about what he is. If you survey every player in the league, 95% are putting current Rudy in the ‘very good’ category (short of both elite and great). Nobody fears current Rudy. Wemby is elite. Current Rudy is nowhere even close to that. And honestly, Wemby was the better defender the year that Rudy won DPOY with us and deserved it, but we had the much better squad.

[Q-is-here]

Great topic FNG

I would encourage us all to not let it devolve in a discussion about whether Rudy is or is not an elite defender. Let's work from the premise that FNGs two points are correct, and if they are what does that imply about the team's overall trajectory this season?

Because while I agree that Rudy is an elite or near elite defender, and the void of any replicable backup on the roster makes him extremely valuable to the team- I would like to interrogate what it is that makes him good on defense and why those strengths consistently present problems against good teams even going back to last year.

I'm not smart enough to have good answers to this questions myself, but I do have some observations.

1) Rudy is a really smart defender and that plus his size and instincts make it very tough for even good offenses to score on the wolves when he's on his game.

2) Rudy is no longer as reliable to always be on his game. Two years ago he just didn't have a bad games. Lately that's isn't the case. He still moves well for someone at his size and age, but that quarter step he's lost is evident.

3) while he's an exceptional team defender and rim protector, and even still a good isolation defender when he gets switched out on the perimeter- he can get eaten by high level centers. This is a bewildering reality to me, but Rudy just isn't that good one on one against skilled bigs.

4) I just want to restate this because I think it's a very big problem- his efficacy nose dives against really good teams.

I like Rudy and admire that he has taken on unconventional path to being a really good NBA player, and I actually have a soft spot for him cause I was also a clumsy player who's strengths were undervalued on the teams I played on. That said, I do not think this team can win a championship or even get to the finals if he's their starting center. This is a problem they need to address either this year if they believe they have a real shot this year or next, but I can't get it out of my head how he was mostly bad during the playoffs last year.

This won't happen, and it might even be a bad idea but I really wonder if the team wouldn't be better if he came off the bench with Conley and Jaden was the nominal center in a five out offense. Either Naz or Jaylen would replace him the starting lineup, but this won't happen

Good analysis Aussie.

On #1, I agree.

On #2, keep in mind he's no longer paid like the perennial DPOY he was in Utah and first couple years in Minnesota (as a % of the overall salary cap).

On #3, he's always struggled at times with certain one-on-one matchups. He's not an individual "stopper" per se, but just an elite team defender that helps cover for others.

On #4, yes, he has to do better against better teams. That has been more of an issue this season so far.

On not winning a title or getting to the Finals with Rudy as the starting Center, I think that's true so long as we are so dependent on him to play competent team defense. But that's not a Rudy problem, that's a Connelly/Finch problem!

Fix the non-Rudy defense so Finch has more options versus having to "survive" those minutes and always being forced to get Rudy back in the game!

I think you're more on the nose then I am here. It's over stating the fact to say he shouldn't be the starting center, but like I said- I can't get over how much of a non factor he was for most of the playoffs. It wasn't that he was bad actually, he just had his minutes reduced by a lot and was rarely a dominant presence.

To that point, the problem isn't really his defense against good teams, although skilled bigs are a problem for him, but rather he such a liability on offense cause he can't just bully bad teams on the glass.

This is why they need solve the puzzle for the non Rudy minutes. I've said it plenty at this point but I would really like to see a 5 out offense with Jaden playing center. His new found shooting prowess really opens up a new dimension on offense.

Ant
Dante
Naz
Julius
Jaden

Would be a handful on offense. There is actually good size in that lineup so rebounding shouldn't be a problem but it certainly would be and that is scary, but that lineup would be able to play with pace and lights out shooting.
I hope they can test run it throughout the season

That very lineup played 113 minutes together last season over the course of 32 games. They had a net rating of -4.3. Their defense was actually solid (Drtg of 108.9), but their offense was pretty bad (Ortg of 104.6), which is hard to understand. After all, isn't the whole idea that Rudy sitting on the bench would supercharge the offense!?! Not the case last season with this lineup!

That doesn't mean it won't work well THIS season or in the playoffs, but just conveying some data from last season. It's not a huge sample which is hard to get for 5-man combinations.

[D-Loser25]

Maybe it should be the other way, Naz can completely dominate on offense and should and against backups! He has the matchup advantage that dictates he should cook on most nights. Why not make up for his subpar defense with elite offense?

You have to realize that saying Rudy isn't good means Naz is super trash. Thats not true.

Oh, I never said he wasn’t good. I said he’s not elite. He’s probably very good, but that’s still short of elite. This fan base is in for a surprise once the schedule balances out. Unless something big changes, we’re looking like a play-in team to me. Now the bottom of the west is looking weaker than expected, but I’m thinking maybe 7 seed.

I think this remains to be seen. The reality is that the starting 5 have been very very good for the majority of the season, and the bench's depth is likely hampered by Shannon's injury/underperform.

However, this team hasn't just beat bad ones, they have eviscerated them, which is typically a single of a elite team. Their losses to good teams have been:

2 to Denver, both on back to backs
1 to the Knicks in Ant's first game back- they were great in the first half and awful in the 2nd
2 to LA. One was without Ant but both of these were inexcusably bad losses imo

Eventually the excuses will run out and they need to prove they're more than paper tigers. I think they will but we will see. My prediction is they'll finish top 4

Fair enough. We have the experience and cohesion going for us. Like others have said, we need another quality center if we want to raise our regular season wins, but we need a PG if we want to raise our chances in the playoffs. If TC can only make one move, it’ll be interesting which if those moves he prioritizes

[Coolbreeze44]

Oh, I never said he wasn’t good. I said he’s not elite. He’s probably very good, but that’s still short of elite. This fan base is in for a surprise once the schedule balances out. Unless something big changes, we’re looking like a play-in team to me. Now the bottom of the west is looking weaker than expected, but I’m thinking maybe 7 seed.

I think this remains to be seen. The reality is that the starting 5 have been very very good for the majority of the season, and the bench's depth is likely hampered by Shannon's injury/underperform.

However, this team hasn't just beat bad ones, they have eviscerated them, which is typically a single of a elite team. Their losses to good teams have been:

2 to Denver, both on back to backs
1 to the Knicks in Ant's first game back- they were great in the first half and awful in the 2nd
2 to LA. One was without Ant but both of these were inexcusably bad losses imo

Eventually the excuses will run out and they need to prove they're more than paper tigers. I think they will but we will see. My prediction is they'll finish top 4

Fair enough. We have the experience and cohesion going for us. Like others have said, we need another quality center if we want to raise our regular season wins, but we need a PG if we want to raise our chances in the playoffs. If TC can only make one move, it’ll be interesting which if those moves he prioritizes

Must have both of those moves to be a true contender