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Re: It feels like ANT 2.0, doesn't it?
Posted: Mon May 25, 2026 11:24 am
by WildWolf2813
If your core is missing the 2nd best player on it, do you really have a core or are you still seeking it out?
Re: It feels like ANT 2.0, doesn't it?
Posted: Mon May 25, 2026 11:32 am
by WildWolf2813
guest81 wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2026 9:51 am
FNG wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2026 9:24 am
I hear a lot about Ant 2.0, but I'm not exactly sure what it means. It seems to me Ant 2.0 happened when we traded away a lot of his teammates for Rudy, and then we had Ant 3.0 when we traded his co-star KAT for Randle and Donte...those were both very significant roster changes designed to put exactly the right combination of players around Ant. But while both of those moves were prudent I thought, they haven't proved to be enough. So now we are likely on the cusp of Ant 4.0, and we're all curious to see what TC is going to do.
I've stayed away from the PG thread because it's silent (except for Q's opening summary) with respect to my first choice and one that seems to be gaining a lot of steam...trading for Kyrie Irving. I'm pretty much on an island here with my belief that Ant is not a complete enough package to lead this team to a championship. But he is an incredible shooter and scorer, and I think the best version of Ant would emerge if he were playing next to 2 certain Hall of Famers in Rudy and Kyrie. Kyrie would allow Ant to play much more off ball, and would give the Wolves two elite scorers.
Jim Souhan talks about a Kyrie trade in this morning's Strib, and apparently Jonny Athletic posted something recently about Ant privately lobbying to trade for him. What would it take to get it done? What I see most often is Randle, Ayo and either our 2032 pick or this year's...I would do that in a heartbeat. I'd be less excited about including Donte in that trade instead of Ayo, but I would still like it. I think a starting lineup of Rudy/Naz/Jaden/Ant/Kyrie instantly puts us in the chip conversation.
Why does Dallas do it? There is some talk that Kyrie is not interested in finishing his career with a team that is building around a teenager and not likely to be a contender before Kyrie retires. Irving has matured since his early flat earth days, but he still has a mercurial side to him...Dallas doesn't want a malcontent around their budding star. Getting draft capital and two players who potentially move into starting roles (only if they think Ayo is a better option in the backcourt than either Christie or Williams) is a good deal for them...and moody Ju would likely be delighted to be back home, even if he were playing for a lottery team.
I know most here see Ant as a #1 on a championship team and maybe someday he gets there...but right now the deep stats he's putting up in the role the Wolves have carved out for him bear little resemblance to those of the true #1's. And I think he gets to that level in a hurry if he is allowed to play SG next to a future HOFer. I think TC needs to swing for the fences this off season, and the other big swing option (Giannis) would create a really bad fit. And any kind of smaller deal smacks of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Bringing Kyrie right now will instantly lead to the best version of Ant, and when he retires in 2 or 3 years, TC can use the cap space to go find Ant's next Robin...or Batman.
Git 'er done!
Never understood why it would take that much to get Kyrie. He hasn't played in a year and is 34. Why is his value higher than Randle himself?
Because we've seen what a healthy Kyrie can do for a team. There's a defined role and teams who seek that out. Randle doesn't really fit on a good or bad team.
Re: It feels like ANT 2.0, doesn't it?
Posted: Mon May 25, 2026 11:34 am
by 60WinTim
WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2026 11:24 am
If your core is missing the 2nd best player on it, do you really have a core or are you still seeking it out?
No doubt, that is a lingering question! Could it be a "short-term" 2nd best player like Kyrie? Could it be a "longer-term" player that requires some "extra" assets? Or could it be someone already on the roster that grows into the role, especially with Randle out of the picture?
I guess we'll see what TC comes up with!
Re: It feels like ANT 2.0, doesn't it?
Posted: Mon May 25, 2026 11:36 am
by WildWolf2813
kekgeek wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2026 10:57 am
I think people will be a little stunned on how low Kyrie trade value is. 3 years ago he was traded for salary filler (dimwidde had a little value), 1 1st and 2 seconds. Now Kyrie is 3 years older coming off an ACL injury.
I think Randle and a lotto protect first gets it done and maybe a 2nd
Kyrie is almost more in demand currently than Randle is, would have more suitors in a trade, has less years on his deal. Meanwhile even in your scenario you're still attaching picks to get off Randle, which is how he got here.
Re: It feels like ANT 2.0, doesn't it?
Posted: Mon May 25, 2026 12:06 pm
by mjs34
WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2026 11:36 am
kekgeek wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2026 10:57 am
I think people will be a little stunned on how low Kyrie trade value is. 3 years ago he was traded for salary filler (dimwidde had a little value), 1 1st and 2 seconds. Now Kyrie is 3 years older coming off an ACL injury.
I think Randle and a lotto protect first gets it done and maybe a 2nd
Kyrie is almost more in demand currently than Randle is, would have more suitors in a trade, has less years on his deal. Meanwhile even in your scenario you're still attaching picks to get off Randle, which is how he got here.
Both Randle and Kyrie have options for 27-28 season. If we need to attach picks to get off Randle, how is he not overpaid?
Re: It feels like ANT 2.0, doesn't it?
Posted: Mon May 25, 2026 12:19 pm
by Q-is-here
WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2026 11:36 am
kekgeek wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2026 10:57 am
I think people will be a little stunned on how low Kyrie trade value is. 3 years ago he was traded for salary filler (dimwidde had a little value), 1 1st and 2 seconds. Now Kyrie is 3 years older coming off an ACL injury.
I think Randle and a lotto protect first gets it done and maybe a 2nd
Kyrie is almost more in demand currently than Randle is, would have more suitors in a trade, has less years on his deal.
Meanwhile even in your scenario you're still attaching picks to get off Randle, which is how he got here.
C'mon, the Knicks got KAT in return. You make it sound like the Knicks had to take some big hit to get rid of Randle when their return is currently the starting Center on a team that is on the cusp of making the Finals.
Re: It feels like ANT 2.0, doesn't it?
Posted: Mon May 25, 2026 12:25 pm
by Q-is-here
60WinTim wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2026 11:34 am
WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2026 11:24 am
If your core is missing the 2nd best player on it, do you really have a core or are you still seeking it out?
No doubt, that is a lingering question! Could it be a "short-term" 2nd best player like Kyrie? Could it be a "longer-term" player that requires some "extra" assets? Or could it be someone already on the roster that grows into the role, especially with Randle out of the picture?
I guess we'll see what TC comes up with!
It's a good question by Wildwolf. I think the bet would be Jaden would eventually grow into the 2nd best player if Julius is gone and he gets some help with POA defense, but it's a bet and not assured given his age and years in the league already.
Re: It feels like ANT 2.0, doesn't it?
Posted: Mon May 25, 2026 1:07 pm
by Monster
Q-is-here wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2026 12:19 pm
WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2026 11:36 am
kekgeek wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2026 10:57 am
I think people will be a little stunned on how low Kyrie trade value is. 3 years ago he was traded for salary filler (dimwidde had a little value), 1 1st and 2 seconds. Now Kyrie is 3 years older coming off an ACL injury.
I think Randle and a lotto protect first gets it done and maybe a 2nd
Kyrie is almost more in demand currently than Randle is, would have more suitors in a trade, has less years on his deal.
Meanwhile even in your scenario you're still attaching picks to get off Randle, which is how he got here.
C'mon, the Knicks got KAT in return. You make it sound like the Knicks had to take some big hit to get rid of Randle when their return is currently the starting Center on a team that is on the cusp of making the Finals.
Kyrie also makes more money than Randle. If Kyrie stays healthy and does what he does (his offensive game isn't reliant on athletic ability) then that money is a bit of a bargain but it's still money teams will have to navigate and he could be hurt a chunk of games again.
Honestly a low key decision the Wolves and Connelly may need to make is what they are gonna do with Donte. He may be able to return at some point next season but only has one year on his deal. He probably still has some value in a trade and his money can help make a deal work. I doubt they want to move him though because he is the type of player that fills in gaps well on both ends of the court. How much would they have to pay him if they were gonna keep him long term? How much do you want to pay a guy that at times can be a little undersized also heading into his 30's with injury history? Keep in mind I'm a big fan of his not quite FNG level but I'm eating snacks in the bus (or maybe it's some sort of nifty conversion van?) FNG is driving.
Now back to the idea that Kyrie probably doesn't have a ton of trade value. I tend to agree with that. You are still gonna have to give up something but the cost isn't gonna be too high especially if he has you on the list of places he wants to go and you have a salaried player you are willing to move which I would guess the Wolves would be willing to move Randle in a deal for him. You know who would maybe fit well coming back in a Kyrie deal? PJ Washington, but I would guess you would need to throw in a pretty decent asset to get him as he is a solid starter and he is not getting paid huge amount of money for what he contributes.
Re: It feels like ANT 2.0, doesn't it?
Posted: Mon May 25, 2026 1:21 pm
by kekgeek
mjs34 wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2026 12:06 pm
WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2026 11:36 am
kekgeek wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2026 10:57 am
I think people will be a little stunned on how low Kyrie trade value is. 3 years ago he was traded for salary filler (dimwidde had a little value), 1 1st and 2 seconds. Now Kyrie is 3 years older coming off an ACL injury.
I think Randle and a lotto protect first gets it done and maybe a 2nd
Kyrie is almost more in demand currently than Randle is, would have more suitors in a trade, has less years on his deal. Meanwhile even in your scenario you're still attaching picks to get off Randle, which is how he got here.
Both Randle and Kyrie have options for 27-28 season. If we need to attach picks to get off Randle, how is he not overpaid?
Huh. We are trying to make a theoretical upgrade in talent. Randle and a pick for a talent upgrade does not mean it was a salary dump. That’s like saying if we traded Jaden and a 1st for Giannis we salaried dumped Jaden.
To acquire Kyrie from a salary perspective either Ant, Rudy, Randle, Jaden/Naz + DDV must be in the trade. Randle makes the most logic sense.
The reason for my original post was because FNG said Randle, Ayo and a pick for Kyrie. I think Kyrie will go for less than people think because 3 years ago Kyrie was traded for salary filler, a 1st and 2nd. Kyrie is now 3 years older coming off and ACL injury don’t know how Kyrie value increased in those 3 years (I understand Kyrie was traded from the nets after he wore out his welcome on back to back teams
Re: It feels like ANT 2.0, doesn't it?
Posted: Mon May 25, 2026 1:29 pm
by FNG
I feel like I highjacked Tim's thread with my Kyrie bit (sorry Tim!), and obviously Ant 2.0 is a much broader topic. So I'm going to tee up a thread just for the purpose of addressing Kyrie.