Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Well this thing gets real tomorrow. Any thoughts? I'm always fascinated by both the NBA and NFL drafts.

I saw that Speilman said a couple teams have called about moving up to #23. I immediately wondered if a team was looking to move up to get one of those other QBs. This draft has already been interesting on that front and I think it's is gonna be interesting because of the QB position with plenty of teams that don't exactly have that spot locked up.

1. When Zimmer said that about the defense, I was about to go off on him again, but then I went to FBoutsiders, and they have the MIN defense at 14th in DVOA (#16 in offense, #4 in S/T), so maybe he has a point. This time.

2. I am fine with whatever Speilman does, but if they are going to trade down, they should probably go ahead and do it. ATL has made it clear they want to trade down from #17 and MIA has made it clear they want to trade down from #13, so they really aren't in a position to haggle.

3. Once again, I am fine with whatever Speilman decides, but maybe this is "Quality" year versus a "Quantity" year, and MIA's 13th could be had for next to nothing. I know he likes to make 10 picks, but are there really 10 open roster spots? They went into last year's draft with a lot more questions and only kept, what, 6 of their picks?

I could see a scenario where even if you trade down a few spots with the top pick and it may allow you to get quality deeper in the draft since you have more picks to move up at any given point. How much better is the guy 5 or 10 or whatever picks higher than where you are at? Idk Sure they had 10 picks last year only 6 made it but they traded for an olineman because some of the guys they brought in weren't good enough and there were some injuries. Some guys won't cut it but it might be worth drafting them anyway. You never know who is going to be worthwhile and who won't.

And like I said, I have no problem with him trading down, but if he is going to, he has to hurry up and get something in writing because all the team has to do is call ATL. I know there are two different systems that dictate what a team should get in trade for a pick, but old-fashioned-supply-and-demand has been around much longer.

As far as quality vs. quantity, I think you agree with me?

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Well this thing gets real tomorrow. Any thoughts? I'm always fascinated by both the NBA and NFL drafts.

I saw that Speilman said a couple teams have called about moving up to #23. I immediately wondered if a team was looking to move up to get one of those other QBs. This draft has already been interesting on that front and I think it's is gonna be interesting because of the QB position with plenty of teams that don't exactly have that spot locked up.

1. When Zimmer said that about the defense, I was about to go off on him again, but then I went to FBoutsiders, and they have the MIN defense at 14th in DVOA (#16 in offense, #4 in S/T), so maybe he has a point. This time.

2. I am fine with whatever Speilman does, but if they are going to trade down, they should probably go ahead and do it. ATL has made it clear they want to trade down from #17 and MIA has made it clear they want to trade down from #13, so they really aren't in a position to haggle.

3. Once again, I am fine with whatever Speilman decides, but maybe this is "Quality" year versus a "Quantity" year, and MIA's 13th could be had for next to nothing. I know he likes to make 10 picks, but are there really 10 open roster spots? They went into last year's draft with a lot more questions and only kept, what, 6 of their picks?

I could see a scenario where even if you trade down a few spots with the top pick and it may allow you to get quality deeper in the draft since you have more picks to move up at any given point. How much better is the guy 5 or 10 or whatever picks higher than where you are at? Idk Sure they had 10 picks last year only 6 made it but they traded for an olineman because some of the guys they brought in weren't good enough and there were some injuries. Some guys won't cut it but it might be worth drafting them anyway. You never know who is going to be worthwhile and who won't.

And like I said, I have no problem with him trading down, but if he is going to, he has to hurry up and get something in writing because all the team has to do is call ATL. I know there are two different systems that dictate what a team should get in trade for a pick, but old-fashioned-supply-and-demand has been around much longer.

As far as quality vs. quantity, I think you agree with me?

Well he isn't going to do the deal until he knows who will be available. What if a guy they have as one of their top players on the board slides to them at #23? They take the guy and move on. Atlanta from what you say is quite a few picks up the price will be more and all that stuff.

I would say we are in agreement about quality but maybe I'll explain more what I meant.

When it comes to quantity and quality I think there is merit for both especially in the NFL draft. Those 6th and 7th round picks are nice because you can take those guys and know you will get them not go bonkers at the end of the draft and try like mad to sign them as an undrafted FA. At some positions like WR history tends to give you better chances of getting a good player in the first 2 rounds but the Vikings seemed to have gotten lucky getting Diggs and even Wright seems to be plenty solid as a later pick. Speilman has shown plenty of aggressiveness moving up and down in the draft so he doesn't just accumulate and use the shotgun approach either. That's partly why he likes having more picks because it enables him to move up to get guys. So I guess what I am saying again is its both. It was just a couple years ago Speilman ended up with three 1st round selections. If he wants a guy and it's reasonable to go get him he will do that too.

monsterpile wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Well this thing gets real tomorrow. Any thoughts? I'm always fascinated by both the NBA and NFL drafts.

I saw that Speilman said a couple teams have called about moving up to #23. I immediately wondered if a team was looking to move up to get one of those other QBs. This draft has already been interesting on that front and I think it's is gonna be interesting because of the QB position with plenty of teams that don't exactly have that spot locked up.

1. When Zimmer said that about the defense, I was about to go off on him again, but then I went to FBoutsiders, and they have the MIN defense at 14th in DVOA (#16 in offense, #4 in S/T), so maybe he has a point. This time.

2. I am fine with whatever Speilman does, but if they are going to trade down, they should probably go ahead and do it. ATL has made it clear they want to trade down from #17 and MIA has made it clear they want to trade down from #13, so they really aren't in a position to haggle.

3. Once again, I am fine with whatever Speilman decides, but maybe this is "Quality" year versus a "Quantity" year, and MIA's 13th could be had for next to nothing. I know he likes to make 10 picks, but are there really 10 open roster spots? They went into last year's draft with a lot more questions and only kept, what, 6 of their picks?

I could see a scenario where even if you trade down a few spots with the top pick and it may allow you to get quality deeper in the draft since you have more picks to move up at any given point. How much better is the guy 5 or 10 or whatever picks higher than where you are at? Idk Sure they had 10 picks last year only 6 made it but they traded for an olineman because some of the guys they brought in weren't good enough and there were some injuries. Some guys won't cut it but it might be worth drafting them anyway. You never know who is going to be worthwhile and who won't.

And like I said, I have no problem with him trading down, but if he is going to, he has to hurry up and get something in writing because all the team has to do is call ATL. I know there are two different systems that dictate what a team should get in trade for a pick, but old-fashioned-supply-and-demand has been around much longer.

As far as quality vs. quantity, I think you agree with me?

Well he isn't going to do the deal until he knows who will be available. What if a guy they have as one of their top players on the board slides to them at #23? They take the guy and move on. Atlanta from what you say is quite a few picks up the price will be more and all that stuff.

I would say we are in agreement about quality but maybe I'll explain more what I meant.

When it comes to quantity and quality I think there is merit for both especially in the NFL draft. Those 6th and 7th round picks are nice because you can take those guys and know you will get them not go bonkers at the end of the draft and try like mad to sign them as an undrafted FA. At some positions like WR history tends to give you better chances of getting a good player in the first 2 rounds but the Vikings seemed to have gotten lucky getting Diggs and even Wright seems to be plenty solid as a later pick. Speilman has shown plenty of aggressiveness moving up and down in the draft so he doesn't just accumulate and use the shotgun approach either. That's partly why he likes having more picks because it enables him to move up to get guys. So I guess what I am saying again is its both. It was just a couple years ago Speilman ended up with three 1st round selections. If he wants a guy and it's reasonable to go get him he will do that too.

ATL is #17. I try to not make statements of fact unless I have researched it well. Well, I have researched it, and they are #17. In terms of them trading down, that is what I have read on BSPN and other sites. Basic laws of supply-and-demand state that the price MAY NOT be more. If more teams want to trade down instead of trade up, the price will drop.

Yes, 6th's and 7th's are nice. When you have a very weak roster with many open spots, or a very expensive roster and no money to sign F/A's. Neither is the problem here. That is why I say it is a "Quality" year.

The Vikings had three picks because they had their own, SEA's from the Harvin trade (nothing comparable has happened or is going to happen), and NE's by giving up 4 picks. Speilman could do that again, but my feeling is he would be gun shy. Simply getting the best KR in football (and under-utilized RB, WR, and PR) is not enough for some people, and a couple of the guys NE drafted with the Viking picks are having good careers.

The best example of "quality" over "quantity" that I can remember, that didn't involve luck or some other team's incompetence, is the year Holmgren took over in SEA and they ended up trading all their picks for #2 and #3 (Walter Jones and Shawn Springs). I'm not suggesting that that is what the Vikings do, but I wouldn't be disappointed if they ended up with #13, #17, and a bunch of undrafted F/A's. There just isn't that many open roster spots. But if Speilman ends up with ten picks in rounds two through six, I can live with it, if he gets the right guys and doesn't cut half of them on Labor day.

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Well this thing gets real tomorrow. Any thoughts? I'm always fascinated by both the NBA and NFL drafts.

I saw that Speilman said a couple teams have called about moving up to #23. I immediately wondered if a team was looking to move up to get one of those other QBs. This draft has already been interesting on that front and I think it's is gonna be interesting because of the QB position with plenty of teams that don't exactly have that spot locked up.

1. When Zimmer said that about the defense, I was about to go off on him again, but then I went to FBoutsiders, and they have the MIN defense at 14th in DVOA (#16 in offense, #4 in S/T), so maybe he has a point. This time.

2. I am fine with whatever Speilman does, but if they are going to trade down, they should probably go ahead and do it. ATL has made it clear they want to trade down from #17 and MIA has made it clear they want to trade down from #13, so they really aren't in a position to haggle.

3. Once again, I am fine with whatever Speilman decides, but maybe this is "Quality" year versus a "Quantity" year, and MIA's 13th could be had for next to nothing. I know he likes to make 10 picks, but are there really 10 open roster spots? They went into last year's draft with a lot more questions and only kept, what, 6 of their picks?

If myles jack falls down the draft boards I could see a trade up to #13 to complete the UCLA LB trifecta. Otherwise, spielman has a track record of never trading up from his 1st round pick. He always trades up into the 1st round from his 2nd rounder for the 5th year option. I expect him to trade back or stand pat to pick BPA.

I gotta admit I haven't been watching this as closely as usual with all the action over at 600 N 1st Avenue, but with Grandpa Sports' nailing the timing of the Thibs' deal, maybe he's going through a rejuvenation...so I read his column closely today, and it made a lot of sense to me. His main 2 points:

1) While everyone is talking WR at 23, I have always been an advocate for finding your WRs after the first round. Sid talks about the depth of WRs in this draft allowing Spielman to find a good one later, and I endorse this.

2) This is a terrific OT draft (the second most important position in football after QB) with 4 blue chippers expected to go perhaps in the first 15 picks. Sid doesn't have a name, but he doesn't think Rick would be comfortable coming out of this draft without one of those guys. Although Spielman generally prefers trading down to get more picks, the structure of the current roster may not make this the best strategy this year. This is the year Rick trades up instead of down, and selects one of those OT studs. It will probably be too expensive to move up high enough to select Stanley or Tunsil, so I see us ending up with one of the Big 10 guys...Conklin or Decker. Either one could be a nice addition at RT, or even take over at LT if Kalil continues to have injury issues.

longstrangetrip wrote:I gotta admit I haven't been watching this as closely as usual with all the action over at 600 N 1st Avenue, but with Grandpa Sports' nailing the timing of the Thibs' deal, maybe he's going through a rejuvenation...so I read his column closely today, and it made a lot of sense to me. His main 2 points:

1) While everyone is talking WR at 23, I have always been an advocate for finding your WRs after the first round. Sid talks about the depth of WRs in this draft allowing Spielman to find a good one later, and I endorse this.

2) This is a terrific OT draft (the second most important position in football after QB) with 4 blue chippers expected to go perhaps in the first 15 picks. Sid doesn't have a name, but he doesn't think Rick would be comfortable coming out of this draft without one of those guys. Although Spielman generally prefers trading down to get more picks, the structure of the current roster may not make this the best strategy this year. This is the year Rick trades up instead of down, and selects one of those OT studs. It will probably be too expensive to move up high enough to select Stanley or Tunsil, so I see us ending up with one of the Big 10 guys...Conklin or Decker. Either one could be a nice addition at RT, or even take over at LT if Kalil continues to have injury issues.

Two things
1. Thank you for helping me bring back the "Grandpa Sports" moniker. I never understood why it went away. I know Tom Barnard can be a little mean/angry, but c'mon, Sid was old when I was a kid.

2. If Speilman wants to exercise 10 picks again, I am fine with it. As long as he has a plan and is not doing it the way Billy Beane signs OK player cheaply just so he can continue to be known as the guy who does that. Wants a DE so he can cut Robison and save $5.1m? I'm OK with it. Sick and tired of Jeff Locke? Sounds good. Can't afford AP's cap number in 2017 and wants his replacement a year early? Sign me up. Sees Greenway's and Loadholt's replacements? Check. I just don't want to see him take 10 guys and then cut half of them before training camp ends.

Well the draft has been interesting so far. I'm glad I am watching.

No cigar for Sid on this one, as the Vikings stayed at 23 and picked the guy everyone but Sid thought they would take...Treadwell. Anybody have any reaction?

Well, I normally don't like taking WRs in the first round, but it looks like a good pick to me. Most of the pundits had him as the best or second best WR in the draft, and three receivers went before him. Sounds like he may have dropped because he was slower in the 40 than the others. Big deal. Give me a big target who can catch the ball and block over a guy whose main skill is speed any day.

longstrangetrip wrote:Well, I normally don't like taking WRs in the first round, but it looks like a good pick to me. Most of the pundits had him as the best or second best WR in the draft, and three receivers went before him. Sounds like he may have dropped because he was slower in the 40 than the others. Big deal. Give me a big target who can catch the ball and block over a guy whose main skill is speed any day.

Everyone I heard from local radio guys to friends thought Treadwell would be a steal late in the first round. He just looks like a natural pass catcher.