Minnesota Sports Forum

bleedspeed177 wrote:Bills signed Harvin.

I wonder how 84 would play as a RB. I think he would obviously suck at blacking, but he is the one guy that can make things happen.

He is a bigger guy but He still runs upright I don't know how many plays I would call for him as a RB. 5-7? Sure I'm absolutely in for that. Harvin was more like a Typical RB. CP is a unique athlete though in his own right. The way he can change direction at full speed is very special.

bleedspeed177 wrote:

TheSP wrote:Norv isn't great but you cannot put this on him. The Eagles showed if you can rush the passer, and against this line who can't, jump the short routes and the Vikes fold. There is no coordinator that can make lemonade from these lemons and it doesn't help that the world beating defense sucks balls now for some reason too.

I swear the Patriots make lemonade all of the time out of lemons. I look at that team and dont' see many good players outside Brady and Gronk, but they certainly perform as a unit.

Brady is being considered at this point at least a top 10 all-time QB though. That's a pretty big thing.

Now back to Norv and what he is calling. I didn't see this game but it seems at times he could be more creative and I saw a tweet than Asiata picked up some yards when they lined up in the wildcat so again they are doing some things. I know other teams seem to figure stuff out on that side of the ball but remember this team was looking to likely build around some of Teddy's strengths and now they have a guy in Bradford who is a better player and can execute well probably has different strengths and weaknesses than Teddy so they have to change things around a bit for that. I think Norv and the staff deserve to get some blame here. How much? Idk but they don't get off the hook. It's a bad deal either way and it HAS to get better. It seems that the other guys are getting some say as they are doing the wildcat etc so I'm not sure if Norv is being stubborn or if giving the Jon to one of those guys that's pretty qualified would change much. I haven't seen any reports from media who seem to have much inside info on the team to have anything to go off of.

The entire west coast offense is built around short passing. If jumping routes is so easy how did that ever become a thing? Every pass seems like it is waiting on a 10 yard run minimum before the break. We are running zero drag routes over the middle of the field even though that is an area I think Patterson could be a monster in. Our short passes work fine to Rudolph and Digs but they are too few and far between and the short passing game works against any defense as long as you are spreading the ball to different receivers and you are attacking different matchups. The Patriots are the kings of the short passing game and rarely push the ball down the field. Why don't other teams just jump their routes? The answer is because they spread the ball around and defenses have a hard time jumping routes when you are moving the ball all over the field.

khans2k5 wrote:The entire west coast offense is built around short passing. If jumping routes is so easy how did that ever become a thing? Every pass seems like it is waiting on a 10 yard run minimum before the break

It's not JUST jumping short routes, it's that the line cannot keep Sam upright more than a couple seconds which means the mid-range routes don't have time to develop in addition to not having a running game means there is literally nothing left to exploit.

khans2k5 wrote: We are running zero drag routes over the middle of the field even though that is an area I think Patterson could be a monster in. Our short passes work fine to Rudolph and Digs but they are too few and far between and the short passing game works against any defense as long as you are spreading the ball to different receivers and you are attacking different matchups. The Patriots are the kings of the short passing game and rarely push the ball down the field. Why don't other teams just jump their routes? The answer is because they spread the ball around and defenses have a hard time jumping routes when you are moving the ball all over the field.

The answer is because Brady regularly has 3 or more seconds before he is driven into the ground. It's not even just having two seconds or less to throw, it's that the defense is in your face almost immediately with our line so even those two seconds are difficult.

By drag routes I guess you mean crossing routes? If so it takes time to come open, time Sam doesn't have. They're pretty much limited to running outs and slants when you have 2 seconds or less for the route to develop, and when the defense knows this they're all over those routes.

I'm not a Turner bandwagoner but I just don't see what you can do with 2 seconds or less and no running game. At this point I guess lob passes which of course are going to generate turnovers as they're as easy for the defense to catch as it is the offense.

TheSP wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:The entire west coast offense is built around short passing. If jumping routes is so easy how did that ever become a thing? Every pass seems like it is waiting on a 10 yard run minimum before the break

It's not JUST jumping short routes, it's that the line cannot keep Sam upright more than a couple seconds which means the mid-range routes don't have time to develop in addition to not having a running game means there is literally nothing left to exploit.

khans2k5 wrote: We are running zero drag routes over the middle of the field even though that is an area I think Patterson could be a monster in. Our short passes work fine to Rudolph and Digs but they are too few and far between and the short passing game works against any defense as long as you are spreading the ball to different receivers and you are attacking different matchups. The Patriots are the kings of the short passing game and rarely push the ball down the field. Why don't other teams just jump their routes? The answer is because they spread the ball around and defenses have a hard time jumping routes when you are moving the ball all over the field.

The answer is because Brady regularly has 3 or more seconds before he is driven into the ground. It's not even just having two seconds or less to throw, it's that the defense is in your face almost immediately with our line so even those two seconds are difficult.

By drag routes I guess you mean crossing routes? If so it takes time to come open, time Sam doesn't have. They're pretty much limited to running outs and slants when you have 2 seconds or less for the route to develop, and when the defense knows this they're all over those routes.

I'm not a Turner bandwagoner but I just don't see what you can do with 2 seconds or less and no running game. At this point I guess lob passes which of course are going to generate turnovers as they're as easy for the defense to catch as it is the offense.

I just don't buy that. This line has been bad for more than just the last two games and we did fine before that even under pressure. Sam was still making throws while hanging in the pocket and taking a hit. I don't see how the same players can regress so much and that doesn't fall on the coach and the game plan for continually calling plays that put them in bad spots. We had no run game because he just kept jamming Asiata up the middle with no diversity. The run play inside the 10 where Cordarelle went in motion and Asiata ran into the left side of the line where we had no lead blocker and trips WR's might have been the worst play call I've ever seen. You can't do that when you aren't getting any push on the line. It's calls like that where I seriously question Norv because there is no sane reason to try that.