Camden wrote:No disrespect towards Kek or Jester, but those "five straight baskets without Rudy" comments are often cherry-picked. How many of those buckets came at the rim in the halfcourt? How many of them were transition buckets? How many of them were made jumpers that had little to do with who was playing center?
Comparatively, how many times could we say "five straight wasted offensive possessions with Rudy" and it be true? Again, it's not always about him.
Rudy's still an impactful defender and positive player overall, no doubt, but he's not the dominant force that he once was, and that's who Minnesota blew their load on. The two-big experiment may work out or it may not, but Rudy's overall decline is very noticeable this season if you watched much of him in the past.
I don't think there cherry picked. Its just the natural dramatic defensive drop off when he checks out of a game and the one replacing him is Naz Reid. Its no different then the Offensice Drop off when Ant or Dlo check out of the game. I believe its just extreme when Rudy goes to the bench if that makes sense.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:
How many years have we been if we only had a Top 10 defense our offense is so good? Well right now were sitting here #9 overall. Since January they are 3rd in Defensive rating. But I guess Rudy has no part in that.
But hell the 21-22 team that was fully healthy all year finished #12
Wolves Record without KAT 2020-2022 6-24
2022-2023 19-16 but hey lets only give credit to half the team besides Rudy
I found that interesting. Can you post your source/link? I don't really look at team ratings that much. I just went to Basketball Reference and found the Timberwolves Defensive Rating has improved each year under Finch. It doesn't seem like it - but maybe it's all relative. Here's what I found when looking at "Adjusted Defensive Team Rating" for the last five years:
2019-2020 (Thibodeaux/Saunders) - 21st in DRtg/A
2020-2021 (Saunders/Finch) - 26th in DRtg/A
2021-2022 (Finch) - 14th in DRtg/A
2022-2023 (Finch) - 8th in DRtg/A
I am shocked that we are top 10ish for the last couple years based on that rating considering Towns and DLO are widely considered sub par defenders. Is that stat directionally correct? What's the best way to measure team defense each year?
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Monster, if he could easily be moved in a trade he would be gone already. When you are talking aging vets like Conley and Lowry as trade possibilities, it's clear he doesn't have much value. You sign him to a 3 or 4 year deal at above market value, I think he would be nearly impossible to trade.
Cool what would you say is Russell's market value?
It's enhanced because he is an expiring contract. But in terms of what he can fetch, I'm guessing Lowry/Conley and maybe a 2nd.
Thanks for the response. I think those teams would probably do that deal because at worst they dump salary for guys that are getting older.
I was actually asking what you thought in terms of market value for Russell in terms of salary next season and beyond.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:
How many years have we been if we only had a Top 10 defense our offense is so good? Well right now were sitting here #9 overall. Since January they are 3rd in Defensive rating. But I guess Rudy has no part in that.
I always use statmuse to ask my question
But it shows wolves at a 112.2 defensive raiting since January first.
But hell the 21-22 team that was fully healthy all year finished #12
Wolves Record without KAT 2020-2022 6-24
2022-2023 19-16 but hey lets only give credit to half the team besides Rudy
I found that interesting. Can you post your source/link? I don't really look at team ratings that much. I just went to Basketball Reference and found the Timberwolves Defensive Rating has improved each year under Finch. It doesn't seem like it - but maybe it's all relative. Here's what I found when looking at "Adjusted Defensive Team Rating" for the last five years:
2019-2020 (Thibodeaux/Saunders) - 21st in DRtg/A
2020-2021 (Saunders/Finch) - 26th in DRtg/A
2021-2022 (Finch) - 14th in DRtg/A
2022-2023 (Finch) - 8th in DRtg/A
I am shocked that we are top 10ish for the last couple years based on that rating considering Towns and DLO are widely considered sub par defenders. Is that stat directionally correct? What's the best way to measure team defense each year?
I use statmuse to ask my question so nba team defensive rating rankings since january 1st 2023
lipoli390 wrote:Talk about trading DLO by the deadline remains rampant. We're seeing more chatter about trading KAT, which we can't do until after the season. Then there's the elephant in the room - Rudy Gobert. The Wolves bet the farm on him and owe him max money over the next three years as he advances into his 30s. The trade that brought him here hasn't helped the team win. This team is barely over .500 and slightly under .500 in games he's played - both with and without KAT. Individually, he hasn't been the same player defensively he was in Utah. His offensive limitations are stark and his clumsiness with the ball a bit stunning. The deal hasn't worked - at least not up to this point with 26 games remaining.
I think we should stick with the group we have, including Gobert, until the end of the season and see if this team can pull off a finish like last season, in which case we'd finish with about the same record. However, if the Wolves want to make a major deal before the deadline, they should move Gobert. I suggest a deal with the Nets. Gobert, Nowell and Forbes to the Nets in exchange for Claxton, O'Neal, Joe Harris, the Dallas first-round pick they received in the Irving deal and the Nets' 2026 2nd-round pick.
Kat and Rudy have like 10-15 games so how can we possibly judge if this a success or not.
If you watch every game it's clear this team defense is a dumpster fire when Rudy goes to the bench. All you have to see is Kek constant 5 straight basket posts when Rudy leaves the game. There is at least one per game.
I will maintain this line or thinking if Kat and the rest of the group missed this many games last season this team would've been top 5 in the lottery. But know we finally have team that can withstand arguably there best player going down for pretty much whole season and still have chance make playoffs if not even host playoff series and we still bitching and want to trade the guy we got to make that happen.
There's no evidence that Rudy has kept this team afloat without KAT. We have a better winning percentage in the games Rudy wasn't playing. You can point to the record of the teams we beat when Rudy was out, but that still doesn't provide any evidence that Rudy has done more than Vanderbilt, Beverley and Beasley would have done in KAT's absence. Yes, our defense is better when Rudy's on the court, but our offense is worse. Moreover, we have a worse defensive rating as a team this season than last and I doubt that's because of KAT's absence.
The guy who has kept us afloat is Edwards. He's been helped by the improved play of McDaniels, the excellent steady play of Kyle Anderson and the terrific play of DLO the last six seeks.
How many years have we been if we only had a Top 10 defense our offense is so good? Well right now were sitting here #9 overall. Since January they are 3rd in Defensive rating. But I guess Rudy has no part in that.
But hell the 21-22 team that was fully healthy all year finished #12
Wolves Record without KAT 2020-2022 6-24
2022-2023 19-16 but hey lets only give credit to half the team besides Rudy
Of course Rudy has a lot to do with those numbers. Blocked shots are only a part of the story...altered shots or layups avoided because the big guy is lurking are even more important.
Even though Nowell and Russell get ripped a lot here for their defense, I actually think the two of them are a big reason for our big improvement in defense during January. Yes, Nowell does seem to have at least one head-scratching moment every game, but I have praised both of them in the past month for their improved defense. Both of them seem to be defending the perimeter so much better than the first half of the season, and I've also seen more hustle by DLo getting back on defense.
Yes, Rudy and Jaden are the straws that stir our defensive drink, but a defense can only be as good as its weakest links, and I like what I've seen from our two weakest links in 2023. Whether it's sustainable is anyone's guess.
Giving up the players/assets necessary to acquire Fred VanVleet and then having to near-max him at 29-years old on his next contract while he's already showing signs of decline would be a perfect way for Tim Connelly to follow up trading Walker Kessler and four first-round picks for Rudy Gobert on a supermax deal.
Giving up the players/assets necessary to acquire Fred VanVleet and then having to near-max him at 29-years old on his next contract while he's already showing signs of decline would be a perfect way for Tim Connelly to follow up trading Walker Kessler and four first-round picks for Rudy Gobert on a supermax deal.
Seriously, we should not wish for that.
Gotta agree. Out of all the NBA players who have been able to extend their careers in recent years... VanVleet does not seem like an ideal candidate to do so.
