Minnesota Sports Forum

Camden wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

Camden wrote:I believe there was legitimate interest from Toronto, Sacramento and Brooklyn (obviously). Just my gut based on everything I've read. There's probably a good chance that we could have gotten better from a different team. It's just Flip's love affair with Garnett that swung this move.

Come on, Cam. A good chance? You really believe Flip turned down better deals from Toronto and Sac-town because of his fondness for KG? That's folly. I haven't heard one credible offer for Thad, so any suggestion that better offers existed is empty, meaningless speculation. Let's face it...there just isn't much of a market for PFs who average 5.5 boards per 36.

You actually believe KG was the best we could get for Thad? Are you saying that without laughing behind your keyboard?

And PS: We didn't hear much about any of the deals that actually happened today beforehand. What makes you think there wasn't a market for Young? Seriously?

When I first heard reliable information that Flip wanted to move thad before the deadline, I was on board...but I was skeptical about what we were going to get back. My expectations were very low, and I was prepared for a return that wasn't going to move the needle much. You and I see Thad Young differently. I haven't heard you ever agree with the board consensus that he is a horrid rebounder, so I think the only thing about Thad's game that we agree on is that he has some clever moves around the basket and is above average with steals on defense. I think we also agree that he is a high quality guy. But the holes in his game combined with the size of his contract had to limit the interest in giving up much for him. Rumors on twitter today that he is likely to opt out of his contract at the end of the year had to suppress any interest there might have been in him. What is a savvy GM going to give up for 30 games of a PF that can't rebound? To me it seems that KG is about the return I would expect.

1) I don't think fans "hated" Thad. Some of us at least on this board just felt he wasn't a good fit here.

2) The Wolves never entered "full rebuild mode". Why? Pek/Rubio/Martin. Full rebuild mode is tearing it down to the studs which never occurred.

3) Surrounding a superstar.. lmao wtf are you talking about? Look at the age of our players... Guys that are good already or have good/great potential: Rubio, Wiggins, Bazz, Lavine, Dieng, and then Bennett & Payne have chances to be solid or better.

4) Exactly Doper.. talent only gets you so far. Coaching can make or break careers

I can definitely see a Wiggins benefiting from KG because he's almost in the EXACT same situation as KG was when he first came into Minnesota (in fact, it's an eerily similar cast of characters -- Taylor, Flip, KG, Mitchell...). Wiggins also seems to have a proclivity to defend - he just needs a good kick in the ass now and again to fight harder for buckets and run the floor. So I'll give you that one.

Otherwise.....I just don't know. It will be interesting to see how Payne and AB respond to all of this. They both have a big-time opportunity to get more minutes at PF. I have a bad feeling Flip the Coach ends up having to dip back into the Robbie Hummel at PF well again. Ugh.

longstrangetrip wrote:

Camden wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

Camden wrote:I believe there was legitimate interest from Toronto, Sacramento and Brooklyn (obviously). Just my gut based on everything I've read. There's probably a good chance that we could have gotten better from a different team. It's just Flip's love affair with Garnett that swung this move.

Come on, Cam. A good chance? You really believe Flip turned down better deals from Toronto and Sac-town because of his fondness for KG? That's folly. I haven't heard one credible offer for Thad, so any suggestion that better offers existed is empty, meaningless speculation. Let's face it...there just isn't much of a market for PFs who average 5.5 boards per 36.

You actually believe KG was the best we could get for Thad? Are you saying that without laughing behind your keyboard?

And PS: We didn't hear much about any of the deals that actually happened today beforehand. What makes you think there wasn't a market for Young? Seriously?

When I first heard reliable information that Flip wanted to move thad before the deadline, I was on board...but I was skeptical about what we were going to get back. My expectations were very low, and I was prepared for a return that wasn't going to move the needle much. You and I see Thad Young differently. I haven't heard you ever agree with the board consensus that he is a horrid rebounder, so I think the only thing about Thad's game that we agree on is that he has some clever moves around the basket and is above average with steals on defense. I think we also agree that he is a high quality guy. But the holes in his game combined with the size of his contract had to limit the interest in giving up much for him. Rumors on twitter today that he is likely to opt out of his contract at the end of the year had to suppress any interest there might have been in him. What is a savvy GM going to give up for 30 games of a PF that can't rebound? To me it seems that KG is about the return I would expect.

This is a great post LST. We always think we know the business realities looking from the outside. The rumors about interest for a player mean nothing. Plain and simple, if it is Thad v KG for these last 30 games. What is the difference?

thedoper wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

Camden wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

Camden wrote:I believe there was legitimate interest from Toronto, Sacramento and Brooklyn (obviously). Just my gut based on everything I've read. There's probably a good chance that we could have gotten better from a different team. It's just Flip's love affair with Garnett that swung this move.

Come on, Cam. A good chance? You really believe Flip turned down better deals from Toronto and Sac-town because of his fondness for KG? That's folly. I haven't heard one credible offer for Thad, so any suggestion that better offers existed is empty, meaningless speculation. Let's face it...there just isn't much of a market for PFs who average 5.5 boards per 36.

You actually believe KG was the best we could get for Thad? Are you saying that without laughing behind your keyboard?

And PS: We didn't hear much about any of the deals that actually happened today beforehand. What makes you think there wasn't a market for Young? Seriously?

When I first heard reliable information that Flip wanted to move thad before the deadline, I was on board...but I was skeptical about what we were going to get back. My expectations were very low, and I was prepared for a return that wasn't going to move the needle much. You and I see Thad Young differently. I haven't heard you ever agree with the board consensus that he is a horrid rebounder, so I think the only thing about Thad's game that we agree on is that he has some clever moves around the basket and is above average with steals on defense. I think we also agree that he is a high quality guy. But the holes in his game combined with the size of his contract had to limit the interest in giving up much for him. Rumors on twitter today that he is likely to opt out of his contract at the end of the year had to suppress any interest there might have been in him. What is a savvy GM going to give up for 30 games of a PF that can't rebound? To me it seems that KG is about the return I would expect.

This is a great post LST. We always think we know the business realities looking from the outside. The rumors about interest for a player mean nothing. Plain and simple, if it is Thad v KG for these last 30 games. What is the difference?

Yeah, that's the summary...what is the difference between Thad and KG for the last 30 games? What we know is that we will get fewer points and more rebounds out of the PF position. We also will likely get more butts in the seats at TC and more energy, so it's a win there for season ticket holders and scalpers ( and a loss for guys like me that love to buy cheap on the streets). Everything beyond that is conjecture. Some of us hope that as a ring-winning HOFer, KG will be am inspirational role model for our young players...teach them that good things come from working hard all the time. Some of us hope that KG's brilliance about team defense will serve as a good coach on the court...lord knows we need it. But we don't know...we can only hope.

Kevin Pelton Trade Grades

Brooklyn Nets: A

Even at age 38, Garnett remains one of the league's better defenders, and in a vacuum I'm not sure he's worse than Young. (ESPN's real plus-minus favors Garnett.) For the Nets specifically, however, this trade is an on-court upgrade. Brooklyn had three players who were truly centers in Garnett, Brook Lopez and Mason Plumlee, making it difficult to play two of the three together. In Young, the Nets get an athletic 4 (if not necessarily a stretch 4) who pairs well with their traditional big men.

The bigger win might be financial, since Young is making $2.6 million less than Garnett this season. While that's less than $900,000 in salary over the remainder of the season, luxury-tax calculations are based on the final team salary, not salary paid. Since Brooklyn is in the tax bracket where salary is taxed at 2.5 times its cost, that means this trade saved the Nets nearly $6.5 million in tax payments, by my math, for a total savings of almost $7.5 million. To accomplish that without giving up a pick is almost unthinkable. There's a slight risk that Young opts into his contract for 2015-16, which would push Brooklyn into tax territory. Barring that, though, it's a huge positive for the Nets.

Minnesota Timberwolves: C

There's really no harm here for the Timberwolves. Young was nearly certain to leave next summer, and the rest of this season doesn't matter to Minnesota. So if the Timberwolves couldn't get any picks for Young -- a reasonable possibility, given the market -- bringing Garnett back home to finish his career and mentor the team's young players is understandable. Flip Saunders' real mistake was dealing for Young last summer as part of the Kevin Love trade. Back in those more optimistic days, Minnesota dreamed of a run at a playoff spot.

Even before injuries took starters Ricky Rubio, Kevin Martin and Nikola Pekovic out of the lineup for an extended period, it wasn't realistic for the Wolves to win the 45-plus games that will be required to make the Western Conference playoffs. Minnesota gave up the Miami Heat's first-round pick (top-10 protected) to get Young from the Philadelphia 76ers, and while that no longer looks quite as valuable in the wake of the Goran Dragic trade, it's still likely to fall somewhere between 15 and 20. To turn that into four months of Young and two months of Garnett is front-office malpractice.

longstrangetrip wrote:

TheGrey08 wrote:Seriously.. some of you need to just go to fucking BED......

But, but I haven't even had dinner yet...

haha, I just couldn't take the junk on the first page of the thread without saying something.

This whole trade is basically a wash from a basketball standpoint. We're talking the most benefit coming from a financial standpoint for both MN and Brooklyn. Brooklyn lowers their tax bill and can spy a guy they might try to bring back cheaper next year and is a better fit than KG was (too many centers). MN gets a feel-good opportunity with some teaching elements to it. What MN is getting financially is a guarantee Thad won't opt-in, and while it's not true-to-form cap relief, it's a form I'm glad to have with Ricky's extension kicking in. We should be up against or a bit above the cap next year with the roster as currently constructed (and no KG extension) and our cap holds.

And heck, maybe KG can teach someone to play some defense on this team since nobody other than Rubio actually talks out there.

Should Thad opt-out and re-sign at $6M per year with the Nets, how does that change your view of this trade, if at all?

Fantastic move I couldn't not be more excited about the trade! I think it's time Flip get's the credit he deserves. I never thought KG would actually be back as a player. We've been lacking a defensive identity for a long time and it's really the one big issue Flip had not be able to fix. Now we've got a guy capable of bringing intensity on that end of the court so hopefully that rubs off on his teammates.