Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:

- I'm straight down the middle on this. One "side" has overblown the risk of the virus by obsessing over confirmed case counts and using that as the denominator in calculating death rates (when we damn-well know that the real case count is about 5-7X whatever the confirmed count is), which in turn leads to an unrealistic dream of "zero covid" and the accompanying draconian policies. The other "side" tends to brush it all off as a nothingburger that natural immunity by itself can take care of, which in turn leads to disastrous results for the immune-compromised and older folks, neither of which live in a bubble from the rest of society. Both "sides" are wrong in my opinion!

Stop it, Q.

I don't care how much you try to flirt with me by pandering to me... I'm not putting out.

TheGrey08 wrote:Well said FNG. I didn't touch on the mask side of things, but it's absolutely political when it shouldn't be. Just look at how common they are in East Asia. They feel sick, they wear a mask in public, it's no big deal. I moved from Minneapolis to Rice Lake WI back in May.

Side note: maaaan I still cant believe I live in WI after 36 years in MN lol. (We found a really nice house and 10 wooded acres close to half way between our families.. happy wife happy life, etc). Thankfully I'm still in the Twin cities TV market.

Anyway, we immediately noticed how people acted in WI to masks and even got a couple comments from locals to ditch the masks early in the summer. Indicating that mask wearers are out of towners. It's just crazy to me how people can be so negative or butthurt about wearing a stupid mask. They suck to wear when it's hot, especially being someone who wears glasses, but I suck it up and do it when I have to. As you pointed out, if slight inconvenience helps the greater public, so be it.

Don't disagree. But let's face it, a lot of our public institutions and coastal media have lost a ton of credibility in the past 5 years and so when folks hear people from these places lecture them about the need to get vaccinated or wear masks, they automatically recoil. It's no different than when (some) folks on the left automatically recoiled when Trump put in place Warp Speed, "I'll never get a shot that was rushed through by Donald Trump! The horror!!!". Of course once Biden became President, it became perfectly safe!

Neither position is rational in my opinion, but a lot of the "experts" and the media through which their expertise is disseminated have not done themselves any favors with the general public. The result is mis-trust and politization of matters that simply shouldn't be politicized. It's really unfortunate.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

- I'm straight down the middle on this. One "side" has overblown the risk of the virus by obsessing over confirmed case counts and using that as the denominator in calculating death rates (when we damn-well know that the real case count is about 5-7X whatever the confirmed count is), which in turn leads to an unrealistic dream of "zero covid" and the accompanying draconian policies. The other "side" tends to brush it all off as a nothingburger that natural immunity by itself can take care of, which in turn leads to disastrous results for the immune-compromised and older folks, neither of which live in a bubble from the rest of society. Both "sides" are wrong in my opinion!

Stop it, Q.

I don't care how much you try to flirt with me by pandering to me... I'm not putting out.

Abe, I'm trying to draw you out on two fronts! Check out the Vikings thread! I know you can't help yourself!

Kyrie will not be at media day because of the NY mandate.

Another player currently unable to play in home games

FNG wrote:

So let's be honest. Isn't this uproar about vaxxing and masks really only about politics...not logic?

Whoa... I might have to reconsider my choice for the Homecoming dance. FNG weaseling in on Q's territory.

As an addendum to my post above where I suggest that politics might be the most significant factor in determining one's position on vaxxing and masks:

At the risk of sounding sickeningly bipartisan, let me point out that neither side is immune to letting their politics cloud their thinking. When George Bush signed the Patriot Act into law shortly after the terrorist attacks of 9/11, it was many liberals who whined about the government taking away our freedoms. Yeah, the measures put into place 20 years ago still are annoying, but they have also kept us safe for two decades. Liberals complained about this reduction in their precious freedoms not because of solid reasoning, but mostly because it was Bush's idea. And their opinion was wrong. Similarly I would argue again that the candidate someone voted for in the 2020 elections is far more often than not the determining factor in how that person feels about vax/mask mandates.

Politics led otherwise-smart liberals to the wrong conclusion 20 years ago, and are leading otherwise-smart conservatives to the wrong conclusion today. It's sad, and we need to be better than that.

FNG wrote:Politics led otherwise-smart liberals to the wrong conclusion 20 years ago, and are leading otherwise-smart conservatives to the wrong conclusion today. It's sad, and we need to be better than that.

FNG, conservatives aren't wrong here. And for the sake of accuracy, I'll reiterate that their positions are not anti-vaccine or anti-mask, but they are anti-mandate and in support of individual liberties. There are no conservatives banning or speaking against the right to wear masks or receive vaccines. Zero. Those are personal decisions that each American can make for themselves (and their children if they are parents). Furthermore, those are decisions that should not determine whether or not you receive employment or a proper education. Those are the battles that the conservative side is having. The right is fighting for the American people to continue with their lives and receive the medical treatment that they deem necessary for themselves. The left is fighting for... big pharma, media conglomerates, diminishing basic human rights of Americans, and mandatory medical treatment for a virus regardless of natural immunity. You're right. It is sad and everyone should be better than that.

Camden wrote:

FNG wrote:Politics led otherwise-smart liberals to the wrong conclusion 20 years ago, and are leading otherwise-smart conservatives to the wrong conclusion today. It's sad, and we need to be better than that.

FNG, conservatives aren't wrong here. And for the sake of accuracy, I'll reiterate that their positions are not anti-vaccine or anti-mask, but they are anti-mandate and in support of individual liberties. There are no conservatives banning or speaking against the right to wear masks or receive vaccines. Zero. Those are personal decisions that each American can make for themselves (and their children if they are parents). Furthermore, those are decisions that should not determine whether or not you receive employment or a proper education. Those are the battles that the conservative side is having. The right is fighting for the American people to continue with their lives and receive the medical treatment that they deem necessary for themselves. The left is fighting for... big pharma, media conglomerates, diminishing basic human rights of Americans, and mandatory medical treatment for a virus regardless of natural immunity. You're right. It is sad and everyone should be better than that.

No, I get it, Cam...this is anti-mandate. But I'm curious about how you feel about other mandates the government has forced on us in the interest of keeping us safe. What are your thoughts about speed limits, stoplights and stop signs, smoking limitations, Patriot Act regulations, etc.? All of these things restrict our freedoms, but I would argue that it was only when we became so polarized as a country politically (perhaps the turn of this century) that we began to complain about common sense measures designed to keep us safe. The data tells us that these restrictions keep us safe (even though liberals whined about the Patriot Act and conservatives largely whine about mask/vax mandates), and polling tells us that who we voted for correlates strongly to whether we support a government regulation or not. I find that very disappointing, and very sad.

Q12543 wrote:
Don't disagree. But let's face it, a lot of our public institutions and coastal media have lost a ton of credibility in the past 5 years and so when folks hear people from these places lecture them about the need to get vaccinated or wear masks, they automatically recoil. It's no different than when (some) folks on the left automatically recoiled when Trump put in place Warp Speed, "I'll never get a shot that was rushed through by Donald Trump! The horror!!!". Of course once Biden became President, it became perfectly safe!

Neither position is rational in my opinion, but a lot of the "experts" and the media through which their expertise is disseminated have not done themselves any favors with the general public. The result is mis-trust and politization of matters that simply shouldn't be politicized. It's really unfortunate.

Fair point about the tribal nonsense that has gotten a lot worse the past 20 years. I understand initial recoils towards someone you don't trust, but at the same time.. making a decision against something just because some loud mouth on the other side of the argument is in favor of it is frankly stupid and childish. We see this all the time where one group is in favor of something until another group they see as their opponent starts favoring it. It's ridiculous and I'm sooo over it, but sadly nothing will change their until our politics stop being controlled by 2 powerful parties. If someone does something good, I'm going to say it's good. Like I feel Trump was the worst POTUS in my life time by a massive margin, but even he did some good things.

No doubt there were some who swapped on the vaccine when Biden won, but lets also acknowledge that it is harder to trust someone who spent years shitting on/ignoring trained scientists/medical experts when they say oh yeah this new thing is great. That's where we have to take a step back and consult the actual experts and not the mouth pieces in media/politics.

The real fun will start when people knowingly spread Covid. It is illegal to knowingly spread HIV, which coincidentally now has a death rate lower than Covid in developed countries. What will be the penalty when someone dies of Covid from someone who knowingly gave it to them? The coming lawsuits are going to be something to watch.