Wolves trade for Pat Beverly

[Lipoli390]

I'll repeat a question I posed earlier when considering whether we would offer DLO/Beasley for Simmons. Which starting 5 would you rather begin the season with?

KAT
Simmons
Jaden
Ant
Beverley

or

KAT
Vando
Jaden
Ant
DLO

It's a pretty easy answer for me. It's also clear to me that this discussion is irrelevant, because Philly would have no interest in this deal. There still holding out for a Lillard-like deal, and I can't see how the wolves get into that conversation...even with another team involved.

I like your Simmons starting five better, but not by much. The DLO lineup has 3 potent scorers/3-point shooters. The Simmons lineup has two. The Simmons line up would make it more difficult for KAT to operate in the paint and for Edwards to have driving lanes. So it's pretty close in my mind. But the main kicker for me is that your starting five would come with other baggage. We wouldn't have Beasley coming off the bench and we'd be without at least two future 1st round picks - probably more. I also suspect we'd be without Jaden.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'll repeat a question I posed earlier when considering whether we would offer DLO/Beasley for Simmons. Which starting 5 would you rather begin the season with?

KAT
Simmons
Jaden
Ant
Beverley

or

KAT
Vando
Jaden
Ant
DLO

It's a pretty easy answer for me. It's also clear to me that this discussion is irrelevant, because Philly would have no interest in this deal. There still holding out for a Lillard-like deal, and I can't see how the wolves get into that conversation...even with another team involved.

If nothing else... it would be startling at how much better the starters would be on defense... at least on paper. As it is, Finch said the Wolves could be near "average" defensively if everything/everybody panned out. As we know, that's a reach and rarely works out ideally. I think Finch is fully aware of the limitations on that side of the court with a young Edwards, Towns, Russell and Beasley all getting heavy minutes.

Simmons is an exceptional multi-positional defender. We all were impressed with early returns from McDaniels. And Beverley comes with a defensive pedigree, even if it's more bark than bite at this point. They'd be hurting on offense with that lineup though unless Edwards proves to be truly transcendent and I just don't think he's ready for that in year 2.

Admittedly, part of my willingness to roll with Simmons is to jettison Russell who I just don't care for all that much. He's good, but I don't see him with the necessary ceiling to take the team to the next level. More importantly (for me), I simply don't dig his style of play or demeanor. And on a message board where we opine about our favorite team... that matters. Simmons offers a higher ceiling... and I don't think his floor is lower than Russell's.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'll repeat a question I posed earlier when considering whether we would offer DLO/Beasley for Simmons. Which starting 5 would you rather begin the season with?

KAT
Simmons
Jaden
Ant
Beverley

or

KAT
Vando
Jaden
Ant
DLO

It's a pretty easy answer for me. It's also clear to me that this discussion is irrelevant, because Philly would have no interest in this deal. There still holding out for a Lillard-like deal, and I can't see how the wolves get into that conversation...even with another team involved.

I like your Simmons starting five better, but not by much. The DLO lineup has 3 potent scorers/3-point shooters. The Simmons lineup has two. The Simmons line up would make it more difficult for KAT to operate in the paint and for Edwards to have driving lanes. So it's pretty close in my mind. But the main kicker for me is that your starting five would come with other baggage. We wouldn't have Beasley coming off the bench and we'd be without at least two future 1st round picks - probably more. I also suspect we'd be without Jaden.

While Embiid seems to have panned out ok with the other things Simmons brings... and Towns offers more accuracy and range... the obvious elephant in the room which you bring up is the residual stuff/assets that would have to be thrown in.

McDaniels?
Multiple picks?
Many bags of chips?

I can see the hesitancy if that list gets too long considering the very obvious (and very publicized) shortcomings that Simmons brings and his seemingly lack of offensive improvement over the past four years.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

DLO has two more years on his deal - not a ton of time left. We know that teams that ultimately win titles begin their ascent with a very different roster than when they ultimately reach the promised land. Isn't Giannis and Middleton really the only two constants in the Bucks long climb? Jordan and Pippen were the only two constants in the Bulls' six titles. Toronto had only one constant in Kyle Lowry.

I think the question is can we at least get headed down the right path with DLO on the roster and essentially begin our ascent OR is his contract and lackadaisical defense/demeanor such an albatross that he holds the entire franchise back?

I think it's the former. While he's a terrible defender, he doesn't seem to be a toxic personality and overall seems like a pretty good teammate. I personally think he can be part of the puzzle right now and ultimately be replaced by a different puzzle piece in a year or two.

[AbeVigodaLive]

DLO has two more years on his deal - not a ton of time left. We know that teams that ultimately win titles begin their ascent with a very different roster than when they ultimately reach the promised land. Isn't Giannis and Middleton really the only two constants in the Bucks long climb? Jordan and Pippen were the only two constants in the Bulls' six titles. Toronto had only one constant in Kyle Lowry.

I think the question is can we at least get headed down the right path with DLO on the roster and essentially begin our ascent OR is his contract and lackadaisical defense/demeanor such an albatross that he holds the entire franchise back?

I think it's the former. While he's a terrible defender, he doesn't seem to be a toxic personality and overall seems like a pretty good teammate. I personally think he can be part of the puzzle right now and ultimately be replaced by a different puzzle piece in a year or two.

Maybe. Might depend on whether the Wolves are good enough to make the playoffs with Russell. As we've seen countless times (even with Towns in '18), it can take time for players and teams to figure out just what the hell they're doing in the playoffs.

Personally, I don't think this version is good enough for a playoff berth... definitely not a run. And in today's very transient NBA, there just isn't as much time to build a longstanding nucleus.

Sincerely hope I'm wrong though. Having winning basketball around here would be a nice change of pace and pretty damn fun.

[TheGrey08]

The biggest issue I see with the whole Simmons discussion is his salary.
He's due 33m, 35.4m, 37.9m and 40.3m the next 4 seasons and UFA after '24/'25.
D'Lo due 30m, 31.4m, UFA after '22/'23.

Sure sending out D'Lo would offset most of Simmons contract (I don't see this as being likely at all), and we don't know what D'Lo would command in his next deal but damn.. 35-40m on a guy who across the board, FT included, cannot shoot? I just don't know about that. Then you factor in losing the scoring/shooting of a Beasley + other assets/picks and I think it becomes tough to swallow and I don't know how they would maneuver the cap the next 4 years.

I get that he's an elite play maker and defender, but have there been other players with similar skillsets that were paid such a massive % of their team's cap? I just see his cap figure as a typical NBA overpay based on the hopes of what he MIGHT end up producing. I just can't help, but absolutely hate these deals that the NBA constantly sees.

I can't help, but feel they should stay away from it baring his cost coming drastically down and moving forward with talented group they currently have including V8 and another FA big.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

It's not that I wouldn't want Ben Simmons on this Wolves team. It's that I think the timing is weird/wrong. And yes, I realize that timing has everything to do with why Simmons is even available right now. I think Minnesota still needs to see what they have with this current group plus tweaks before making a splash that involves trading two or possibly more of their most valuable assets (players and picks) away. A trade of that magnitude creates an entirely new team -- a new blueprint or model -- when we don't know yet if what we have now is incapable of getting to where we want to go.

I think Gersson Rosas should prove his patience is legitimate and that the talent he's accumulated in just two years is significant. Look at the roster he took over and compare it to this one. It's much, much better and he deserves credit for that. The issue is that we still don't know if it's a winner. Even if he just waits until the trade deadline to reevaluate the Simmons possibility, that would be wise, in my opinion.

[AbeVigodaLive]

The biggest issue I see with the whole Simmons discussion is his salary.
He's due 33m, 35.4m, 37.9m and 40.3m the next 4 seasons and UFA after '24/'25.
D'Lo due 30m, 31.4m, UFA after '22/'23.

Sure sending out D'Lo would offset most of Simmons contract (I don't see this as being likely at all), and we don't know what D'Lo would command in his next deal but damn.. 35-40m on a guy who across the board, FT included, cannot shoot? I just don't know about that. Then you factor in losing the scoring/shooting of a Beasley + other assets/picks and I think it becomes tough to swallow and I don't know how they would maneuver the cap the next 4 years.

I get that he's an elite play maker and defender, but have there been other players with similar skillsets that were paid such a massive % of their team's cap? I just see his cap figure as a typical NBA overpay based on the hopes of what he MIGHT end up producing. I just can't help, but absolutely hate these deals that the NBA constantly sees.

I can't help, but feel they should stay away from it baring his cost coming drastically down and moving forward with talented group they currently have including V8 and another FA big.

Sure... but remember Simmons at one time was a guy who along with Embiid (and their alleged poor spacing) won 17 straight games... including 9 straight from Simmons without Embiid... which even included a playoff victory.

So Simmons-led teams without Embiid have exactly as many playoff victories over the past 18 seasons as the entire Wolves franchise.

Now that being said, Simmons has plateaued or even regressed a bit offensively. And while it's easy to dismiss the sample size... just what was going through his head in the playoffs when his FT% plummeted from 61% to an embarrassing and almost unheard-of 34%.

My biggest question of that is how a player recovers from such a highly publicized issue that obviously was mostly in his head in the first place... Physically. Fit. Ability. Potential. He's clearly been a difference maker in ways Russell and Beasley never have been nor probably will be. But will headcase stuff take over his career.

[TheGrey08]

Sure... but remember Simmons at one time was a guy who along with Embiid (and their alleged poor spacing) won 17 straight games... including 9 straight from Simmons without Embiid... which even included a playoff victory.

So Simmons-led teams without Embiid have exactly as many playoff victories over the past 18 seasons as the entire Wolves franchise.

Now that being said, Simmons has plateaued or even regressed a bit offensively. And while it's easy to dismiss the sample size... just what was going through his head in the playoffs when his FT% plummeted from 61% to an embarrassing and almost unheard-of 34%.

My biggest question of that is how a player recovers from such a highly publicized issue that obviously was mostly in his head in the first place... Physically. Fit. Ability. Potential. He's clearly been a difference maker in ways Russell and Beasley never have been nor probably will be. But will headcase stuff take over his career.

Definitely fair points that need to be factored into it as well. The regression as well as his cap hit are the main things that give me pause besides the asset cost going out. Pure basketball wise I don't doubt him being a damn good fit here if they can maintain shooting. I just don't know how they manage all these huge cap hits.

[Monster]

It's not that I wouldn't want Ben Simmons on this Wolves team. It's that I think the timing is weird/wrong. And yes, I realize that timing has everything to do with why Simmons is even available right now. I think Minnesota still needs to see what they have with this current group plus tweaks before making a splash that involves trading two or possibly more of their most valuable assets (players and picks) away. A trade of that magnitude creates an entirely new team -- a new blueprint or model -- when we don't know yet if what we have now is incapable of getting to where we want to go.

I think Gersson Rosas should prove his patience is legitimate and that the talent he's accumulated in just two years is significant. Look at the roster he took over and compare it to this one. It's much, much better and he deserves credit for that. The issue is that we still don't know if it's a winner. Even if he just waits until the trade deadline to reevaluate the Simmons possibility, that would be wise, in my opinion.

I actually agree here mostly because so think most of us agree that acquiring Simmons will cost enough assets to as you well say changes the blueprint of the team not just adding Simmons but other players being gone. I think Rosas should still be checking in on the situation from time to time which probably isn't hard to do since he likely stil has a good relationship with Morey. "Hey Daryl are you ready to trade Simmons yet?" We hear a lot about how sometimes these trades take a lot of time to come together. You never know what team might decide to get involved and make a deal work for both teams. Like you said I am ready to see what this team is or possibly isn't and make some adjustments from there. What if Bolmaro turns out to be some sort of important piece in some regard right away? What if Vanderbilt becomes Draymond lite? What If Naz becomes a legit starting level layer of 6th man type impact guy on a contending team? What if Towns or Edwards starts playing on an MVP level? I'm not expecting any of these things but they aren't wildly outrageous either. There are quite a few paths for this current roster to take a big step and as you said now isn't the right tile for Simmons at the price that I think to some extent rightly so the Sixers are going to ask for him. Even though he costs a lot more money I think Simmons is worth twice what Denver paid in assets (basically 2 first round picks) for Aaron Gordon.