Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Duke13 wrote:Unfortunately, it's not just Kat who does this. Butler does it all the time, the ball will be rotated to him on the 3 pt line, defender not within 7 ft from him, he will pump fake nobody and dribble right into a defender. You would think the coaches would inform the players that the shot fake doesn't work unless you're guarded or someone is aggressively closing out on you. Butler and Teague do this a lot. You get an open spot up 3 off ball rotation, SHOOT THE F'ing BALL!!!

How much is on the player... and how much on the preferred style in messages from above?

With KAT, I can't help but think they don't want him shooting out there too much. Maybe it's PTSD from the early Kevin Love years... or maybe it's because even Jim Pete rips some of those shots (which leads me to think he's clued in on the Wolves preferences)... or maybe just my imagination.

KAT looks like he's always debating whether to take those or not. He used to pump fake... and then mess up his rhythm when he did take them. At least now, he either shoots it or drives... avoiding those out of rhythm misses. But you can hear the gears working in there when he gets open behind the arc sometimes.

But the game has changed. EVERYBODY knows this now. An open 3 point shot for 35% shooters HAS to taken. It simply has to happen. EVERY time. Welcome to 2018 NBA basketball. Heck, welcome to 2016 NBA basketball.

longstrangetrip wrote:

thedoper wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I think this debate was finalized tonight. You saw why Rubio is no longer a Timberwolve, and why Teague is.

We talk a lot about the modern NBA offenses here yet some people still hold a special place for Rubio. I don't know how your primary ball handler can't score in today's game. I definitely think Rubio has a strong place in the NBA, just not as a starter at this point. Could definitely see him as a back up on the Spurs and even being a huge part of a playoff run for a team.

Doper, Ricky had a terrrible game tonight...heck, he was on the bench much of the second half because of his ineffectiveness (just like Teague was in the San Antonio game). But I"m not sure why you are concluding Ricky can't score. He's outscoring Teague 14.5 to 13 PPG, and his TS% is actually better than Teague's...52.7 to 51.7. Teague is a much better 3-point shooter this season, but Ricky has been more effective in getting to the line and making his free throws, and has made 45% of his 2-point shots as opposed to 41% for Teague. There are more ways to score in the NBA than just threes, and (other than tonight) Ricky is finding a way to score while he is struggling with his 3-pointers at a higher TS% than our PG. If he is able to get back to the three point percentage he put up the last half of last season, I expect his 14.5 PPG will go even higher.

But tonight there is no question...he was garbage.

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Duke13 wrote:Unfortunately, it's not just Kat who does this. Butler does it all the time, the ball will be rotated to him on the 3 pt line, defender not within 7 ft from him, he will pump fake nobody and dribble right into a defender. You would think the coaches would inform the players that the shot fake doesn't work unless you're guarded or someone is aggressively closing out on you. Butler and Teague do this a lot. You get an open spot up 3 off ball rotation, SHOOT THE F'ing BALL!!!

How much is on the player... and how much on the preferred style in messages from above?

With KAT, I can't help but think they don't want him shooting out there too much. Maybe it's PTSD from the early Kevin Love years... or maybe it's because even Jim Pete rips some of those shots (which leads me to think he's clued in on the Wolves preferences)... or maybe just my imagination.

KAT looks like he's always debating whether to take those or not. He used to pump fake... and then mess up his rhythm when he did take them. At least now, he either shoots it or drives... avoiding those out of rhythm misses. But you can hear the gears working in there when he gets open behind the arc sometimes.

But the game has changed. EVERYBODY knows this now. An open 3 point shot for 35% shooters HAS to taken. It simply has to happen. EVERY time. Welcome to 2018 NBA basketball. Heck, welcome to 2016 NBA basketball.

I get that he should shoot it when he's open, but I'm really against early shot clock top of the key 3's from KAT. He bricks a lot of them and then doesn't get back on defense when he's the guy at the top of the key that needs to be the first guy back. I'd rather run another action than put into play a bricked 3 with an easy transition bucket.

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Duke13 wrote:Unfortunately, it's not just Kat who does this. Butler does it all the time, the ball will be rotated to him on the 3 pt line, defender not within 7 ft from him, he will pump fake nobody and dribble right into a defender. You would think the coaches would inform the players that the shot fake doesn't work unless you're guarded or someone is aggressively closing out on you. Butler and Teague do this a lot. You get an open spot up 3 off ball rotation, SHOOT THE F'ing BALL!!!

How much is on the player... and how much on the preferred style in messages from above?

With KAT, I can't help but think they don't want him shooting out there too much. Maybe it's PTSD from the early Kevin Love years... or maybe it's because even Jim Pete rips some of those shots (which leads me to think he's clued in on the Wolves preferences)... or maybe just my imagination.

KAT looks like he's always debating whether to take those or not. He used to pump fake... and then mess up his rhythm when he did take them. At least now, he either shoots it or drives... avoiding those out of rhythm misses. But you can hear the gears working in there when he gets open behind the arc sometimes.

But the game has changed. EVERYBODY knows this now. An open 3 point shot for 35% shooters HAS to taken. It simply has to happen. EVERY time. Welcome to 2018 NBA basketball. Heck, welcome to 2016 NBA basketball.

I get that he should shoot it when he's open, but I'm really against early shot clock top of the key 3's from KAT. He bricks a lot of them and then doesn't get back on defense when he's the guy at the top of the key that needs to be the first guy back. I'd rather run another action than put into play a bricked 3 with an easy transition bucket.

I'm with Abe on this. KAT is our best 3-point shooter in a 3-point shooting League. When he has a good look, he needs to take it regardless of the shot-clock, unless we're trying to protect a lead late in the game. The percentages show that KAT bricks fewer threes than his teammates. As for getting back defensively, KAT is in a much better position getting back after he misses a 3 at the top of the key, then when he's pinned under the basket battling for offensive rebounds.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Duke13 wrote:Unfortunately, it's not just Kat who does this. Butler does it all the time, the ball will be rotated to him on the 3 pt line, defender not within 7 ft from him, he will pump fake nobody and dribble right into a defender. You would think the coaches would inform the players that the shot fake doesn't work unless you're guarded or someone is aggressively closing out on you. Butler and Teague do this a lot. You get an open spot up 3 off ball rotation, SHOOT THE F'ing BALL!!!

How much is on the player... and how much on the preferred style in messages from above?

With KAT, I can't help but think they don't want him shooting out there too much. Maybe it's PTSD from the early Kevin Love years... or maybe it's because even Jim Pete rips some of those shots (which leads me to think he's clued in on the Wolves preferences)... or maybe just my imagination.

KAT looks like he's always debating whether to take those or not. He used to pump fake... and then mess up his rhythm when he did take them. At least now, he either shoots it or drives... avoiding those out of rhythm misses. But you can hear the gears working in there when he gets open behind the arc sometimes.

But the game has changed. EVERYBODY knows this now. An open 3 point shot for 35% shooters HAS to taken. It simply has to happen. EVERY time. Welcome to 2018 NBA basketball. Heck, welcome to 2016 NBA basketball.

I get that he should shoot it when he's open, but I'm really against early shot clock top of the key 3's from KAT. He bricks a lot of them and then doesn't get back on defense when he's the guy at the top of the key that needs to be the first guy back. I'd rather run another action than put into play a bricked 3 with an easy transition bucket.

I'm with Abe on this. KAT is our best 3-point shooter in a 3-point shooting League. When he has a good look, he needs to take it regardless of the shot-clock, unless we're trying to protect a lead late in the game. The percentages show that KAT bricks fewer threes than his teammates. As for getting back defensively, KAT is in a much better position getting back after he misses a 3 at the top of the key, then when he's pinned under the basket battling for offensive rebounds.

Yep. If KAT can't get back on D despite getting a 24-foot head start... something is VERY VERY wrong with his work ethic.

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Duke13 wrote:Unfortunately, it's not just Kat who does this. Butler does it all the time, the ball will be rotated to him on the 3 pt line, defender not within 7 ft from him, he will pump fake nobody and dribble right into a defender. You would think the coaches would inform the players that the shot fake doesn't work unless you're guarded or someone is aggressively closing out on you. Butler and Teague do this a lot. You get an open spot up 3 off ball rotation, SHOOT THE F'ing BALL!!!

How much is on the player... and how much on the preferred style in messages from above?

With KAT, I can't help but think they don't want him shooting out there too much. Maybe it's PTSD from the early Kevin Love years... or maybe it's because even Jim Pete rips some of those shots (which leads me to think he's clued in on the Wolves preferences)... or maybe just my imagination.

KAT looks like he's always debating whether to take those or not. He used to pump fake... and then mess up his rhythm when he did take them. At least now, he either shoots it or drives... avoiding those out of rhythm misses. But you can hear the gears working in there when he gets open behind the arc sometimes.

But the game has changed. EVERYBODY knows this now. An open 3 point shot for 35% shooters HAS to taken. It simply has to happen. EVERY time. Welcome to 2018 NBA basketball. Heck, welcome to 2016 NBA basketball.

I get that he should shoot it when he's open, but I'm really against early shot clock top of the key 3's from KAT. He bricks a lot of them and then doesn't get back on defense when he's the guy at the top of the key that needs to be the first guy back. I'd rather run another action than put into play a bricked 3 with an easy transition bucket.

I'm with Abe on this. KAT is our best 3-point shooter in a 3-point shooting League. When he has a good look, he needs to take it regardless of the shot-clock, unless we're trying to protect a lead late in the game. The percentages show that KAT bricks fewer threes than his teammates. As for getting back defensively, KAT is in a much better position getting back after he misses a 3 at the top of the key, then when he's pinned under the basket battling for offensive rebounds.

Yep. If KAT can't get back on D despite getting a 24-foot head start... something is VERY VERY wrong with his work ethic.

Well he stands there and watches it. Then when it misses and he's not already moving back he's already beat because most guards and wings would easily beat him down the court. That's usually why you have your wings and guards cheat back after a shot goes up. They need to create the time for the bigs to get down the court. 35% means almost 2/3 times he takes that shot the other team is going to have a prime transition opportunity when you just have to outrun a big to score. We'd be better off finding ways to set him up for corner 3's so we have the proper personnel in position to get back. You guys are looking at it from a purely offensive viewpoint and that will lead to giving a significant chunk of points back in transition that you get out of that look to begin with.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Duke13 wrote:Unfortunately, it's not just Kat who does this. Butler does it all the time, the ball will be rotated to him on the 3 pt line, defender not within 7 ft from him, he will pump fake nobody and dribble right into a defender. You would think the coaches would inform the players that the shot fake doesn't work unless you're guarded or someone is aggressively closing out on you. Butler and Teague do this a lot. You get an open spot up 3 off ball rotation, SHOOT THE F'ing BALL!!!

How much is on the player... and how much on the preferred style in messages from above?

With KAT, I can't help but think they don't want him shooting out there too much. Maybe it's PTSD from the early Kevin Love years... or maybe it's because even Jim Pete rips some of those shots (which leads me to think he's clued in on the Wolves preferences)... or maybe just my imagination.

KAT looks like he's always debating whether to take those or not. He used to pump fake... and then mess up his rhythm when he did take them. At least now, he either shoots it or drives... avoiding those out of rhythm misses. But you can hear the gears working in there when he gets open behind the arc sometimes.

But the game has changed. EVERYBODY knows this now. An open 3 point shot for 35% shooters HAS to taken. It simply has to happen. EVERY time. Welcome to 2018 NBA basketball. Heck, welcome to 2016 NBA basketball.

I get that he should shoot it when he's open, but I'm really against early shot clock top of the key 3's from KAT. He bricks a lot of them and then doesn't get back on defense when he's the guy at the top of the key that needs to be the first guy back. I'd rather run another action than put into play a bricked 3 with an easy transition bucket.

I'm with Abe on this. KAT is our best 3-point shooter in a 3-point shooting League. When he has a good look, he needs to take it regardless of the shot-clock, unless we're trying to protect a lead late in the game. The percentages show that KAT bricks fewer threes than his teammates. As for getting back defensively, KAT is in a much better position getting back after he misses a 3 at the top of the key, then when he's pinned under the basket battling for offensive rebounds.

Yep. If KAT can't get back on D despite getting a 24-foot head start... something is VERY VERY wrong with his work ethic.

Well he stands there and watches it. Then when it misses and he's not already moving back he's already beat because most guards and wings would easily beat him down the court. That's usually why you have your wings and guards cheat back after a shot goes up. They need to create the time for the bigs to get down the court. 35% means almost 2/3 times he takes that shot the other team is going to have a prime transition opportunity when you just have to outrun a big to score. We'd be better off finding ways to set him up for corner 3's so we have the proper personnel in position to get back. You guys are looking at it from a purely offensive viewpoint and that will lead to giving a significant chunk of points back in transition that you get out of that look to begin with.

Or, tell him to get back. Again... If KAT can't get back on D despite getting a 24-foot head start... something is VERY VERY wrong with his work ethic.

It seems counterproductive to take out an effective option offensively almost entirely because Towns is too lazy defensively. Changing the scheme to cover for that laziness is surely not going to hold him accountable. And that's the main thing he and Wiggins need.

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Duke13 wrote:Unfortunately, it's not just Kat who does this. Butler does it all the time, the ball will be rotated to him on the 3 pt line, defender not within 7 ft from him, he will pump fake nobody and dribble right into a defender. You would think the coaches would inform the players that the shot fake doesn't work unless you're guarded or someone is aggressively closing out on you. Butler and Teague do this a lot. You get an open spot up 3 off ball rotation, SHOOT THE F'ing BALL!!!

How much is on the player... and how much on the preferred style in messages from above?

With KAT, I can't help but think they don't want him shooting out there too much. Maybe it's PTSD from the early Kevin Love years... or maybe it's because even Jim Pete rips some of those shots (which leads me to think he's clued in on the Wolves preferences)... or maybe just my imagination.

KAT looks like he's always debating whether to take those or not. He used to pump fake... and then mess up his rhythm when he did take them. At least now, he either shoots it or drives... avoiding those out of rhythm misses. But you can hear the gears working in there when he gets open behind the arc sometimes.

But the game has changed. EVERYBODY knows this now. An open 3 point shot for 35% shooters HAS to taken. It simply has to happen. EVERY time. Welcome to 2018 NBA basketball. Heck, welcome to 2016 NBA basketball.

I get that he should shoot it when he's open, but I'm really against early shot clock top of the key 3's from KAT. He bricks a lot of them and then doesn't get back on defense when he's the guy at the top of the key that needs to be the first guy back. I'd rather run another action than put into play a bricked 3 with an easy transition bucket.

I'm with Abe on this. KAT is our best 3-point shooter in a 3-point shooting League. When he has a good look, he needs to take it regardless of the shot-clock, unless we're trying to protect a lead late in the game. The percentages show that KAT bricks fewer threes than his teammates. As for getting back defensively, KAT is in a much better position getting back after he misses a 3 at the top of the key, then when he's pinned under the basket battling for offensive rebounds.

Yep. If KAT can't get back on D despite getting a 24-foot head start... something is VERY VERY wrong with his work ethic.

Well he stands there and watches it. Then when it misses and he's not already moving back he's already beat because most guards and wings would easily beat him down the court. That's usually why you have your wings and guards cheat back after a shot goes up. They need to create the time for the bigs to get down the court. 35% means almost 2/3 times he takes that shot the other team is going to have a prime transition opportunity when you just have to outrun a big to score. We'd be better off finding ways to set him up for corner 3's so we have the proper personnel in position to get back. You guys are looking at it from a purely offensive viewpoint and that will lead to giving a significant chunk of points back in transition that you get out of that look to begin with.

Or, tell him to get back. Again... If KAT can't get back on D despite getting a 24-foot head start... something is VERY VERY wrong with his work ethic.

It seems counterproductive to take out an effective option offensively almost entirely because Towns is too lazy defensively. Changing the scheme to cover for that laziness is surely not going to hold him accountable. And that's the main thing he and Wiggins need.

It's not effective though. He's shooting 30.6% from the top of the key. That's my point. He's 3/5 from the right corner and 3/7 from the left corner. That's where most of his 3's should be coming from. So then combine that 30.6% with the fact that bigs just get beat down the court in the NBA regardless of where they start because NBA guards and wings are fast it makes even less sense. All around it's just putting him in a crappy position for a 30.6% shot. And also "just tell him to get back" hasn't worked for anyone on this team so why would it magically work for KAT?

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Duke13 wrote:Unfortunately, it's not just Kat who does this. Butler does it all the time, the ball will be rotated to him on the 3 pt line, defender not within 7 ft from him, he will pump fake nobody and dribble right into a defender. You would think the coaches would inform the players that the shot fake doesn't work unless you're guarded or someone is aggressively closing out on you. Butler and Teague do this a lot. You get an open spot up 3 off ball rotation, SHOOT THE F'ing BALL!!!

How much is on the player... and how much on the preferred style in messages from above?

With KAT, I can't help but think they don't want him shooting out there too much. Maybe it's PTSD from the early Kevin Love years... or maybe it's because even Jim Pete rips some of those shots (which leads me to think he's clued in on the Wolves preferences)... or maybe just my imagination.

KAT looks like he's always debating whether to take those or not. He used to pump fake... and then mess up his rhythm when he did take them. At least now, he either shoots it or drives... avoiding those out of rhythm misses. But you can hear the gears working in there when he gets open behind the arc sometimes.

But the game has changed. EVERYBODY knows this now. An open 3 point shot for 35% shooters HAS to taken. It simply has to happen. EVERY time. Welcome to 2018 NBA basketball. Heck, welcome to 2016 NBA basketball.

I get that he should shoot it when he's open, but I'm really against early shot clock top of the key 3's from KAT. He bricks a lot of them and then doesn't get back on defense when he's the guy at the top of the key that needs to be the first guy back. I'd rather run another action than put into play a bricked 3 with an easy transition bucket.

I'm with Abe on this. KAT is our best 3-point shooter in a 3-point shooting League. When he has a good look, he needs to take it regardless of the shot-clock, unless we're trying to protect a lead late in the game. The percentages show that KAT bricks fewer threes than his teammates. As for getting back defensively, KAT is in a much better position getting back after he misses a 3 at the top of the key, then when he's pinned under the basket battling for offensive rebounds.

Yep. If KAT can't get back on D despite getting a 24-foot head start... something is VERY VERY wrong with his work ethic.

Well he stands there and watches it. Then when it misses and he's not already moving back he's already beat because most guards and wings would easily beat him down the court. That's usually why you have your wings and guards cheat back after a shot goes up. They need to create the time for the bigs to get down the court. 35% means almost 2/3 times he takes that shot the other team is going to have a prime transition opportunity when you just have to outrun a big to score. We'd be better off finding ways to set him up for corner 3's so we have the proper personnel in position to get back. You guys are looking at it from a purely offensive viewpoint and that will lead to giving a significant chunk of points back in transition that you get out of that look to begin with.

Or, tell him to get back. Again... If KAT can't get back on D despite getting a 24-foot head start... something is VERY VERY wrong with his work ethic.

It seems counterproductive to take out an effective option offensively almost entirely because Towns is too lazy defensively. Changing the scheme to cover for that laziness is surely not going to hold him accountable. And that's the main thing he and Wiggins need.

It's not effective though. He's shooting 30.6% from the top of the key. That's my point. He's 3/5 from the right corner and 3/7 from the left corner. That's where most of his 3's should be coming from. So then combine that 30.6% with the fact that bigs just get beat down the court in the NBA regardless of where they start because NBA guards and wings are fast it makes even less sense. All around it's just putting him in a crappy position for a 30.6% shot. And also "just tell him to get back" hasn't worked for anyone on this team so why would it magically work for KAT?

Then the team will remain mired in mediocrity until (1) a coach is hired that gets them to play hard. (2) KAT and Wiggins either request to be traded, get traded or retire.

I don't know what the shooting charts show? Is he 30.6% from the top for his career? Or just this season?