kekgeek1 wrote:So there are Pat Bev for Marcus Smart rumors and I think that would be a terrible idea for what Pat Bev means for this team
Bev could be our version of Haslem. Obviously Bev is still playing at a pretty damn high level and we will desperately need him healthy and on the floor during the playoffs. But I could see a longer term role for him that morphs into player/Chief Culture Officer with the latter becoming the more prominent role as injuries and age eat away at his playing time.
It seems to me he's the type of guy that eventually wears out his welcome. A little PB can go a long way until it doesn't
AbeVigodaLive wrote:What do we want/expect from this team?
- A play-in spot? That's pretty much a sure thing barring at least one major injury.
- A playoff berth? A 7-game series is HUGE for their development.
- Does anybody really expect them to get past round 1?
Personally, I think the Wolves are about to go on a run that puts them in the mid-40s for wins as currently constructed. While that SHOULD get them to the final 8 in the playoffs... it's no guarantee.
I keep hearing about the camaraderie of this team. Enough so that there must be some legit juice behind it. So, I say let's just soak up the good vibes. Win 45+ games for the 2nd time in nearly 20 years with a much more likeable group.
Use this season as a feel-good campaign that gives us hope moving forward. Use the offseason to make the moves in the margins to get closer to 50 wins and a sure playoff berth.
It's a good question. A lot can change and shift in a short time period within the NBA, including injuries. I could be convinced that maximizing our success THIS season and putting together a squad that can really compete in these upcoming playoffs is worth some painful tradeoffs (whether that's giving up a future 1st, trading a fan favorite, or taking on a longer contract).
I think it all comes down to what kind of deals are out there to be had. I could be convinced to do something big if I think it could give Phoenix or Golden State a scare in these playoffs and set us up well for next season as well.
I may also be perfectly fine standing pat if the price to do something big sacrifices way too much of our future.
I guess I'm fairly open minded....it's nice not to be arguing on this board on whether we should be purposely tanking or not!
AbeVigodaLive wrote:What do we want/expect from this team?
- A play-in spot? That's pretty much a sure thing barring at least one major injury.
- A playoff berth? A 7-game series is HUGE for their development.
- Does anybody really expect them to get past round 1?
Personally, I think the Wolves are about to go on a run that puts them in the mid-40s for wins as currently constructed. While that SHOULD get them to the final 8 in the playoffs... it's no guarantee.
I keep hearing about the camaraderie of this team. Enough so that there must be some legit juice behind it. So, I say let's just soak up the good vibes. Win 45+ games for the 2nd time in nearly 20 years with a much more likeable group.
Use this season as a feel-good campaign that gives us hope moving forward. Use the offseason to make the moves in the margins to get closer to 50 wins and a sure playoff berth.
It's a good question. A lot can change and shift in a short time period within the NBA, including injuries. I could be convinced that maximizing our success THIS season and putting together a squad that can really compete in these upcoming playoffs is worth some painful tradeoffs (whether that's giving up a future 1st, trading a fan favorite, or taking on a longer contract).
I think it all comes down to what kind of deals are out there to be had. I could be convinced to do something big if I think it could give Phoenix or Golden State a scare in these playoffs and set us up well for next season as well.
I may also be perfectly fine standing pat if the price to do something big sacrifices way too much of our future.
I guess I'm fairly open minded....it's nice not to be arguing on this board on whether we should be purposely tanking or not!
Ain't that the truth!
Abe's question about what do we want is a good one. I'll take his statement that barring a serious injury the Wolves are a lock to at least make the play in a little further. I think they are a lock even if they have a serious injury, because the 5 bottom feeders in the West are either not good enough, too injured (Pels) or nor interested enough (i.e. tanking) to make the playoffs. I would almost call Portland a lock even though their cushion is much smaller than the Wolves.
I would much prefer seeing the Wolves stay out of the play-in. Right now the three other teams in that 7-10 cluster are only so down in the standings because of key injuries, and there is a chance that guys like Lillard, James, Davis, George and maybe even Leonard will be back by tournament time. A one-game playoff against any of those teams would not be very satisfying to me if they're healthy. So with a weaker schedule coming up, I have my eyes on Denver, Dallas and Utah. If some of their key players stay out and we stay reasonably healthy, we could pass one or more of them. And one thing we learned from last year's playoffs, injuries can change the landscape dramatically, so anything could happen in a 7-game season if our opponent were missing a key piece. At any rate, I would much prefer a 7-game series to a one (or two) game finish. So let's pass one of those teams!
AbeVigodaLive wrote:What do we want/expect from this team?
- A play-in spot? That's pretty much a sure thing barring at least one major injury.
- A playoff berth? A 7-game series is HUGE for their development.
- Does anybody really expect them to get past round 1?
Personally, I think the Wolves are about to go on a run that puts them in the mid-40s for wins as currently constructed. While that SHOULD get them to the final 8 in the playoffs... it's no guarantee.
I keep hearing about the camaraderie of this team. Enough so that there must be some legit juice behind it. So, I say let's just soak up the good vibes. Win 45+ games for the 2nd time in nearly 20 years with a much more likeable group.
Use this season as a feel-good campaign that gives us hope moving forward. Use the offseason to make the moves in the margins to get closer to 50 wins and a sure playoff berth.
It's a good question. A lot can change and shift in a short time period within the NBA, including injuries. I could be convinced that maximizing our success THIS season and putting together a squad that can really compete in these upcoming playoffs is worth some painful tradeoffs (whether that's giving up a future 1st, trading a fan favorite, or taking on a longer contract).
I think it all comes down to what kind of deals are out there to be had. I could be convinced to do something big if I think it could give Phoenix or Golden State a scare in these playoffs and set us up well for next season as well.
I may also be perfectly fine standing pat if the price to do something big sacrifices way too much of our future.
I guess I'm fairly open minded....it's nice not to be arguing on this board on whether we should be purposely tanking or not!
Ain't that the truth!
Abe's question about what do we want is a good one. I'll take his statement that barring a serious injury the Wolves are a lock to at least make the play in a little further. I think they are a lock even if they have a serious injury, because the 5 bottom feeders in the West are either not good enough, too injured (Pels) or nor interested enough (i.e. tanking) to make the playoffs. I would almost call Portland a lock even though their cushion is much smaller than the Wolves.
I would much prefer seeing the Wolves stay out of the play-in. Right now the three other teams in that 7-10 cluster are only so down in the standings because of key injuries, and there is a chance that guys like Lillard, James, Davis, George and maybe even Leonard will be back by tournament time. A one-game playoff against any of those teams would not be very satisfying to me if they're healthy. So with a weaker schedule coming up, I have my eyes on Denver, Dallas and Utah. If some of their key players stay out and we stay reasonably healthy, we could pass one or more of them. And one thing we learned from last year's playoffs, injuries can change the landscape dramatically, so anything could happen in a 7-game season if our opponent were missing a key piece. At any rate, I would much prefer a 7-game series to a one (or two) game finish. So let's pass one of those teams!
That's exactly my point. I mean, what if we played Phoenix and Chris Paul was out for the series? Or Golden State without Steph Curry? Of course, we could be the ones that go a key man down too!
The point being, we can't just assume that we will make the playoffs in perpetuity from here forward just because we break through this season with a young-ish core. If an opportunity presents itself to add a key piece before the trade deadline, we need to take a hard look at it.
Wow, I like that energy a lot more than the pessimistic FNG! Really good stuff. This team definitely has the talent and opportunity to get a top-six seed, though I still think a meaningful trade for a wing or additional ball-handler could give them the boost they need to get it done and perhaps make some noise in a playoff series. Anything -- good or bad -- can happen in a winner-takes-all play-in game so I'd like to avoid that at all costs, if possible.
Camden wrote:Wow, I like that energy a lot more than the pessimistic FNG! Really good stuff. This team definitely has the talent and opportunity to get a top-six seed, though I still think a meaningful trade for a wing or additional ball-handler could give them the boost they need to get it done and perhaps make some noise in a playoff series. Anything -- good or bad -- can happen in a winner-takes-all play-in game so I'd like to avoid that at all costs, if possible.
I've been consistent all year in saying I've been enjoying this team more than any other in several years. I didn't watch last night's game (and after reading the GDT, I think I made the right decision) because there wasn't much I wanted to see with Cade out, but I've missed fewer than a handful this season...and it's been fun. But with all the good fortune we've had this season (and I know you don't like that narrative), I think the season will feel a little hollow to me if we're one game (or even two games) and done in the play-in tournament. That's why I'm really hoping for a 5th or 6th seed. Even a 4-0 or a 4-1 in a real series would somehow feel better to me than a cameo in the play-in. I don't know...that's just me.
And I'm also in a different position than others here on the trade front. I still have some nagging concerns about the ceiling for this Rosas-created roster, so even despite the recent excellent play, I wouldn't be opposed to a home run play by Gupta at the deadline...especially if he thought it was a move that improved our long-term prospects. But I'm 100% opposed to any deal that involves giving up draft picks...we do that far too often, And the guys most posters here are willing to give up (Layman and Okogie) are going to be as interesting to other teams as they are to us. I want Gupta to go big (and no, I don't have a specific deal in mind) or stand pat, because anything else will just feel like rearranging the deck chairs to me.
kekgeek1 wrote:So there are Pat Bev for Marcus Smart rumors and I think that would be a terrible idea for what Pat Bev means for this team
Bev could be our version of Haslem. Obviously Bev is still playing at a pretty damn high level and we will desperately need him healthy and on the floor during the playoffs. But I could see a longer term role for him that morphs into player/Chief Culture Officer with the latter becoming the more prominent role as injuries and age eat away at his playing time.
Is he that important though? Anyone should obviously see that KAT is rubbing off on Edwards with the complaining. If Beverley cannot get through to KAT, then he is expendable. We have to capitalize on assets that are high to a contender or someone who wants a prospect ticket that allows us to round out our roster. In my opinion,, Beverley, Beasley, Reid, Nowell should all be used as trade fodder before the deadline.
Well, let's first talk about the here and now. When you talk about rounding out our roster by trading Patrick Beverley, you are basically creating one hole to fill another. I know he struggles with staying healthy, but when he plays, he is one of our top 3 or 4 players on the floor. His absence would leave a massive hole in a year that we might have the opportunity to make some noise in the playoffs.
As for the future, this team needs veteran locker room leadership. KAT isn't capable of it himself because he's too emotionally immature. Ant is still too young. And DLO is a great team mate, but he doesn't have the fire or winning pedigree to get in people's faces.
If we were 5+ games below .500 and sucking wind just trying to snag a 9th or 10th seed, I'd consider trading PBev. But I want him in the foxhole with this group.
In theory, I agree with you about Beverley. But, he is older, often injured, and expiring. This team is on an upward trend, yet nowhere near to making serious noise. Bev, Prince, Reid, Beasley, Nowell, picks, should all be on the table. The bed has been made with KAT, DLO, and Ant. If they cannot provide leadership, then we are doomed. 0We are lucky to have gotten Vando on that contract, and big Jmac is showing promise. Every other player is expendable. Get something rather than nothing.
If KAT, Ant and DLO are, in fact, our core three for the long haul, then the Wolves need quality rotation guys and veteran leadership around them.
I agree that McDaniels and Vando are keepers as young, inexpensive quality players with lots of remaining upside. They provide length and defensive, two things this team needs. But I don't think we can expect to improve the rotation guys around our core three by trading Beverley, Prince, Reid, Beasley or Nowell.
Beverley has been a high quality rotation player since day one. He's also been a leader and culture changer who has played a big role in substantially improving what was the League's 2nd worst defense in the League last season. Nowell has been a quality rotation player for at least the last couple months. He plays both sides of the ball, can play both guard positions and is also young with significant remaining upside. He's also on a very team-friendly contract. Prince has been a high-quality rotation player the past several weeks and because his recent play is consistent with his career averages it's likely that he'll remain a quality rotation player the rest of the season. He's a talented player who, remember, was the 12th pick in the 2016 draft. He's a mature professional who is well-liked and highly respected by his teammates. At age 27, he's in the heart of his prime fresh from off-season surgery that he says has him feeling better than he has in years. Beasley is a true 3-point marksman. He's been in a shooting slump most of this season. But his career numbers, especially since coming to MN before this season, tell us he's a 38-40% three-point shooter. He's also a really athletic player who rebounds his position better than most. His rebounding is particularly important for a relatively poor rebounding team like the Wolves. And at age 24, he probably has more upside. Reid is a terrific scorer with lots of remaining upside and a very team-friendly contract.
We all have the tendency to think the grass is greener on the other side. As part of that, we often fail to fully appreciate the positives we get from the players we have on our team. I guess it's at least partially true that familiarity breeds contempt. Don't get me wrong. I'd be open to trading any of the players on this team other than KAT, Ant, DLO or Vanderbilt. Yes, I'd even be willing to part with McDaniels for the right deal. But I don't think we need to trade any of them by the deadline. And I wouldn't actively shop any of them either. We're already on a positive trajectory to finish in the 5-8 range. Very few fans or pundits predicted the Wolves would do that well this season. And by all accounts, this team has tremendous chemistry. Yes, I'd like to improve the team's personnel even more. But it's a stretch to assume other teams will give us better players in exchange for the ones we have. I liked the purported Boston deal because I think Richardson would be an improvement over Beasley given Richardson's defensive competency. But Boston's executives aren't idiots and there's a reason they apparently offered that deal. Beasley's a better volume three-point shooter and also a better rebounder than Richardson. There might be things about Richardson we don't know that would give us pause if we did. He's had a hard time sticking with teams lately.
So far, I think Gupta has done well by doing nothing while letting the current roster develop and gel under Finch. The key marker of success for this young team this season will be making the playoffs. Even better if they can do that without going through the play-in tournament. I think it's clear that the current roster is good enough to meet that objective. The best move for the Wolves front office now, in my view, is to let this season play out and keep their powder dry for the offseason when they can fully assess this season and make prudent, non-rushed decisions to further improve the roster. My one exception to that approach is that I'd like to see the Wolves actively shop Layman and future 2nd-round picks for a quality big like a Robin Lopez or Alex Len or to clear cap space to sign Monroe.
So what happens without Beverley and Prince when they leave this off-season or next because we cannot afford them?
I watched this game this afternoon and I didn't know the outcome. Wasn't a pretty game but good gravy Frank Jackson was going bonkers out there. Detroit should get some credit for making this game close. There was a stretch where the Wolves took like 9 of 10 Poseidon's were terrible shots expect one time where Towns got Edwards for a drive. Then it was back to throwing up contested 3's or some crap.
Prince is still on fire and quite frankly we needed it. Beasley was hitting shots in this one too.
Grant made me like almost want to give up a lot to get him in this game he was very good.
Ultimately the Wolves were the better team and won but they could have made it more convincing.
TheFuture wrote:So what happens without Beverley and Prince when they leave this off-season or next because we cannot afford them?
They're both free agents this off-season. It's already been reported that Patrick Beverley (and his agent) and Minnesota have had discussions concerning an extension. I'd imagine that Taurean Prince would be interested in re-signing as well, assuming his role and production remain positive. Neither of those guys will cost more than the mid-level exception moving forward, which is considerably less than what they're making this year.
With Anthony Edwards on a rookie scale contract, I'm wondering why you think Minnesota wouldn't be able to afford them if they wanted to keep them?
TheFuture wrote:So what happens without Beverley and Prince when they leave this off-season or next because we cannot afford them?
They're both free agents this off-season. It's already been reported that Patrick Beverley (and his agent) and Minnesota have had discussions concerning an extension. I'd imagine that Taurean Prince would be interested in re-signing as well, assuming his role and production remain positive. Neither of those guys will cost more than the mid-level exception moving forward, which is considerably less than what they're making this year.
With Anthony Edwards on a rookie scale contract, I'm wondering why you think Minnesota wouldn't be able to afford them if they wanted to keep them?
Let's say those guys walk and don't resign. The Wolves will have the full mid-level and the BAE to add some FAs plus they won't be constrained in whether they add vet min players because they will have plenty of space under the luxury tax. The Wolves have over 30 million in expiring salaries going into this offseason. That means they are going to have ways to add to the roster and they might be able to add the right players instead of having a guy like Layman who is not really needed.
I think the Wolves will be somewhat aggressive in keeping their FAs (assuming there are no significant moves made) because for example they could sign both Beverly and Prince to mid-level type deals and still maybe have enough room to use all or a meaningful chunk of the mid-level as well. It will be interesting to see if they decide to keep Okogie and what Josh will be willing to accept in terms of salary.
