Minnesota Sports Forum

Camden0916 wrote:For those championing for Clark, what are you drafting him for? Is it for his defensive potential -- where he does not project to be a game-changer other than the occasional highlight block? Or is it for his offensive game -- where he's underdeveloped for a 22-year old who lacks a perimeter shot and a basic back to the basket post game?

His best selling point is his athleticism, but again, I'd caution against drafting guys that rely on their athleticism so heavily.

I mean if you are talking about needing to hit big on a pick, going with good athletes in weak drafts is usually the way to go. You can teach a lot of basketball skills. You can't teach measurables and athleticism. I'm not even arguing for us to take Clark either. Just arguing that a lot of the guys bringing basketball skills to the table this year don't have the athleticism to be an all-star at the next level so if you need to find a diamond in the rough you have to pick someone that you can cut into that diamond.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:So many wild takes come out around this time [draft season] every year. And of course, they usually come from those that haven't really done their homework -- especially if their day-to-day lifestyle doesn't allow them the time to properly scout/evaluate these guys.

Yes I apologize for myself and others 'wild takes'. If only we had your amazing talent evaluation skills.

That post was aimed at the "Jon K likes Coby White at No. 4" comment, but you can get emotional if you'd like.

Oh yeah Cam I did think that Jon K's comment was a bit wild which was a bit surprising for him. I think the people that like White see him as sort of a De'Aaron Fox but it probably more like Zach Lavine in terms of his basketball IQ and isn't the athlete that either of those guys are. I'm not sure what kind of shooter he really is either.

Ultimately I'm mostly waiting now to see how various guys measure out. That's not the end all be all for me but I'd say Clark measures out with somewhat less than impressive length (supposed to be like 6'8") that's gonna be a legit hit to his stock with me. How big/long are some of these perimeter players? It's still early in my process of evaluating guys.

Monster - I agree with your take on Coby White. He strikes me as a guy who won't translate well beyond college. I also agree that pre-draft measurements will be particularly important for some prospects like Clark to see if their areas of strength can translate to the NBA. So far Clark's strength in college has been rim protection. He's clearly a terrific athlete with great hops. His length will tell us whether he can be a shot-blocker and rebounder in the NBA. I suspect he has long arms, so I think he'll come in with an overhead reach of around 8'11. That's plenty long for an athletic player who's quick off his feet to be a very good PF and block shots in the NBA. I'm not too concerned about his age as I think he's a late bloomer. If he measures as long as I suspect he will, then his shot will be another key factor. He apparently completely revamped his shooting mechanics when he transferred and it appears to be paying off so far. He intrigues me, but there's a lot more to know about him before I'd pull the trigger drafting him.

I want to go back to White again. I watched some more highlights on him and I'm less worried about him being a worthwhile offensive player. The bottom line is some guys are fast with the ball in their hands and White has that in his favor. Maybe he won't always be able to blow past guys in the half court on his own but he is skilled and can you imagine him in a 2 man game with Towns? We have seen a glimpse of that with Rose when healthy. White is likely a better shooter but give him a bit of a start and he goes downhill fast. It's obviously asking a lot to assume he can be a healthy 2018-2019 Rose but it's something to think about.

Meanwhile supposedly while 6'4" or 6'5" he only has a 6'4" wingspan? That's not good. Let's see how he measures out. I think he is a willing defender but I also thought there were some times in games so watched he still got used despite him trying.

On the other hand loom at the numbers he put up on less than 29mpg. Per 36 you have what like 20/4/5 and yes lots of turnovers. Worried about that 42% shooting? He took over half of his shots as 3's so he shot over 50% from 2.

Again I'm not sold on him but the guy is skilled is a ball handler and shooter than likely can create and that is what this team needs along with someone that can play D. I see a lot of flawed prospects at this point. There are aspect of White's game that are well ahead of where Zach Lavine was...it comes down to whether or not you think various guys will improve at the next level. To some extent there is a crapshoot aspect of it all. I haven't decided if so believe in White or not. I do think there is something there worth considering. I'm looking forward to digging in and watching some more of these prospects the next few weeks.

The ringers new draft board. Worth a read.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/?_ga=2.180647463.1832521605.1555516476-526244341.1555516476

kekgeek1 wrote:The ringers new draft board. Worth a read.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/?_ga=2.180647463.1832521605.1555516476-526244341.1555516476

I was just thinking today that there are much fewer NBA draft resources online. ESPN bought most of them and put them behind a paywall. This was a welcome resource but they should do more in-depth player pages or links to video. I'm not as high on Culver at 4. This draft really does seem to become a crapshoot pretty early it seems.

thedoper wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:The ringers new draft board. Worth a read.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/?_ga=2.180647463.1832521605.1555516476-526244341.1555516476

I was just thinking today that there are much fewer NBA draft resources online. ESPN bought most of them and put them behind a paywall. This was a welcome resource but they should do more in-depth player pages or links to video. I'm not as high on Culver at 4. This draft really does seem to become a crapshoot pretty early it seems.

They go a little more in-depth at the bottom right of its player box, hitting the down arrow. (Can be hard to find) But you are right wish they had video.

I was going to ask Lip this also but would you consider trading the pick to get off gorgui contact if the wolves don't move up.

I've been against that for awhile but no prospect around 10 really excites me and I'm wondering is the 16 million in cap going into next offseason worth more than the pick. I still don't know if I would do it but I'm considering it a little bit more now

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:The ringers new draft board. Worth a read.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/?_ga=2.180647463.1832521605.1555516476-526244341.1555516476

I was just thinking today that there are much fewer NBA draft resources online. ESPN bought most of them and put them behind a paywall. This was a welcome resource but they should do more in-depth player pages or links to video. I'm not as high on Culver at 4. This draft really does seem to become a crapshoot pretty early it seems.

They go a little more in-depth at the bottom right of its player box, hitting the down arrow. (Can be hard to find) But you are right wish they had video.

I was going to ask Lip this also but would you consider trading the pick to get off gorgui contact if the wolves don't move up.

I've been against that for awhile but no prospect around 10 really excites me and I'm wondering is the 16 million in cap going into next offseason worth more than the pick. I still don't know if I would do it but I'm considering it a little bit more now

Absolutely not. Taking a stab at a worthwhile player on a rookie deal is light years more valuable than the 0 cap space trading away G would generate. With Teague opting in we have no way to generate meaningful cap space.

khans2k5 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:The ringers new draft board. Worth a read.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/?_ga=2.180647463.1832521605.1555516476-526244341.1555516476

I was just thinking today that there are much fewer NBA draft resources online. ESPN bought most of them and put them behind a paywall. This was a welcome resource but they should do more in-depth player pages or links to video. I'm not as high on Culver at 4. This draft really does seem to become a crapshoot pretty early it seems.

They go a little more in-depth at the bottom right of its player box, hitting the down arrow. (Can be hard to find) But you are right wish they had video.

I was going to ask Lip this also but would you consider trading the pick to get off gorgui contact if the wolves don't move up.

I've been against that for awhile but no prospect around 10 really excites me and I'm wondering is the 16 million in cap going into next offseason worth more than the pick. I still don't know if I would do it but I'm considering it a little bit more now

Absolutely not. Taking a stab at a worthwhile player on a rookie deal is light years more valuable than the 0 cap space trading away G would generate. With Teague opting in we have no way to generate meaningful cap space.

Correct no meaningful cap space would be created this year but Dieng off the books. Teague and Saric both off the books (saric would be RFA) and not having to pay the #10 pick would create close to 45 million off the books for 2020 offseason compared to 25 million off the books if we didn't trade it.

Once again don't know if I would do it but it has to be considered

kekgeek1 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:The ringers new draft board. Worth a read.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/?_ga=2.180647463.1832521605.1555516476-526244341.1555516476

I was just thinking today that there are much fewer NBA draft resources online. ESPN bought most of them and put them behind a paywall. This was a welcome resource but they should do more in-depth player pages or links to video. I'm not as high on Culver at 4. This draft really does seem to become a crapshoot pretty early it seems.

They go a little more in-depth at the bottom right of its player box, hitting the down arrow. (Can be hard to find) But you are right wish they had video.

I was going to ask Lip this also but would you consider trading the pick to get off gorgui contact if the wolves don't move up.

I've been against that for awhile but no prospect around 10 really excites me and I'm wondering is the 16 million in cap going into next offseason worth more than the pick. I still don't know if I would do it but I'm considering it a little bit more now

Absolutely not. Taking a stab at a worthwhile player on a rookie deal is light years more valuable than the 0 cap space trading away G would generate. With Teague opting in we have no way to generate meaningful cap space.

Correct no meaningful cap space would be created this year but Dieng off the books. Teague and Saric both off the books (saric would be RFA) and not having to pay the #10 pick would create close to 45 million off the books for 2020 offseason compared to 25 million off the books if we didn't trade it.

Once again don't know if I would do it but it has to be considered

I am in the camp of absolutely not trading a draft pick to get rid of Dieng. Draft picks even in a meh draft have value. 2013 was considered a meh draft and you have that GF guy at 15 and Gobert outside of the lottery. We sold a pick that became Robertson. Name these teams that really got better by paying a draft pick to get space? Lots of teams end up regretting giving up young players/draft picks to do that the Lakers are one of them and they got Lebron.

Meanwhile Dieng played well this year. He can actually be useful a smaller bench role. A year from now he will be an expiring and could be a contract that helps get you a player while sending back assets. We need to use the draft pick as an asset to add talent to this team not shooting ourselves in the foot again watching some other team pick a useful player we could have had.

Really if you really want to dump salary by attaching a pick why not go all the way and use it to dump Wiggins? I'm not advocating doing that but of its salary flexibility you want...

kekgeek1 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:The ringers new draft board. Worth a read.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/?_ga=2.180647463.1832521605.1555516476-526244341.1555516476

I was just thinking today that there are much fewer NBA draft resources online. ESPN bought most of them and put them behind a paywall. This was a welcome resource but they should do more in-depth player pages or links to video. I'm not as high on Culver at 4. This draft really does seem to become a crapshoot pretty early it seems.

They go a little more in-depth at the bottom right of its player box, hitting the down arrow. (Can be hard to find) But you are right wish they had video.

I was going to ask Lip this also but would you consider trading the pick to get off gorgui contact if the wolves don't move up.

I've been against that for awhile but no prospect around 10 really excites me and I'm wondering is the 16 million in cap going into next offseason worth more than the pick. I still don't know if I would do it but I'm considering it a little bit more now

Absolutely not. Taking a stab at a worthwhile player on a rookie deal is light years more valuable than the 0 cap space trading away G would generate. With Teague opting in we have no way to generate meaningful cap space.

Correct no meaningful cap space would be created this year but Dieng off the books. Teague and Saric both off the books (saric would be RFA) and not having to pay the #10 pick would create close to 45 million off the books for 2020 offseason compared to 25 million off the books if we didn't trade it.

Once again don't know if I would do it but it has to be considered

The number 10 pick costs scraps. Good rookie deals are the #1 bargain in all of sports. Throwing that away to save money is always a bad move. Can you name any moves where a pick was moved with a player to open up cap space where it was a good move for the team who lost the pick? All we see left and right is bad pick conveyances every year and teams tanking or hoping to get 8 seeds to not have to lose good picks. Now add to that you are opening up the cap space to convince a player to come to the Wolves and it makes even less sense.

khans2k5 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:The ringers new draft board. Worth a read.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/?_ga=2.180647463.1832521605.1555516476-526244341.1555516476

I was just thinking today that there are much fewer NBA draft resources online. ESPN bought most of them and put them behind a paywall. This was a welcome resource but they should do more in-depth player pages or links to video. I'm not as high on Culver at 4. This draft really does seem to become a crapshoot pretty early it seems.

They go a little more in-depth at the bottom right of its player box, hitting the down arrow. (Can be hard to find) But you are right wish they had video.

I was going to ask Lip this also but would you consider trading the pick to get off gorgui contact if the wolves don't move up.

I've been against that for awhile but no prospect around 10 really excites me and I'm wondering is the 16 million in cap going into next offseason worth more than the pick. I still don't know if I would do it but I'm considering it a little bit more now

Absolutely not. Taking a stab at a worthwhile player on a rookie deal is light years more valuable than the 0 cap space trading away G would generate. With Teague opting in we have no way to generate meaningful cap space.

Correct no meaningful cap space would be created this year but Dieng off the books. Teague and Saric both off the books (saric would be RFA) and not having to pay the #10 pick would create close to 45 million off the books for 2020 offseason compared to 25 million off the books if we didn't trade it.

Once again don't know if I would do it but it has to be considered

The number 10 pick costs scraps. Good rookie deals are the #1 bargain in all of sports. Throwing that away to save money is always a bad move. Can you name any moves where a pick was moved with a player to open up cap space where it was a good move for the team who lost the pick? All we see left and right is bad pick conveyances every year and teams tanking or hoping to get 8 seeds to not have to lose good picks. Now add to that you are opening up the cap space to convince a player to come to the Wolves and it makes even less sense.

The Warriors spent two unprotected first-round picks to salary dump Andris Biedrins, Richard Jefferson, and Brandon Rush to the Jazz so they could acquire Andre Iguodala in a sign-and trade deal. That move being successful is the outlier here, but sometimes it does work out.