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Re: Wolves offseason thread
Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 9:53 am
by bleedspeed
Cam - Great write-up. I think we start over. We are basically going to end up like the Bulls.
Re: Wolves offseason thread
Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 3:47 pm
by Wolvesfan21
If I am Glen Taylor I fire Thibs but only after talking to KAT and Butler (who I assume would be on board). Unless you can convince me that a team with two All Stars should have been as bad as they were in defense and an 8th seed. What team with 2 All Stars finished worse then the Wolves?
My feeling is that they underachieved. So, either me and a ton other people are overrating the talent or maybe the other side is right. Thibs is great and the players are just mediocre.
Re: Wolves offseason thread
Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 7:47 pm
by Monster
WolvesFan21 wrote:If I am Glen Taylor I fire Thibs but only after talking to KAT and Butler (who I assume would be on board). Unless you can convince me that a team with two All Stars should have been as bad as they were in defense and an 8th seed. What team with 2 All Stars finished worse then the Wolves?
My feeling is that they underachieved. So, either me and a ton other people are overrating the talent or maybe the other side is right. Thibs is great and the players are just mediocre.
What makes you think Butler would want Thibs fired?
Re: Wolves offseason thread
Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:05 pm
by Lipoli390
WolvesFan21 wrote:If I am Glen Taylor I fire Thibs but only after talking to KAT and Butler (who I assume would be on board). Unless you can convince me that a team with two All Stars should have been as bad as they were in defense and an 8th seed. What team with 2 All Stars finished worse then the Wolves?
My feeling is that they underachieved. So, either me and a ton other people are overrating the talent or maybe the other side is right. Thibs is great and the players are just mediocre.
As everyone on this Board knows, I wouldn't have hired Thibodeau in the first place. I also agree that the team has underachieved under him. Would I fire him? Probably. But I'm pretty sure that Butler would tell me not to fire him. I'm not sure what KAT and others players would say.
Re: Wolves offseason thread
Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:13 pm
by Monster
Camden0916 wrote:I see two options. Continue the "all-in" approach that has already been started by hiring Tom Thibodeau, trading young players and assets for Jimmy Butler, signing Jeff Teague and Taj Gibson, OR go half rebuild by firing Thibs, hiring someone more devoted to player development and incremental success (Tony Bennett, Brent Barry, Jay Wright, and Ryan Saunders would be my candidates), dealing veterans Taj Gibson and Jeff Teague to playoff contending teams in need of a starting caliber plugin in hopes of getting back expirings and a first-round pick or two, and trading Jimmy Butler for a top-eight pick in this year's draft, a future pick, and a useful role player or two -- Cleveland would potentially be the perfect trade partner for this as they showed real interest in Butler last summer and could offer Brooklyn's first-round pick in 2018, Cleveland's first-round pick in 2020, Larry Nance Jr., and Jordan Clarkson.
If you choose the former, as I'm sure most Wolves fans would, then you can't be afraid to spend money this off-season or be afraid to trade Andrew Wiggins. We must get better in a plethora of areas.
If you choose the latter, you're potentially a lottery team once again or fighting for the eighth-seed at very best for the next couple of seasons, but you might have salvaged your long-term window. You also probably lose a significant portion of credibility around the league as well as within your own fan base.
You laid out lots of good stuff here Cam. Worthwhile question IMO...does one of those top college coaches make a jump to the NBA if the franchise that's hiring them is going to sell off the vet players?
Re: Wolves offseason thread
Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:17 pm
by kekgeek
monsterpile wrote:Camden0916 wrote:I see two options. Continue the "all-in" approach that has already been started by hiring Tom Thibodeau, trading young players and assets for Jimmy Butler, signing Jeff Teague and Taj Gibson, OR go half rebuild by firing Thibs, hiring someone more devoted to player development and incremental success (Tony Bennett, Brent Barry, Jay Wright, and Ryan Saunders would be my candidates), dealing veterans Taj Gibson and Jeff Teague to playoff contending teams in need of a starting caliber plugin in hopes of getting back expirings and a first-round pick or two, and trading Jimmy Butler for a top-eight pick in this year's draft, a future pick, and a useful role player or two -- Cleveland would potentially be the perfect trade partner for this as they showed real interest in Butler last summer and could offer Brooklyn's first-round pick in 2018, Cleveland's first-round pick in 2020, Larry Nance Jr., and Jordan Clarkson.
If you choose the former, as I'm sure most Wolves fans would, then you can't be afraid to spend money this off-season or be afraid to trade Andrew Wiggins. We must get better in a plethora of areas.
If you choose the latter, you're potentially a lottery team once again or fighting for the eighth-seed at very best for the next couple of seasons, but you might have salvaged your long-term window. You also probably lose a significant portion of credibility around the league as well as within your own fan base.
You laid out lots of good stuff here Cam. Worthwhile question IMO...does one of those top college coaches make a jump to the NBA if the franchise that's hiring them is going to sell off the vet players?
Also does any up and coming coach want to come here and when we fire thibs after our best season in 14 years
Re: Wolves offseason thread
Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:20 pm
by thedoper
I'd hate to work for some of you guys. I'd be getting fired after meeting and exceeding the targets we set for wins.
Re: Wolves offseason thread
Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:25 pm
by Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
khans2k5 wrote:Don't underestimate continuity in professional sports. We made major changes last year. If we keep making major changes every summer we'll never have the continuity that breeds consistency. A major reason we stayed in the dumps for 14 years were the wholesale changes that kept happening from the GM to the coach to the players. We should look to add to what we did last year and not try to move the furniture or subtract because keeping the coach and the roster largely in place is gonna be more beneficial than selling role players at their peak for other role players. Unless you can add a legitimate all-star to make this team better then stay the course and there will be natural improvement from just playing together more.
I guess it depends on how you define major changes. Boston, Utah, and Philly all have at least 4 or 5 new guys in their playoff rotation versus last season. I consider that pretty major.
Thibs the POBO needs to make some changes. This team doesn't quite fit together the way it's currently constructed. I could easily see a scenario where up to three or four of our regular rotation guys get swapped out.
Re: Wolves offseason thread
Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:29 pm
by Wolvesfan21
monsterpile wrote:WolvesFan21 wrote:If I am Glen Taylor I fire Thibs but only after talking to KAT and Butler (who I assume would be on board). Unless you can convince me that a team with two All Stars should have been as bad as they were in defense and an 8th seed. What team with 2 All Stars finished worse then the Wolves?
My feeling is that they underachieved. So, either me and a ton other people are overrating the talent or maybe the other side is right. Thibs is great and the players are just mediocre.
What makes you think Butler would want Thibs fired?
What was the defense rated? With the additions of Taj and Butler they didn't get better really, the same constant is Thibs KAT and Wiggins. I don't blame everything on KAT and Wiggins. Wiggins is an avg defender I think, while KAt below avg.
I don't see the Wolves on a path right now to winning a championship, thus I would fire Thibs and I think Butler would agree. The reason to ask the players is obvious, you need them to sign extensions, so they should be involved in that decision.
If Butler or KAT wanted t keep Thibs and think they will win it all with him, then I stay the course.
Re: Wolves offseason thread
Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:30 pm
by Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
kekgeek1 wrote:monsterpile wrote:Camden0916 wrote:I see two options. Continue the "all-in" approach that has already been started by hiring Tom Thibodeau, trading young players and assets for Jimmy Butler, signing Jeff Teague and Taj Gibson, OR go half rebuild by firing Thibs, hiring someone more devoted to player development and incremental success (Tony Bennett, Brent Barry, Jay Wright, and Ryan Saunders would be my candidates), dealing veterans Taj Gibson and Jeff Teague to playoff contending teams in need of a starting caliber plugin in hopes of getting back expirings and a first-round pick or two, and trading Jimmy Butler for a top-eight pick in this year's draft, a future pick, and a useful role player or two -- Cleveland would potentially be the perfect trade partner for this as they showed real interest in Butler last summer and could offer Brooklyn's first-round pick in 2018, Cleveland's first-round pick in 2020, Larry Nance Jr., and Jordan Clarkson.
If you choose the former, as I'm sure most Wolves fans would, then you can't be afraid to spend money this off-season or be afraid to trade Andrew Wiggins. We must get better in a plethora of areas.
If you choose the latter, you're potentially a lottery team once again or fighting for the eighth-seed at very best for the next couple of seasons, but you might have salvaged your long-term window. You also probably lose a significant portion of credibility around the league as well as within your own fan base.
You laid out lots of good stuff here Cam. Worthwhile question IMO...does one of those top college coaches make a jump to the NBA if the franchise that's hiring them is going to sell off the vet players?
Also does any up and coming coach want to come here and when we fire thibs after our best season in 14 years
They might if it means the expectations are re-set and the starting point is KAT, with a bundle of picks, expiring contracts, etc. They'd have a couple years before winning would be expected.
That being said, I'm not for Cam's "Choice B". I prefer we keep our current core together, but I define that as KAT, Butler, and Gibson. That doesn't mean everyone else gets traded, but I really think some combination of Teague/Wiggins/Dieng needs to go if we can get the right value back and it means a more complimentary player on our roster.