Minnesota Sports Forum

TheFuture wrote:

thedoper wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Wiggins has plenty of length to be a top defender. Recall that he was reported to have grown an inch after his first year here. His athleticism and length are more than enough to make him a top defender. It's all about getting physically stronger AND his motor. I have no doubt he'll get a lot stronger and bulkier given his young age. It's the motor I worry about. But I'm not convinced yet that the motor isn't there.

Leonard has 40 lbs on Wiggins and an 8 cm wingspan. I just don't want him putting on that kind of weight personally, and his arms aren't going to grow 4cm a piece. He's not going to ever be able to body up guys the way Leonard does, regardless of his motor. His defensive abilities will always be built aroubd speed and positioning and not power.

We aren't seriously at the point on this board that we are contemplating 4 cm. An inch and a half isn't that defining.

I'm not getting hung up on inches, only making the point that Wiggins and Leonard will be totally different defenders stylistically because of their physical attributes. I think Leonard gets so much credit because he physically dominates. Moreover I think that type of defender will get noticed because it is jarringly obvious. Wiggins defensive improvements will continue to center around speed, positioning and continuing to have active hands. It will never be as flashy and therefore I am skeptical most people will notice improvements.

lipoli390 wrote:It's hindsight, but I sure wish Thibs had signed Joe Johnson last summer. Very reasonable contract -- only a 2-year deal at $11 million this season and $10.5 million next season. Also wish we had signed DeWayne Dedmon. That would have been a low-risk/high-reward FA signing. I'm not saying I thought of these things last summer. But the Wolves have a big highly paid staff of professionals, starting with Thibs and Layden and including many others. It's about time they made a savvy move or two instead of just the simple rote decisions that message board rubes like us come up with in our spare time. Seriously!

I found myself praising Thibs as PBO in another thread recently based on the fact that he and Layden didn't do anything stupid this past year. Think about that. As Wolves fans we've been conditioned over the years to expect mediocrity at best and live in fear of idiocy from our team's front offices. We'll see what we get from Thibs and Layden this summer. But Layden's only experience as head of basketball operations with the Knicks was a unmitigated disaster. And Thibs has never even served in an NBA front office much less as head of basketball operations. So we'll see. I'll hope for the best, but just to protect myself from disappointment I should probably expect the worst.

I told everybody that the Joe Johnson signing was a steal. Let's remember though that the Jazz when they signed Joe Johnson were making a legit run at being contenders or at least top 4 in the WC. They had talent throughout their roster and added George Hill. They were at least a year ahead of the Wolves in that regard it's not quite fair to say we were in the same situation that Utah was.

I honestly thought the Dedmon signing was a good one too but I didn't see it going this well. It was such a Spurs move. The let Boban go for a sweet contract 3 year 21 million to Detroit and the Spurs sign Dedmon for less than 3 million. He has a player option for this year btw so we could have a chance to be the next team to sign a guy for a healthy chunk of money and the Spurs will sign some dude from somewhere and they will be plenty solid. Lol The rest of the league seemed to miss on Dedmon (they were to busy paying guys boatloads of money ) while we signed Aldrich for more money but we also have him locked in for 3 year if we want to keep him but the 3rd year inst guaranteed which has plenty of value in its own way.

Lip your skeptism is well founded ai just don't know if we have seen enough to make a real decision as of yet. Honestly the worst looking personnel decision so far looks like drafting Dunn but man so many people were high on him even as a guy that wasn't enamored with him can't rip them for that too much. It's sorta like you can't really rip Kahn for taking Derrick Williams (and ai wanted to take a different player) it wasn't dumpnto take him it just just didn't work out. The good franchises either pick the right guy or overcome making a bad pick but getting a good player another way. Look at what Memphis got out of the Thabeet Gay and Mayo picks. Mayo and Gay helped them become relavent but they have nothing on their roster currently because of those picks. Pretty impressive honestly.

So did the Wolves get any awesome steals this year for their roster? It doesn't look that way so far although Payne in a few games looked like an NBA player so...considering how bad he looked in the past that's kinda something sorta. HOWEVER they only signed one guy that cost money next season Aldrich who I still think can be a solid player going forward and now they have players in place understand much better what they have and their system and can make some more educated decisions and additions. They have money and some roster spots to work with. Remeber last offseason they had 2 guys they basically figured weren't playing in KG and Pek and one of them they basically had to keep the roster spot for a few months to get cap relief. That 15th spot could have gone to a guy that surprised or developed but instead it was just dead weight. In general they didn't have a lot of open roster spots to begin with. Depending on who leaves and who they bring back (Bazz Payne Rush Hill and Casspi plus Pek's spot) they could have more spots to fill than last year. It will be interesting to see what they do they have to get more than they did last offseason that's obvious and it sounded like Thibs felt that way at his end of the year PC.

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:Utah showed why you sign vets. Take note Thibs. It's a man's game.

I told people Joe Johnson signing was a bargain. It sounds like he earned a bunch of his money tonight.

Edit: And the Jazz are one of the teams below the salary floor.

Him, Hill and Diaw were all very solid. Hayward tried to screw them out of a win but the vets wouldn't have it. It made me think a lot about our team.

They have a big free agency though, Hayward, hill and I believe ingles all free agents. Hood due for an extention and favors has 1 year left after this year

Yes they do. I was curious what they got for Kanter and seeing what they have for draft picks makes me see now giving up the draft pick last year to get Hill makes more sense. They have GS pick this year and have OKC's lottery protected pick next year and are owed some 2nd rounders the next few years too. I would have liked to pick up Diaw last summer. There will always be some deals like that I think the Wolves should jump on them if they basically just have to absorb salary or even get paid to take the player on.

Monster -- I think you zeroed in on the only viable strategy for the Wolves this summer. As I continue looking at the 2017 FA list I have a hard time coming up with a realistic acquisition that would make a significant positive difference for us without busting the budget. So I think the only viable option for the Wolves this summer is to find a trading partner who wants our draft pick and is also looking to dump salary. It would probably be a team that feels it has hit the wall and needs to retrench and rebuild. Or it might be a bottom dweller that has a really good highly-paid player they'd be happy to unload in exchange for a high draft pick to aid their ongoing rebuilding process.

The most likely candidates for teams ready to reverse course and start a rebuilding process, in my view, would be the Pacers, Bulls and Clippers. I can't think of any bottoms dwellers who'd want our pick and who also have a player we'd want. The Pacers, Bulls, and Clippers each have a player I'd like and who I think would be major needle movers for us, provided we don't have to give up more than our pick and someone other than KAT, Wiggins, LaVine, Gorgui, Ricky or Dunn. The Pacers have Paul George. The Bulls have Jimmy Butler. The Clippers have D'Andre Jordan. I could see the Pacers giving us Paul George in exchange for our pick + Adrian Payne. I could see the Bulls dealing Jimmy Butler to us for our pick and Belly but only if our pick is a top 3. I can see the same possibility with the Clippers for Jordan, but again it would have to be a top 3.

I was also thinking about Dwight Howard. I'm wondering what Atlanta would expect in return for him. Would the 6th pick and Belly be enough? Would that be a good deal for us?

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:Utah showed why you sign vets. Take note Thibs. It's a man's game.

I told people Joe Johnson signing was a bargain. It sounds like he earned a bunch of his money tonight.

Edit: And the Jazz are one of the teams below the salary floor.

Him, Hill and Diaw were all very solid. Hayward tried to screw them out of a win but the vets wouldn't have it. It made me think a lot about our team.

They have a big free agency though, Hayward, hill and I believe ingles all free agents. Hood due for an extention and favors has 1 year left after this year

Yes they do. I was curious what they got for Kanter and seeing what they have for draft picks makes me see now giving up the draft pick last year to get Hill makes more sense. They have GS pick this year and have OKC's lottery protected pick next year and are owed some 2nd rounders the next few years too. I would have liked to pick up Diaw last summer. There will always be some deals like that I think the Wolves should jump on them if they basically just have to absorb salary or even get paid to take the player on.

Monster -- I think you zeroed in on the only viable strategy for the Wolves this summer. As I continue looking at the 2017 FA list I have a hard time coming up with a realistic acquisition that would make a significant positive difference for us without busting the budget. So I think the only viable option for the Wolves this summer is to find a trading partner who wants our draft pick and is also looking to dump salary. It would probably be a team that feels it has hit the wall and needs to retrench and rebuild. Or it might be a bottom dweller that has a really good highly-paid player they'd be happy to unload in exchange for a high draft pick to aid their ongoing rebuilding process.

The most likely candidates for teams ready to reverse course and start a rebuilding process, in my view, would be the Pacers, Bulls and Clippers. I can't think of any bottoms dwellers who'd want our pick and who also have a player we'd want. The Pacers, Bulls, and Clippers each have a player I'd like and who I think would be major needle movers for us, provided we don't have to give up more than our pick and someone other than KAT, Wiggins, LaVine, Gorgui, Ricky or Dunn. The Pacers have Paul George. The Bulls have Jimmy Butler. The Clippers have D'Andre Jordan. I could see the Pacers giving us Paul George in exchange for our pick + Adrian Payne. I could see the Bulls dealing Jimmy Butler to us for our pick and Belly but only if our pick is a top 3. I can see the same possibility with the Clippers for Jordan, but again it would have to be a top 3.

I was also thinking about Dwight Howard. I'm wondering what Atlanta would expect in return for him. Would the 6th pick and Belly be enough? Would that be a good deal for us?

To answer your last paragraph, I don't want George because he is dying to get to LA so even if we were a "fake contender" like the jazz are this year I don't think George resigns, with butler I think lavine would have to be added possibly wiggins just because of the bad relationship between thibs and the Bulls (I would not do that trade of wiggins is involved). I think jordan makes a lot of sense and the only team higher in the standings for lotto balls that I think would trade for jordan should be Boston.

Dwight is an interesting one. I think he is underrated now but still is on the decline with a big contact if we did do something I would do something like #6, Belly, tyus for Howard, their pick, our pick back from the payne trade and a guy like scott

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:Utah showed why you sign vets. Take note Thibs. It's a man's game.

I told people Joe Johnson signing was a bargain. It sounds like he earned a bunch of his money tonight.

Edit: And the Jazz are one of the teams below the salary floor.

Him, Hill and Diaw were all very solid. Hayward tried to screw them out of a win but the vets wouldn't have it. It made me think a lot about our team.

They have a big free agency though, Hayward, hill and I believe ingles all free agents. Hood due for an extention and favors has 1 year left after this year

Yes they do. I was curious what they got for Kanter and seeing what they have for draft picks makes me see now giving up the draft pick last year to get Hill makes more sense. They have GS pick this year and have OKC's lottery protected pick next year and are owed some 2nd rounders the next few years too. I would have liked to pick up Diaw last summer. There will always be some deals like that I think the Wolves should jump on them if they basically just have to absorb salary or even get paid to take the player on.

Monster -- I think you zeroed in on the only viable strategy for the Wolves this summer. As I continue looking at the 2017 FA list I have a hard time coming up with a realistic acquisition that would make a significant positive difference for us without busting the budget. So I think the only viable option for the Wolves this summer is to find a trading partner who wants our draft pick and is also looking to dump salary. It would probably be a team that feels it has hit the wall and needs to retrench and rebuild. Or it might be a bottom dweller that has a really good highly-paid player they'd be happy to unload in exchange for a high draft pick to aid their ongoing rebuilding process.

The most likely candidates for teams ready to reverse course and start a rebuilding process, in my view, would be the Pacers, Bulls and Clippers. I can't think of any bottoms dwellers who'd want our pick and who also have a player we'd want. The Pacers, Bulls, and Clippers each have a player I'd like and who I think would be major needle movers for us, provided we don't have to give up more than our pick and someone other than KAT, Wiggins, LaVine, Gorgui, Ricky or Dunn. The Pacers have Paul George. The Bulls have Jimmy Butler. The Clippers have D'Andre Jordan. I could see the Pacers giving us Paul George in exchange for our pick + Adrian Payne. I could see the Bulls dealing Jimmy Butler to us for our pick and Belly but only if our pick is a top 3. I can see the same possibility with the Clippers for Jordan, but again it would have to be a top 3.

I was also thinking about Dwight Howard. I'm wondering what Atlanta would expect in return for him. Would the 6th pick and Belly be enough? Would that be a good deal for us?

Lip I just don't see any team giving up a good enough player to pass up taking another cheap contract player with nice upside. It was the same thing last draft also. Whoever you get back has to be at least a high level starter. If these teams are willing to trade one of those guys there will be teams lining up to get them and there are teams with assets like the Lakers and Boston.

If teams are willing to dump a solid rotation player and are wanting to make a trade depending on the situation ai don't even care if they pay us in terms of a draft pick. It's pretty likely that any player you get in a trade is under an older contract and therefore not super expensive. I don't know what players will be out there but some of that will be dictated buy who is available in FA and what teams go all in on what guys. Diaw was available because the Spurs went all in on Aldridge. Some of these drafts even happen before the draft or FA. I mentioned it in another post Jordon Hill's non guanteed deal could help facilitate a team wanting to shed salarybtoake a run at a guy let's say Gordon Hayward.

To me with FA the Wolves probably are going to have to suck it up and pay a guy like Patrick Patterson crazy money maybe even $18-$20 million per for 2 years with a team option 3rd year or something like that to get them here. I hate that but I do think they have to get a legit vet rotation guy that you pretty much know what you are going to get with this team being so young. A deal like that won't hurt their cap situation to keep their young guys and could look good to Patterson because even if it's only a 2 year deal he would hit FA in 2 years at the age of 30 with the cap having gone up again for 2 years and the mid level then will be nearly 10 million if I remember right. Here is the catch. If they end up keeping Bazz they may not have that kind of money to offer and have anything left over for any other moderately significant signings. Ita going to be an interesting summer. There might be opportunities to be optimistic like the Blazers did a couple years ago picking up guys other teams didn't want anymore and it worked out well for them.

Edit: Posted in the wrong thread

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:Utah showed why you sign vets. Take note Thibs. It's a man's game.

I told people Joe Johnson signing was a bargain. It sounds like he earned a bunch of his money tonight.

Edit: And the Jazz are one of the teams below the salary floor.

Him, Hill and Diaw were all very solid. Hayward tried to screw them out of a win but the vets wouldn't have it. It made me think a lot about our team.

They have a big free agency though, Hayward, hill and I believe ingles all free agents. Hood due for an extention and favors has 1 year left after this year

Yes they do. I was curious what they got for Kanter and seeing what they have for draft picks makes me see now giving up the draft pick last year to get Hill makes more sense. They have GS pick this year and have OKC's lottery protected pick next year and are owed some 2nd rounders the next few years too. I would have liked to pick up Diaw last summer. There will always be some deals like that I think the Wolves should jump on them if they basically just have to absorb salary or even get paid to take the player on.

Monster -- I think you zeroed in on the only viable strategy for the Wolves this summer. As I continue looking at the 2017 FA list I have a hard time coming up with a realistic acquisition that would make a significant positive difference for us without busting the budget. So I think the only viable option for the Wolves this summer is to find a trading partner who wants our draft pick and is also looking to dump salary. It would probably be a team that feels it has hit the wall and needs to retrench and rebuild. Or it might be a bottom dweller that has a really good highly-paid player they'd be happy to unload in exchange for a high draft pick to aid their ongoing rebuilding process.

The most likely candidates for teams ready to reverse course and start a rebuilding process, in my view, would be the Pacers, Bulls and Clippers. I can't think of any bottoms dwellers who'd want our pick and who also have a player we'd want. The Pacers, Bulls, and Clippers each have a player I'd like and who I think would be major needle movers for us, provided we don't have to give up more than our pick and someone other than KAT, Wiggins, LaVine, Gorgui, Ricky or Dunn. The Pacers have Paul George. The Bulls have Jimmy Butler. The Clippers have D'Andre Jordan. I could see the Pacers giving us Paul George in exchange for our pick + Adrian Payne. I could see the Bulls dealing Jimmy Butler to us for our pick and Belly but only if our pick is a top 3. I can see the same possibility with the Clippers for Jordan, but again it would have to be a top 3.

I was also thinking about Dwight Howard. I'm wondering what Atlanta would expect in return for him. Would the 6th pick and Belly be enough? Would that be a good deal for us?

To answer your last paragraph, I don't want George because he is dying to get to LA so even if we were a "fake contender" like the jazz are this year I don't think George resigns, with butler I think lavine would have to be added possibly wiggins just because of the bad relationship between thibs and the Bulls (I would not do that trade of wiggins is involved). I think jordan makes a lot of sense and the only team higher in the standings for lotto balls that I think would trade for jordan should be Boston.

Dwight is an interesting one. I think he is underrated now but still is on the decline with a big contact if we did do something I would do something like #6, Belly, tyus for Howard, their pick, our pick back from the payne trade and a guy like scott

No Dwight Howard. Please.

He's on a pretty steep decline. He's not a great leader. (closer to terrible) And he plays a style that limits what the Wolves can do.

KAT is the future at the 5. We all know the Wolves need his defense to improve to pull that off. But that's today's NBA.

Utah has a couple guys they need to pay and a roster stacked with talent. They could easily want another draft pick to reset their pay days. Burks, Hood, Exum, Favors, Lyles. All guys that might be up for grabs. Hood and their later first round pick for 6 and Tyus would be interesting to me.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:Utah showed why you sign vets. Take note Thibs. It's a man's game.

I told people Joe Johnson signing was a bargain. It sounds like he earned a bunch of his money tonight.

Edit: And the Jazz are one of the teams below the salary floor.

Him, Hill and Diaw were all very solid. Hayward tried to screw them out of a win but the vets wouldn't have it. It made me think a lot about our team.

They have a big free agency though, Hayward, hill and I believe ingles all free agents. Hood due for an extention and favors has 1 year left after this year

Yes they do. I was curious what they got for Kanter and seeing what they have for draft picks makes me see now giving up the draft pick last year to get Hill makes more sense. They have GS pick this year and have OKC's lottery protected pick next year and are owed some 2nd rounders the next few years too. I would have liked to pick up Diaw last summer. There will always be some deals like that I think the Wolves should jump on them if they basically just have to absorb salary or even get paid to take the player on.

Monster -- I think you zeroed in on the only viable strategy for the Wolves this summer. As I continue looking at the 2017 FA list I have a hard time coming up with a realistic acquisition that would make a significant positive difference for us without busting the budget. So I think the only viable option for the Wolves this summer is to find a trading partner who wants our draft pick and is also looking to dump salary. It would probably be a team that feels it has hit the wall and needs to retrench and rebuild. Or it might be a bottom dweller that has a really good highly-paid player they'd be happy to unload in exchange for a high draft pick to aid their ongoing rebuilding process.

The most likely candidates for teams ready to reverse course and start a rebuilding process, in my view, would be the Pacers, Bulls and Clippers. I can't think of any bottoms dwellers who'd want our pick and who also have a player we'd want. The Pacers, Bulls, and Clippers each have a player I'd like and who I think would be major needle movers for us, provided we don't have to give up more than our pick and someone other than KAT, Wiggins, LaVine, Gorgui, Ricky or Dunn. The Pacers have Paul George. The Bulls have Jimmy Butler. The Clippers have D'Andre Jordan. I could see the Pacers giving us Paul George in exchange for our pick + Adrian Payne. I could see the Bulls dealing Jimmy Butler to us for our pick and Belly but only if our pick is a top 3. I can see the same possibility with the Clippers for Jordan, but again it would have to be a top 3.

I was also thinking about Dwight Howard. I'm wondering what Atlanta would expect in return for him. Would the 6th pick and Belly be enough? Would that be a good deal for us?

I've come to the expectation that Paul George would probably be a one year rental and so if he doesn't extend before the deal, I pass. I really like Butler and there is a fair chance he extends with us, so I'd be ok with trading Lavine or our pick for him. Jordan is an interesting name. Covington and Otto Porter would be my other trade targets, both young and would be great fits for our needs.

TeamRicky wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:Utah showed why you sign vets. Take note Thibs. It's a man's game.

I told people Joe Johnson signing was a bargain. It sounds like he earned a bunch of his money tonight.

Edit: And the Jazz are one of the teams below the salary floor.

Him, Hill and Diaw were all very solid. Hayward tried to screw them out of a win but the vets wouldn't have it. It made me think a lot about our team.

They have a big free agency though, Hayward, hill and I believe ingles all free agents. Hood due for an extention and favors has 1 year left after this year

Yes they do. I was curious what they got for Kanter and seeing what they have for draft picks makes me see now giving up the draft pick last year to get Hill makes more sense. They have GS pick this year and have OKC's lottery protected pick next year and are owed some 2nd rounders the next few years too. I would have liked to pick up Diaw last summer. There will always be some deals like that I think the Wolves should jump on them if they basically just have to absorb salary or even get paid to take the player on.

Monster -- I think you zeroed in on the only viable strategy for the Wolves this summer. As I continue looking at the 2017 FA list I have a hard time coming up with a realistic acquisition that would make a significant positive difference for us without busting the budget. So I think the only viable option for the Wolves this summer is to find a trading partner who wants our draft pick and is also looking to dump salary. It would probably be a team that feels it has hit the wall and needs to retrench and rebuild. Or it might be a bottom dweller that has a really good highly-paid player they'd be happy to unload in exchange for a high draft pick to aid their ongoing rebuilding process.

The most likely candidates for teams ready to reverse course and start a rebuilding process, in my view, would be the Pacers, Bulls and Clippers. I can't think of any bottoms dwellers who'd want our pick and who also have a player we'd want. The Pacers, Bulls, and Clippers each have a player I'd like and who I think would be major needle movers for us, provided we don't have to give up more than our pick and someone other than KAT, Wiggins, LaVine, Gorgui, Ricky or Dunn. The Pacers have Paul George. The Bulls have Jimmy Butler. The Clippers have D'Andre Jordan. I could see the Pacers giving us Paul George in exchange for our pick + Adrian Payne. I could see the Bulls dealing Jimmy Butler to us for our pick and Belly but only if our pick is a top 3. I can see the same possibility with the Clippers for Jordan, but again it would have to be a top 3.

I was also thinking about Dwight Howard. I'm wondering what Atlanta would expect in return for him. Would the 6th pick and Belly be enough? Would that be a good deal for us?

I've come to the expectation that Paul George would probably be a one year rental and so if he doesn't extend before the deal, I pass. I really like Butler and there is a fair chance he extends with us, so I'd be ok with trading Lavine or our pick for him. Jordan is an interesting name. Covington and Otto Porter would be my other trade targets, both young and would be great fits for our needs.

Could be wrong here but think there are new sign and trade rules. A player can't be traded until the middle of December (heard that in bill simmons podcast today so I don't know how accurate it is)