Minnesota Sports Forum

To speak to Q's comments about expectations of players offensively and defensively...

Kris Dunn was considered a ready to play likely star PG in this league or at least really good. This was said by lots of basketball folks from every area of the game you could find. There were skeptics but there were a ton of people that said this guy was gonna be a really good player. There is no way all that hype meant he was only a defensive wizard. People legitimately thought he was going to be pretty good offensively and of course he was supposed to have really high level abilities defensively. We know all this right? So...unlike others before him that were picked as some sort of 2 way players Dunn to me while not arriving as a top level defender yet showed me more than I could have ever expected as far as potential. A PG that averaged over 2 steals and a block a game per 36 is pretty good. He rebounded at a healthy enough rate and the guy just often played bigger than what he is. Offensively he was disappointing even to the skeptics like that wondered about some weaknesses that were noted looking at his game in college. He did improve offensively as the year went on and despite him being old etc it's still possible he could be a worthwhile offensive player but damn that defense looked impressive. I think I would rather be surprised at Dunn's level of ability defensively and have him struggle offensively than the other way around. That's partly because his defensive potential is REALLY high. Will he round into form over the next couple years and become a solid all around player? I hope so he is the type of do shot tough kid this team desperately needs.

One comment about Dieng. Coming into the league you wondered if he was a guy you could have your defense sort of built around or he could at least some of the time cover up for others with his length and shotblocking ability. That Isn't the case so far. I do think he is a guy that can be a nice piece to a defense if a system is in place and players around him do their job. The guy works hard rebounds decently and keeps balls alive. Bigs that get over 1 block and 1 steal a game that also don't foul at a crazy rate typically have some good value. Offensively he brings some good skill so it's not just him setting screens rolling to the basket he actually can do other stuff including giving your team some spacing from various spots on the floor. He is actually a pretty good passer. So Dieng ended up not being a guy you can build around but more of a glue guy on both ends. That's not sure a bad thing. If other guys figure out how to play defense his abilities on that end could go up. Plenty of other solid players look better when they play with good players. Did Tristan Thompson just magically figure it out how to play defense when teamed with Lebron and a new coaching staff? Did the metrics from his seasons before lie about is abilities? Dieng might not become that level of important player but some day we may be talking about how his contract is a bargain for all he does for the team. We will see. It's not just on him to improve. That's not giving him a pass it's reality.

Q12543 wrote:The problem with most lottery picks is that they are ranked highly primarily because of their offensive upside. Meanwhile, the NBA's best defenders often come much later in the draft: Draymond Green, Rudy Gobert, Tony Allen, Patrick Beverley, Avery Bradley, DeAndre Jordan, etc.

Bazz, LaVine, Wiggins, KAT....all offense first guys. Dunn was the exception, but it's rare that an upperclassmen goes as high as he did. Who is the defense first guy in this draft and why doesn't that side of the ball carry more weight?

I think that still quite many of the best defenders have been actually pretty high draft picks.

Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, Andrew Bogut, Antonio Davis, John Wall and LeBron James were all 1st picks, Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd and Marcus Camby 2nd, Chauncey Billups 3rd, Chris Paul and Mike Conley 4th, Kevin Garnett 5th, Shane Battier 6th, Luol Deng and Kirk Hinrich 7th, Joakim Noah and Andre Iguodala 9th and Paul George 10th. All those players have been selected at least once for all defensive 1st or 2nd team and many of them have been multiple all defensive team members..

Even last couple of drafts have several lottery picks that are already playing pretty good defense. In addition of already mentioned Antonio Davis, Steven Adams as 12th pick, Klay Thompson 11th, Justise Winslow 10th, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 8th, Biyombo 7th, Nerlens Noel and Marcus Smart 6th, Tristan Thompson 4th, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and Victor Oladipo as 2nd pick have already proven to be at least solid defenders. I think that what is common between those high draft pick is that almost none of them has started as high usage player in offensive end. They have had first to prove that they can defend well enough and only then they have got minutes.

Mikkeman wrote:

Q12543 wrote:The problem with most lottery picks is that they are ranked highly primarily because of their offensive upside. Meanwhile, the NBA's best defenders often come much later in the draft: Draymond Green, Rudy Gobert, Tony Allen, Patrick Beverley, Avery Bradley, DeAndre Jordan, etc.

Bazz, LaVine, Wiggins, KAT....all offense first guys. Dunn was the exception, but it's rare that an upperclassmen goes as high as he did. Who is the defense first guy in this draft and why doesn't that side of the ball carry more weight?

I think that still quite many of the best defenders have been actually pretty high draft picks.

Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, Andrew Bogut, Antonio Davis, John Wall and LeBron James were all 1st picks, Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd and Marcus Camby 2nd, Chauncey Billups 3rd, Chris Paul and Mike Conley 4th, Kevin Garnett 5th, Shane Battier 6th, Luol Deng and Kirk Hinrich 7th, Joakim Noah and Andre Iguodala 9th and Paul George 10th. All those players have been selected at least once for all defensive 1st or 2nd team and many of them have been multiple all defensive team members..

Even last couple of drafts have several lottery picks that are already playing pretty good defense. In addition of already mentioned Antonio Davis, Steven Adams as 12th pick, Klay Thompson 11th, Justise Winslow 10th, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 8th, Biyombo 7th, Nerlens Noel and Marcus Smart 6th, Tristan Thompson 4th, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and Victor Oladipo as 2nd pick have already proven to be at least solid defenders. I think that what is common between those high draft pick is that almost none of them has started as high usage player in offensive end. They have had first to prove that they can defend well enough and only then they have got minutes.

Sure, there have been strong defenders that came from the top of the draft. My point is that you can find equally strong defenders and role players later in the draft. Those picks are cheaper, there is less pressure to play them right away, and if you already have a lottery pick, you can swap it for two or more assets, including a lower pick.

Getting back to the original thought behind this thread...

The best thing that can happen this summer is some playoff teams load up and have to pay other guys money and they let go of older vets and the Wolves can pick them up for decent contracts that won't break the bank. I want Sefelosha and Diaw but there are gonna other options some maybe a bit more tantalizing. After that sign a youngish vet that has some promise like Dallas did with Seth Curry last year and draft a good player with the pick. I think that could help this team quite a bit and you can keep some guys like Bazz if the cost is reasonable. Its not going to be a big splash but I think it could really help get this team headed in the right direction. That's where I am right now. I don't think based on his comments Thibs will go with 2 older players like that but maybe he would go for one.