Rubio has been traded to the Jazz for OKC's 2018 pick

[60WinTim]

There is going to be a lot less pressure on KAT and Wig now. I see that as a hidden positive with these moves. Now they can just be what they are - 22 year old budding phenoms - without the burden of turning a moribund franchise around all by themselves. I'm not saying there isn't pressure, but it's going to be a different kind of pressure for them. I see it helping both guys a lot, and maybe even Wig a little bit more.

Agree 100%, Cool! While Wiggins can create his own shot and score, he really hasn't met the expectations most of us had when he was drafted. Surrounded good players who know how to play might really help his game grow.

[WildWolf2813]

There is going to be a lot less pressure on KAT and Wig now. I see that as a hidden positive with these moves. Now they can just be what they are - 22 year old budding phenoms - without the burden of turning a moribund franchise around all by themselves. I'm not saying there isn't pressure, but it's going to be a different kind of pressure for them. I see it helping both guys a lot, and maybe even Wig a little bit more.

I think all the pressure is gonna be on Wiggins now.

Thibs built a team that you'd think could be a playoff team, but it's on Wiggins to be the difference between being a team that just makes the playoffs and a team that goes farther than that.

[Squishypoo [enjin:6648839]]

I'm disillusioned enough where I see this team being more than JUST a playoff team. I realize what our cap space situation was. That's why I was about continuing to build organically, like I feel flip intended.

Sure these moves put us in a position to be closer to competing in the playoffs. But they also force us into competition when reality doesn't exactly connect on true contending.

I really believe these moves put us closer to ANOTHER rebuild than they move us to ACTUAL competitiveness.

Time will tell...

lol

Care to elaborate?

Sure, we are in the playoffs 1000000%. We have to, and we will. But I don't care about just making the 2nd round or even the damn WCF. You're kidding yourselves if this has any relevency to making it any further in the next few years. These moves do nothing more than get us talked about as a pretender. We aren't a destination, never will be.. accept that. This is akin to a job saving, owner appeasing off-season. Nothing more. The blinder

There is going to be a lot less pressure on KAT and Wig now. I see that as a hidden positive with these moves. Now they can just be what they are - 22 year old budding phenoms - without the burden of turning a moribund franchise around all by themselves. I'm not saying there isn't pressure, but it's going to be a different kind of pressure for them. I see it helping both guys a lot, and maybe even Wig a little bit more.

I think all the pressure is gonna be on Wiggins now.

Thibs built a team that you'd think could be a playoff team, but it's on Wiggins to be the difference between being a team that just makes the playoffs and a team that goes farther than that.

Lets hope butler shows him the way.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

There is going to be a lot less pressure on KAT and Wig now. I see that as a hidden positive with these moves. Now they can just be what they are - 22 year old budding phenoms - without the burden of turning a moribund franchise around all by themselves. I'm not saying there isn't pressure, but it's going to be a different kind of pressure for them. I see it helping both guys a lot, and maybe even Wig a little bit more.

I think all the pressure is gonna be on Wiggins now.

Thibs built a team that you'd think could be a playoff team, but it's on Wiggins to be the difference between being a team that just makes the playoffs and a team that goes farther than that.

I think the pressure would be greater for Wiggins with an inexperienced team, but he'll still have some pressure, but now it should be better, more constructive pressure. On an inexperienced team, he would have continued to be one of the 2 focal points on offense, and his development would have made a bigger difference between whether we improve as a team or not because there wouldn't be veterans around to carry the load. With an experienced team, where Wiggins could actually be our 4th or even 5th best starter (assuming we get Millsap), the pressure would actually be off of him to be the focal point of the offense (which would also be good for him to focus more on the little things). So in this sense I think this is a better situation for Wiggins (and for us as a team).

But the bottom line is that Wiggins' development was going to be important no matter what we did this offseason because he is still our biggest wildcard. He's proven himself to be a prolific scorer, but he hasn't shown he can do anything else. Plus, the time to extend him is coming up, regardless of the rest of our roster. The good news is that he now has an opportunity to play with Butler, a high-IQ, two-way wing who is much more savvy, focused, and driven. And with Teague and maybe Millsap or Redick, he'll have another good vet or two with playoff experience who can model what it means to play with his head and his heart and not just rely on his athleticism.

All of this is also a plus for Towns, but Wiggins has more to prove and less time to prove it, regardless of who his teammates are.

[TAFKASP]

[indent] [/indent]

There is going to be a lot less pressure on KAT and Wig now. I see that as a hidden positive with these moves. Now they can just be what they are - 22 year old budding phenoms - without the burden of turning a moribund franchise around all by themselves. I'm not saying there isn't pressure, but it's going to be a different kind of pressure for them. I see it helping both guys a lot, and maybe even Wig a little bit more.

I think all the pressure is gonna be on Wiggins now.

Thibs built a team that you'd think could be a playoff team, but it's on Wiggins to be the difference between being a team that just makes the playoffs and a team that goes farther than that.

Curious how it feels to have gone from at best 1B to KAT's 1A to 3rd on the pecking order? Does he pout or does he double down his effort to reclaim his position at the top? Hate to say it, while he doesn't strike me as the quitter type he also doesn't strike me as the type motivated by a grudge either.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I'm just getting to the board and catching up on comments on yesterday's trnasactions. While the Butler deal had about 95% acclaim, I see the vote on this one a little more even...with a slight nod to the pro-trade group. I was a huge fan of the Butler deal, but the Ricky/Teague just doesn't do it for me. It's not that I don't like Teague, because I've always had a favorable opinion about him. I admit that I am emotionally attached to Rubio (after all, he's second all-time for franchise assists and steals in only 6 seasons!) so some of my opinion may be colored by that. But I also think the numbers say Rubio is currently a better player. I think most NBA followers would agree that a 26-year-old player hasn't reached his peak yet and still has upside, and I think that is demonstrated by Rubio's post all-star game numbers. Here are his numbers compared to the more expensive and older Teague:

PPG: 16 vs. 15.1
APG: 10.5 vs. 7.1
RPG: 4.6 vs. 3.8
Steals: 1.5 vs. .8
3-point %: 35.3 vs. 36.6

Rubio's stats were better than Teague's in the most recent half season in all areas except 3-point shooting, and I don't see a 1.3% difference very significant (in fact, Teague is only 3 percentage points better than Ricky for their careers, even though his 3-point superiority is touted here as a clear advantage). The only area where I see Teague as clearly superior to Ricky is in finishing at the rim...Teague is exceptional and Ricky is bad. But Ricky's superior defense and playmaking overpowers that one Teague advantage.

I am hoping for the best here, but it's just not a deal I would have made. Ricky clearly became an emerging offensive force as he approached his peak years and got comfortable with Thibs' style, and a late first round draft pick doesn't seem like adequate compensation for losing a guy who fits better with this team and put up better stats than his replacement the last half of the year.

Teague isn't going to hurt us this year...he's a good PG and this team is already so strong with Butler, KAT and Wig that I think they will at least be first round playoff winners. But the three-year $19 million per year deal is really going to hamstring us financially in 2019-20 (more on this in another thread) and I see this as Leyden and Thibs' first management blunder. I hope they have a good reason for what star they are going to unload to stay out of a very high lux tax in 2019-20.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

This is for you LST:
[youtube]7BgzrfUA8lo[/youtube]

Ha, good one, doper! I almost flew down to Chicago with some friends yesterday to see the Dead and Friends (with John Mayer on guitar) at Wrigley, but life got in the way.

I am going through a little grieving about Ricky being gone...

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I'm just getting to the board and catching up on comments on yesterday's trnasactions. While the Butler deal had about 95% acclaim, I see the vote on this one a little more even...with a slight nod to the pro-trade group. I was a huge fan of the Butler deal, but the Ricky/Teague just doesn't do it for me. It's not that I don't like Teague, because I've always had a favorable opinion about him. I admit that I am emotionally attached to Rubio (after all, he's second all-time for franchise assists and steals in only 6 seasons!) so some of my opinion may be colored by that. But I also think the numbers say Rubio is currently a better player. I think most NBA followers would agree that a 26-year-old player hasn't reached his peak yet and still has upside, and I think that is demonstrated by Rubio's post all-star game numbers. Here are his numbers compared to the more expensive and older Teague:

PPG: 16 vs. 15.1
APG: 10.5 vs. 7.1
RPG: 4.6 vs. 3.8
Steals: 1.5 vs. .8
3-point %: 35.3 vs. 36.6

Rubio's stats were better than Teague's in the most recent half season in all areas except 3-point shooting, and I don't see a 1.3% difference very significant (in fact, Teague is only 3 percentage points better than Ricky for their careers, even though his 3-point superiority is touted here as a clear advantage). The only area where I see Teague as clearly superior to Ricky is in finishing at the rim...Teague is exceptional and Ricky is bad. But Ricky's superior defense and playmaking overpowers that one Teague advantage.

I am hoping for the best here, but it's just not a deal I would have made. Ricky clearly became an emerging offensive force as he approached his peak years and got comfortable with Thibs' style, and a late first round draft pick doesn't seem like adequate compensation for losing a guy who fits better with this team and put up better stats than his replacement the last half of the year.

Teague isn't going to hurt us this year...he's a good PG and this team is already so strong with Butler, KAT and Wig that I think they will at least be first round playoff winners. But the three-year $19 million per year deal is really going to hamstring us financially in 2019-20 (more on this in another thread) and I see this as Leyden and Thibs' first management blunder. I hope they have a good reason for what star they are going to unload to stay out of a very high lux tax in 2019-20.

How many times has the board put too much stock in the closing months of the season? Two years ago we close the season strong and the sky's the limit and we come out poorly this year. There's just too much stock put into two months when some teams are tanking, some are resting and some are just not bringing it every night, but aren't flat out tanking. I don't buy that the last two months is who Ricky is now when everything prior to those two months was relatively the same player. I'll believe the improvement when he shows it for a full year, otherwise it's just another flash we see from so many young players.

[60WinTim]

I don't know what to say, LST, other than "congratulations on finding I sample size that fits your feelings"...

If you are looking for a pick-me-up, just check out Teague's playoff number this year!

[Monster]

I'm just getting to the board and catching up on comments on yesterday's trnasactions. While the Butler deal had about 95% acclaim, I see the vote on this one a little more even...with a slight nod to the pro-trade group. I was a huge fan of the Butler deal, but the Ricky/Teague just doesn't do it for me. It's not that I don't like Teague, because I've always had a favorable opinion about him. I admit that I am emotionally attached to Rubio (after all, he's second all-time for franchise assists and steals in only 6 seasons!) so some of my opinion may be colored by that. But I also think the numbers say Rubio is currently a better player. I think most NBA followers would agree that a 26-year-old player hasn't reached his peak yet and still has upside, and I think that is demonstrated by Rubio's post all-star game numbers. Here are his numbers compared to the more expensive and older Teague:

PPG: 16 vs. 15.1
APG: 10.5 vs. 7.1
RPG: 4.6 vs. 3.8
Steals: 1.5 vs. .8
3-point %: 35.3 vs. 36.6

Rubio's stats were better than Teague's in the most recent half season in all areas except 3-point shooting, and I don't see a 1.3% difference very significant (in fact, Teague is only 3 percentage points better than Ricky for their careers, even though his 3-point superiority is touted here as a clear advantage). The only area where I see Teague as clearly superior to Ricky is in finishing at the rim...Teague is exceptional and Ricky is bad. But Ricky's superior defense and playmaking overpowers that one Teague advantage.

I am hoping for the best here, but it's just not a deal I would have made. Ricky clearly became an emerging offensive force as he approached his peak years and got comfortable with Thibs' style, and a late first round draft pick doesn't seem like adequate compensation for losing a guy who fits better with this team and put up better stats than his replacement the last half of the year.

Teague isn't going to hurt us this year...he's a good PG and this team is already so strong with Butler, KAT and Wig that I think they will at least be first round playoff winners. But the three-year $19 million per year deal is really going to hamstring us financially in 2019-20 (more on this in another thread) and I see this as Leyden and Thibs' first management blunder. I hope they have a good reason for what star they are going to unload to stay out of a very high lux tax in 2019-20.

LST this morning I was thinking about Rubio and Teague and the more I think about it I think they sold high on Rubio (to a small extent) and bought low on Teague. Why?

A little over a year ago Teague with 1 year left on a cheap contract but a year from becoming expensive cost a lottery pick. Sure maybe that wasn't a good move but Teague was clearly with some sort of draft compensation and some basketball folks were really sold on how good players at that spot would be. It wasn't that long ago Teague was considered a young exciting PG and has started for very good playoff teams that at times you could argue overachieved. Those Atlanta teams played defense. He just came off one of the best seasons of us career shooting the ball from various spots on the floor (sounds like Rubio...) and did it playing for a somewhat mediocre team that did win 42 games. Teague is getting paid like a legit starter in this new CBA so the contract is reasonable.

Rubio had the best year of his career finally shot over 40% from the floor and still couldn't hit a 3 at a decent rate. It also wasn't that long ago that Rubio wasn't really a good defensive player he was more Corey Brewer than a positive defender that he has been at times the last couple years. He still has some flaws on that end. Should we just forget about the first couple of months of the season where he played terrible on both ends even if giving Thibs sole of the blame plus Rubio being hurt? The Wolves got a protected 1st rounder for Rubio which could be very valuable.

I love Rubio but the fit with Teague is obvious and even though I'm not the biggest Teague fan I think it's actually fairly easy to suggest he is the better player overall and easily a better fit.