Interesting statistics thread

[thedoper]

Here we go. Man our bench has been hurting the last 5 games.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I haven't update this in a while....Latest Net Ratings from NBA.com, including today's game:

Gibson - +7.7
Wiggins - +4.7
Butler - +3.8
Jones - +3.4
Bjelly - +2.7
Teague - +2.0
KAT - -.4
Dieng - -7.7
Crawford - -10.2
Muhammad - -19.5

- Of the starters, KAT has by far the worst defensive rating. He's truly a liability on that end of the floor and it's why his net rating is in the negative. On the other hand, he has the second best offensive rating on the team.

- Wiggins' net rating has continued to creep up. That tells me he is doing more of the little things that help a team out. I still hate his shot selection and he isn't exactly filling up the box score, but at least positive things are happening when he's on the floor.

- The backup wings of Crawford and Muhammad are just killing us. Yes, on any given night one of them can get a little hot and score some points, but these guys are just disasters on defense. When a team starts raining 3's on us or going on a major run, you better believe one or both of these guys are on the floor.

[Monster]

I haven't update this in a while....Latest Net Ratings from NBA.com, including today's game:

Gibson - +7.7
Wiggins - +4.7
Butler - +3.8
Jones - +3.4
Bjelly - +2.7
Teague - +2.0
KAT - -.4
Dieng - -7.7
Crawford - -10.2
Muhammad - -19.5

- Of the starters, KAT has by far the worst defensive rating. He's truly a liability on that end of the floor and it's why his net rating is in the negative. On the other hand, he has the second best offensive rating on the team.

- Wiggins' net rating has continued to creep up. That tells me he is doing more of the little things that help a team out. I still hate his shot selection and he isn't exactly filling up the box score, but at least positive things are happening when he's on the floor.

- The backup wings of Crawford and Muhammad are just killing us. Yes, on any given night one of them can get a little hot and score some points, but these guys are just disasters on defense. When a team starts raining 3's on us or going on a major run, you better believe one or both of these guys are on the floor.

Thanks for the numbers Q. I think it's reallstic to think Dieng trends more towards being a net positive than where he is now. That will be a big boast. I also think Crawford offers some nice ability to create shots which yes it's good and bad but nice to have.

Bazz...he offers nothing game to game that really makes him valuable at this point. Wolfson in a recent podcast said he talked to someone who works in the league and they couldn't figure out why the Wolves were even playing and and said he things Bazz will be out of the league next year. If he keeps playing this bad I can see that for sure but he can't be this bad offensively all year. I mean he isn't even hitting corner 3's. The Wolves may have dodged a bullet with Bazz turning down offers twice in less than a year.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Here is some interesting lineup data:

- Our starting 5-man unit has a net rating of +5.7, which is solid, but not great. Just as a point of comparison, the Pelicans starting 5 has a net rating of +6.6 and Denver's a net rating of +12.0.

- If you look at the various combinations of 3-man lineups for Minnesota with over 100 minutes played (a total of 17), the top 6 in terms of Net Rating all have Jimmy Butler in the lineup. The Butler-Wiggins-Gibson trio is tops, with a net rating of +7.6. Bjelly-Crawford-Dieng is at the bottom at -13.3.

- The Crawford-Muhammad-KAT trio has played 97 minutes together (just under my cutoff above). They have an Ortg of 103.9 and a Drtg of 125.3, for a net rating of -21.4. These three should never be allowed on the court at the same time. Opponents' eyes light up!

- The best 2-man lineup with a minimum of 100 minutes played together? Tyus Jones and Taj Gibson, with a net rating of +39.3! Keep in mind that's over a 16 game time frame. The worst? KAT and Muhammad at -24.0.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I haven't update this in a while....Latest Net Ratings from NBA.com, including today's game:

Gibson - +7.7
Wiggins - +4.7
Butler - +3.8
Jones - +3.4
Bjelly - +2.7
Teague - +2.0
KAT - -.4
Dieng - -7.7
Crawford - -10.2
Muhammad - -19.5

- Of the starters, KAT has by far the worst defensive rating. He's truly a liability on that end of the floor and it's why his net rating is in the negative. On the other hand, he has the second best offensive rating on the team.

- Wiggins' net rating has continued to creep up. That tells me he is doing more of the little things that help a team out. I still hate his shot selection and he isn't exactly filling up the box score, but at least positive things are happening when he's on the floor.

- The backup wings of Crawford and Muhammad are just killing us. Yes, on any given night one of them can get a little hot and score some points, but these guys are just disasters on defense. When a team starts raining 3's on us or going on a major run, you better believe one or both of these guys are on the floor.

Thanks for the numbers Q. I think it's reallstic to think Dieng trends more towards being a net positive than where he is now. That will be a big boast. I also think Crawford offers some nice ability to create shots which yes it's good and bad but nice to have.

Bazz...he offers nothing game to game that really makes him valuable at this point. Wolfson in a recent podcast said he talked to someone who works in the league and they couldn't figure out why the Wolves were even playing and and said he things Bazz will be out of the league next year. If he keeps playing this bad I can see that for sure but he can't be this bad offensively all year. I mean he isn't even hitting corner 3's. The Wolves may have dodged a bullet with Bazz turning down offers twice in less than a year.

Yeah, Dieng has been a disappointment this year. I think the hope was that he would help stabilize that second unit after playing against starters all of last year. That really hasn't worked out yet.

[Lipoli390]

I'm not a big fan of the plus/minus stat because so much of it depends on who you're playing with. Crawford has come up big for the Wolves in a number of games, hitting shots for us when no one else was. KAT's numbers reflect to some extent the fact that he ends up playing more with the weaker bench guys than other starters. Yet, the plus/minus numbers aren't totally meaningless and do tell us something about how these individual players are performing to date this season.

Projecting how some of these players will perform going forward, I see the following:

1. Crawford -- I don't see Crawford getting any better and I can see his numbers getting worse. First, he's currently a -10.2 even though his 3-point shooting currently exceeds his career average. Second, he's 37 years old. So I think we've seen the best of Crawford.

2. Belly -- Belly will likely decline. He's been playing great, but I sense that he's going to regress to his mean. In fact, he was already regressing in the few games before his injury.

3. Bazz -- Bazz will improve offensively. Based on prior seasons, he's not this bad.

4. KAT -- KAT is already improving defensively over the past few games and I expect that improvement to continue. He's still very young and he's super-competitive. So I see him ramping up significantly overall the rest of the season.

5. Wiggins -- I'm not sure about him. There is no denying his improvement in the "do-stuff" category. But I'm a bit gun-shy when it comes to Wiggins because I've always sensed you can't count on his motor. On the other hand, his motor has been on most of the time so far this season. If his motor continues to rev as it has and he improves his shot selection, taking more threes and fewer contested 2s then it's exciting to think of how much better he'll get. He's still young and learning.

6. Gorgui -- This is the guy I expect to see a lot of improvement from. I think his numbers to date are highly misleading because they reflect a major transition for him from starter to bench player. That can be a very tough adjustment -- learning to go from sitting cold to playing hot and also learning to play with an entirely new set of teammates. He's already shown significant improvement the past two games.

[Monster]

Butler is going to keep rising. For example it was around a week ago his advanced stats were pretty underwhelming. Now he is in the top 40 overall in RPM and 8th for SGs.

Bazz might be trending in the right direction as I just looked at his November numbers which are not good but certainly not terrible either. His October stats including his time as a starter are horrific. I'm not suggesting he has been good in November because he clearly hasn't but there is some sign of life. He started off very slow last year before finding himself (beyond his 3 point shooting) and had his most efficient year of his career. We need se bench players to step up and Bazz COULD be one of those guys. Nobody is holding their breath though. Lol

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Lip, On Wiggins, the perception that he is improving in the "do shit" category I always refer to really doesn't hold water when you dig deeper into his stats. He is at or below his career averages in assist rate, rebound rate, and free throw rate. His TS% is at an inefficient 52.6%, which is very bad for a modern day starting wing. Even when you look at the Hustle stats on NBA.com - deflections, shot contests, loose balls recovered, and charges taken - he is pretty much at or below his numbers from last year. His PER and WS/48 are both below league average (more so WS/48 than PER) and in line with his career mediocrity in these stats.

In other words, on paper, there is really not much different about Wiggins. I think his primary benefit is that he plays next to Jimmy Butler, who typically checks the #1 perimeter option of the opposing team and also has more of the ball handling responsibility on offense.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Lip, On Wiggins, the perception that he is improving in the "do shit" category I always refer to really doesn't hold water when you dig deeper into his stats. He is at or below his career averages in assist rate, rebound rate, and free throw rate. His TS% is at an inefficient 52.6%, which is very bad for a modern day starting wing. Even when you look at the Hustle stats on NBA.com - deflections, shot contests, loose balls recovered, and charges taken - he is pretty much at or below his numbers from last year. His PER and WS/48 are both below league average (more so WS/48 than PER) and in line with his career mediocrity in these stats.

In other words, on paper, there is really not much different about Wiggins. I think his primary benefit is that he plays next to Jimmy Butler, who typically checks the #1 perimeter option of the opposing team and also has more of the ball handling responsibility on offense.

I've been trying to hold back when it comes to Wiggins... to varying degrees of success/failure.

Let's just summarize: I'm just not seeing it. And I'm no longer optimistic that we will.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Lip, On Wiggins, the perception that he is improving in the "do shit" category I always refer to really doesn't hold water when you dig deeper into his stats. He is at or below his career averages in assist rate, rebound rate, and free throw rate. His TS% is at an inefficient 52.6%, which is very bad for a modern day starting wing. Even when you look at the Hustle stats on NBA.com - deflections, shot contests, loose balls recovered, and charges taken - he is pretty much at or below his numbers from last year. His PER and WS/48 are both below league average (more so WS/48 than PER) and in line with his career mediocrity in these stats.

In other words, on paper, there is really not much different about Wiggins. I think his primary benefit is that he plays next to Jimmy Butler, who typically checks the #1 perimeter option of the opposing team and also has more of the ball handling responsibility on offense.

I've been trying to hold back when it comes to Wiggins... to varying degrees of success/failure.

Let's just summarize: I'm just not seeing it. And I'm no longer optimistic that we will.

Here is my take on Wiggins: He's a solid NBA starting wing that doesn't do any particular single thing at an elite level (shoot, defend, pass, handle, hustle) and is vastly overpaid. Not good. And time is indeed running out, as we are in Year 4.