Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:OK, here are a few of what I'd consider realistic deals the Wolves should pursue:

1. SIXERS DEAL
Sixers Get: Butler
Wolves Get: (a) Covington, (b) Muscala, (c) Bulls or Kings 2019 2nd rd pk, (c) Heat 2021 1st

Why Wolves would do this? Covington steps in right away as a very solid SF to replace Butler. He's still reasonably young at 27 years old without a lot of mileage on him so he'll still be in his prime a couple seasons from now when KAT, Wiggins and Tyus begin to enter their peak years. He also has a reasonable $10.5M per year contract and has 4 years left, so the Wolves can get full value for him as a player since he can't bolt any time soon. The Kings or Bulls 2nd round pick next years will likely be pretty high - in the 31-38 range and the Miami pick in two years will be unprotected at a time when the Heat could be pretty bad. Muscala would be salary filler and his $5 million would come off the books after this season, so it's also a good deal financially for the Wolves from a salary cap standpoint. I'd definitely try to work a deal to get Saric, but I don't consider it realistic so I'm not going to attempt to put one together in this post. I'll save it for my "moon shot" proposal post.

Why would the Sixers do this? Unlike the Wolves, who were a 30-win team when we traded for Butler, the Sixers were a top 3 seed in the East and advanced a playoff round with their young core. That puts them in a position where it actually makes sense for them to consider bringing in a top veteran who's still in his prime even as he approaches 30 years of age. In fact, their pursuit of K. Leonard shows they already have that in mind. This deal would allow them to keep their two core young stars, Simmons and Embiid, as well as their other highly talented young players, Saric and Fultz, and their 2018 first round pick, Zhaire Smith. They'd also be keeping all their own draft picks. So it would seem like a no-brained for the Sixers.

2. NETS DEAL
Nets Get: Butler
Wolves Get: (a) Carroll, (b) LeVert, (c) Musa, (d) Nuggets 2019 1st, (e) Knicks 2019 2nd rd pk

Why would the Wolves do this? The key benefits of this deal would be two solid draft picks and LeVert, a talented young wing who can handle the ball like a PG, which is a skill the Wolves need at the wing position given Andrew's weakness in that area. Getting Musa might be asking for too much, but another young wing with length would be nice renew the rebuilding process. The Knicks 2nd round pick should be a high one in the 31-38 range. The Nuggets pick is top 12 protected for 5 years before it converts to two second rounders, so the Wolves should get a 13-20 pick at some point. Carroll's value is mainly for salary match, but he could step right in and replace Butler in the starting lineup and help the Wolves stay reasonably competitive this season.

Why would the Nets to this? They get an allstar wing who has listed them as a team he'd resign with. He'd arrive wanting to be there. It would give their franchise instant credibility as they compete with the Knicks for the attention of NBA fans in that City. It could also help them attract a top free agent next summer when they can have a lot of cap space to sign another max player in addition to extending Butler. They'd still keep their most talented young player, Russell, as well. They'd also still have their own 2019 1st and 2nd round picks, so losing the Denver and Knick picks shouldn't be too big of a give for them.

3. CLIPPERS DEAL
Clippers get Butler & Patton
Wolves Get: (a) T. Harris, (b) Gilegeous-Alexander, (c) Clips 2021 1st rd pk-lottery protected

Why would the Wolves do this? Harris is a very good wing who can step in as the Wolves starting SF in place of Butler. Having just turned 26, he fits much better than Butler with our young core. Unlike Wiggins, he's an excellent rebounder and pretty good 3-point shooter, so he does some things Wiggins doesn't, although he's not nearly as talented as Wiggins overall. The downside is that he only has 1 yr. left on his contract, so the Wolves could lose him to free-agency next summer or be faced with a contract demand too steep for the Wolves given their other financial commitments and desire to avoid the luxury tax. For me the key would be Gilegeous-Alexander. He's a PG with unusual length and lots of skills - very intriguing. I'm not sure the Clippers would also give up their 2021 pick, but it would be nice icing for the Wolves.

Why would the Clippers do this? They know plugging Butler in with Lou Williams, Beverley makes them a competitive team that could possibly challenge for the 8th seed. Since they've traded their 2019 1st round pick, they get nothing from tanking this season. Moreover, they're one of the three teams Butler said he'd re-sign with and the Clippers are actually his first choice. Butler's presence would likely help them land a top free agent next summer when they should have cap room to sign another max player.

Good work here Lip. I'm glad you got Musa in there on a deal. :) I also like how you targeted those valueable 2nd round picks.

One thing I think is worth considering is whether the Sixers value Covington or Saric higher. Saric is a good young player but Covington is locked in for 4 seasons starting this year and is a perfect compliment to...well pretty much any team. Saric is cheap this year but could get some kind of decent payday...but probably nothing too crazy as a RFA. I'd be happy getting either one.

Wolfson is reporting that the Wolves are claiming they have an offer for a good player. Obviously that definition is up for debate but I'm feeling encouraged. Last year was a little different but let's be honest even a guy like Butler if healthy at the trade deadline could fetch a decent return. Teams have given up random 1st round picks for rentals and Butler is a top 20 player not some fringe starter type.

Q12543 wrote:Good stuff Lip. I feel any deal needs to bring back a legit starting-level wing and a future prospect, which could be a 1st or 2nd year player or future draft pick. And then obviously there may need to be others involved to make the salaries work.

Of the ones you outline above, the Philly offer works best because Covington can step right in to be our 3 & D wing. He is probably every bit the defender that Butler is...may be even a bit better. He obviously is not nearly as skilled offensively.

Tobias Harris is a nice young player, but he plays mostly PF and I question his defensive chops. We absolutely need a legit wing coming back to us in any of these deals. Otto Porter, Josh Richardson, Robert Covington....those are the ones that really appeal to me the most.

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Good stuff Lip. I feel any deal needs to bring back a legit starting-level wing and a future prospect, which could be a 1st or 2nd year player or future draft pick. And then obviously there may need to be others involved to make the salaries work.

Of the ones you outline above, the Philly offer works best because Covington can step right in to be our 3 & D wing. He is probably every bit the defender that Butler is...may be even a bit better. He obviously is not nearly as skilled offensively.

Tobias Harris is a nice young player, but he plays mostly PF and I question his defensive chops. We absolutely need a legit wing coming back to us in any of these deals. Otto Porter, Josh Richardson, Robert Covington....those are the ones that really appeal to me the most.

While I would prefer to bring back a legit starting-level wing along with a future prospect, I don't consider it an absolute need. The Wolves' #1 goal for any Butler deal should be the acquisition of young or youngish talent regardless of position. Saric is a tremendous young talent who is a perfect stretch 4 in today's NBA. I'd be willing to rely on some combination of Nunnally, Deng, Okogie and KBD at the other wing position for this upcoming season if he meant getting a talent like Saric. My main concern with Saric is the limited 2 years left on his contract. So for that reason, I'd probably lean towards my Covington scenario. He fits the bill as a youngish talent and, as you said, he can step in right away as a very solid starting wing who plays both sides of the ball at a high level.

Your post caused me to re-think the Tobias Harris deal. You're right that he's perhaps more of a stretch 4 than a 3 and his defense isn't the best. That's part of why I'd insist on getting G-Alexander back as part of the deal. But I think some of the deal scenarios with other teams would probably be better for the Wolves.

Here's the minimum I would have to get back as part of any deal with any of the teams talked about so far as possible suitors:

Clippers - (1) T. Harris, (2) G-Alexander & (3) Clips 2021 1st rd pk lottery protected
Sixers -- (1) Covington or Saric & (2) future 1st rd pk top 12 protected or better
Wizards - (1) Beal or Porter & (2) a future 1st rd pk no worse than lottery protected
Heat -- (1) J. Richardson & (2) either Bam or Heat's 2019 1st rd top 5 protected
Cavs -- (1) Sexton & (2) future unprotected 1st rd pk

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Good stuff Lip. I feel any deal needs to bring back a legit starting-level wing and a future prospect, which could be a 1st or 2nd year player or future draft pick. And then obviously there may need to be others involved to make the salaries work.

Of the ones you outline above, the Philly offer works best because Covington can step right in to be our 3 & D wing. He is probably every bit the defender that Butler is...may be even a bit better. He obviously is not nearly as skilled offensively.

Tobias Harris is a nice young player, but he plays mostly PF and I question his defensive chops. We absolutely need a legit wing coming back to us in any of these deals. Otto Porter, Josh Richardson, Robert Covington....those are the ones that really appeal to me the most.

While I would prefer to bring back a legit starting-level wing along with a future prospect, I don't consider it an absolute need. The Wolves' #1 goal for any Butler deal should be the acquisition of young or youngish talent regardless of position. Saric is a tremendous young talent who is a perfect stretch 4 in today's NBA. I'd be willing to rely on some combination of Nunnally, Deng, Okogie and KBD at the other wing position for this upcoming season if he meant getting a talent like Saric. My main concern with Saric is the limited 2 years left on his contract. So for that reason, I'd probably lean towards my Covington scenario. He fits the bill as a youngish talent and, as you said, he can step in right away as a very solid starting wing who plays both sides of the ball at a high level.

Your post caused me to re-think the Tobias Harris deal. You're right that he's perhaps more of a stretch 4 than a 3 and his defense isn't the best. That's part of why I'd insist on getting G-Alexander back as part of the deal. But I think some of the deal scenarios with other teams would probably be better for the Wolves.

Here's the minimum I would have to get back as part of any deal with any of the teams talked about so far as possible suitors:

Clippers - (1) T. Harris, (2) G-Alexander & (3) Clips 2021 1st rd pk lottery protected
Sixers -- (1) Covington or Saric & (2) future 1st rd pk top 12 protected or better
Wizards - (1) Beal or Porter & (2) a future 1st rd pk no worse than lottery protected
Heat -- (1) J. Richardson & (2) either Bam or Heat's 2019 1st rd top 5 protected
Cavs -- (1) Sexton & (2) future unprotected 1st rd pk

If you want Saric in the Sixers deal and some immediate wing help then you ask for Wilson Chandler to help match salaries. He is decent and an expiring contract.

I'm not sure Tobias Harris being a PF is a problem. We don't have that position solved for the future. He turned down 5 years 80 million. That's not a massive deal. His defense is a concern though but I'm not sure what level of concern there should be. Another consideration is that his 3 point shooting isn't a complete given. The guy did turn 26 a few weeks ago there could actually still be more growth from his game. I'd rather get a more const controled guy that turns into a To ias Harris type but he is a pretty nice player.

WildWolf2813 wrote:I think Thibs would look like a bonafide idiot if by some chance he'd acquire Fultz when he was so determined to trade Rubio

TheSP wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:I think Thibs would look like a bonafide idiot if by some chance he'd acquire Fultz when he was so determined to trade Rubio

Are there any other scenarios where you could envision Thibs looking like an idiot?

KiwiMatt wrote:Rumour circulating on Get More Sport with Butler going to Brooklyn for D'Angelo Russel and Hollis-Jefferson. Another player would need to be added to match salaries.

I would want at least one of Jarrett Allen, Caris LaVert or a Nuggets 2019 1st round pick as well.