Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:My legit question is how much better is TT defense than Love? It didn't sound like he was that great before this year so has something changed? Sure he may be better than Love but that may not be saying a whole lot. I'll sit back and listen if someone wants to make a case. I don't really are enough to delve into the numbers.

My understanding is the same as your's, monster...TT is only an average defender, but much better than Love. That's why Blatt generally has him in there at crunch time of close games. The Cavs can actually put a fairly good defensive team out there with Mosgov, TT, James, Shumpert and Irving.

longstrangetrip wrote:I'm not positive about this, but I think I just read about 15 posts analyzing the impact of Love's injury, and not once was the defensive side of the ball mentioned. Even the Tony Kornheiser post didn't mention anything about Love's porous defense. Remember, this is a guy about whom Tyson Chandler scoffed "everyone knows Love don't play defense", and who was benched in the 4th quarter several times in close games. Yes, they may suffer some spacing problems without Love's long-distance shooting, but this is even more of an issue with Smith out for 2 games...after all, Smith shot more threes and with more success than Love.

The Love injury puts me in a tough spot. I was ready to cheer for my favorite Eastern Conference team, the Bulls, and I'm convinced they would have won this series (yes, I know the Bulls still have to finish off the Bucks). But now, I think I may change allegiance and cheer for the Cavs. I actually like James and Irving, and it makes our unloading Love for Wiggins even more one-sided if the Love-less Cavs beat the Bulls. Plus, I'm emotionally invested in my "Love doesn't make teams better" narrative, and a Cavs series win over the Bulls would provide a lot of support for this narrative :) .

I never thought these words would come out of my mouth, but let me give it a shot....Go CAVS!!!!!

Actually Long... I mentioned defense multiple times.

I'm disappointed that you don't read my posts. Obviously.

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:My legit question is how much better is TT defense than Love? It didn't sound like he was that great before this year so has something changed? Sure he may be better than Love but that may not be saying a whole lot. I'll sit back and listen if someone wants to make a case. I don't really are enough to delve into the numbers.

My understanding is the same as your's, monster...TT is only an average defender, but much better than Love. That's why Blatt generally has him in there at crunch time of close games. The Cavs can actually put a fairly good defensive team out there with Mosgov, TT, James, Shumpert and Irving.

Serious question: Has Irving improved defensively this season? I thought his defense (while not D. Lillard-level terrible) was still considered subpar before this season...

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:I'm not positive about this, but I think I just read about 15 posts analyzing the impact of Love's injury, and not once was the defensive side of the ball mentioned. Even the Tony Kornheiser post didn't mention anything about Love's porous defense. Remember, this is a guy about whom Tyson Chandler scoffed "everyone knows Love don't play defense", and who was benched in the 4th quarter several times in close games. Yes, they may suffer some spacing problems without Love's long-distance shooting, but this is even more of an issue with Smith out for 2 games...after all, Smith shot more threes and with more success than Love.

The Love injury puts me in a tough spot. I was ready to cheer for my favorite Eastern Conference team, the Bulls, and I'm convinced they would have won this series (yes, I know the Bulls still have to finish off the Bucks). But now, I think I may change allegiance and cheer for the Cavs. I actually like James and Irving, and it makes our unloading Love for Wiggins even more one-sided if the Love-less Cavs beat the Bulls. Plus, I'm emotionally invested in my "Love doesn't make teams better" narrative, and a Cavs series win over the Bulls would provide a lot of support for this narrative :) .

I never thought these words would come out of my mouth, but let me give it a shot....Go CAVS!!!!!

Actually Long... I mentioned defense multiple times.

I'm disappointed that you don't read my posts. Obviously.

No, I read them, but missed the defensive comments the first time. I just went back and re-read them. There are 2 brief references to TT's defense, but they are buried in 7-8 references to how losing Love hurts their offense. I'm not surprised that Kornheiser didn't mention Love's defense at all...he's never been a very insightful analyst. But we dig into issues deeper on this board than Tony does, and generally get to the real story. I don't disagree that losing Love hurts the Cavs' offense, but I view defense to be as vital as offense...in fact, probably more so come playoff time. The amount of focus on Love's offense without a balanced analysis of his defensive shortcomings seems shortsighted to me.

As for your question about Irving, I hope some of the defensive stat posters weigh in here, because I am only going to report what I see. While he is the weak link on the Cavs defensively (with Smith and Love out), I see a much improved defensive effort in Kyrie this year. There are moments when his effort can definitely be questioned, especially in games that are not close, and I think this has a lot to do with his subpar defensive metrics. But I have also seen him in action defensively in close games where I realize that he has the potential to be an above average defender. It will be interesting to watch him against Rose in the next round.

Cavs aren't champions without Love. It's that simple for me. I think they have little to no chance at beating whoever comes out of the West and right now, I'd argue that Washington has been the best team in the East thus far (playoffs) and poses a big threat to the Cavs. Perhaps the Hawks can turn it around as well. This was a monumental blow to Cleveland.

I'm unsure whether Washington looked that good... or Toronto looked that bad.

I think it's a bit of both.

I think TT's value at the end of games comes more from his offensive rebounding prowess than his defensive upgrade over Love. He can get multiple shot clock resets to close out games where Love is usually out on the 3 point line not in position to rebound. When they play Lebron at the 4 to close out games it is more valuable to have the better offensive rebounder and slightly better defender than another floor spacer. There's no doubt on a whole though they are a better team with Love on the floor versus off. They're 9 points per 100 possessions better with Love on the floor than off.

Camden0916 wrote:Cavs aren't champions without Love. It's that simple for me. I think they have little to no chance at beating whoever comes out of the West and right now, I'd argue that Washington has been the best team in the East thus far (playoffs) and poses a big threat to the Cavs. Perhaps the Hawks can turn it around as well. This was a monumental blow to Cleveland.

I don't think they were with him either. I think the chances of them winning against the Bulls now is 35% and winning in the Conference Finals is now around 50%. But I'd give them less than a 10% chance of winning in the Finals with or without Kevin Love

I'm not sure you guys were watching the Bulls lately, but they would have been steamrolled by the Cavs if healthy. Way too dependent on Rose/Butler offensively, Noah has to guard PFs leaving the paint, Gasol's as soft as ever and their backup PG play has been nonexistent! On paper, they're stacked. In the playoffs, they've been hard to watch. They've lost that defensive identity they're known for having and if you watch their offense, it feels like way too much 1v1 basketball. It's hard to win like that, and that it's why the Bucks have won two games against them.

Camden0916 wrote:I'm not sure you guys were watching the Bulls lately, but they would have been steamrolled by the Cavs if healthy. Way too dependent on Rose/Butler offensively, Noah has to guard PFs leaving the paint, Gasol's as soft as ever and their backup PG play has been nonexistent! On paper, they're stacked. In the playoffs, they've been hard to watch. They've lost that defensive identity they're known for having and if you watch their offense, it feels like way too much 1v1 basketball. It's hard to win like that, and that it's why the Bucks have won two games against them.

I'm cheering for the Bucks but yeah them making that a series probably says more about the Bulls struggling than the Bucks. The Bulls were always a wildcard this year in the east and nothing has changed. Maybe they pull themselves together and brig able to face a Cavs team without Love gives them a chance to keep going. Of course they have to you know like win the series they are playing in first.