Minnesota Sports Forum

Posted: **Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:31 pm**

I know this isn't a popular message here, but if the guys on this board who mock the league's balanced consensus opinion of Love were really that much smarter than all those GM's, they would have their jobs.

Posted: **Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:32 pm**

LST, I'm not looking at this from a MN/CLE perspective. I'm looking at people who are not invested in either team. We've heard plenty of people talk about his value. I've heard quite a few talk about how Love's skills are undervalued. When a team is after a disgruntled superstar they almost always have the most biased opinion. They see blood like sharks in the water trying to get a superstar for 25 cents on the dollar.

As for that poll with GMs, etc. 2 or 3 of them bashed his game in ways that were completely asinine. Knock him for his D, hustle in transition, etc fine, but to sit there & say he has no inside game and is only a shooter? That's laughable.

Melo has been labeled a top 5 player and he plays zero defense either. He's got the advantage of being clutch which is big, but he's not as good at his position in other areas like Love is (passing, rebounding).

Maligned by his first coach? Rambis is an idiot and terrible coach. I thought that was apparent by now. I tend to believe the locker room issues could have some validity, but now Flip all of a sudden doesn't like him? I don't buy it.

Posted: **Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:35 pm**

Wiggins is a fucking superstar and he hasn't logged one NBA minute.

On another note, I'm the CEO of a corporation and I haven't filed a single form in my life.

Interesting how that works.

Posted: **Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:53 pm**

MikeAz wrote:This report says that he Wolves would prefer Klay to Wiggins. I'm not sure I'm buying it though.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/18/report-timberwolves-prefer-klay-thompson-to-andrew-wiggins-in-kevin-love-trade/

I think someone is playing the game ;)

Posted: **Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:10 pm**

Camden wrote:
They would be getting great value for that No. 1 pick, considering he's far from a sure thing and while he has a high ceiling, he could just as easily bottom out and become a better version of Corey Brewer. You trade guys like that plus other unknowns for a star to lock up an NBA trophy 10 times out of 10 in my book.

Waiters' draft class is over. I couldn't care less if he was picked No. 4 or No. 40. I do realize the talent he has, though, which is why I'd like to get him and see if Flip could get the best out of him. His value around the league though isn't that desirable. He's known as a locker room cancer and a chucker, while already being slightly undersized for his position.

The reason the rest of the world is on the fence about Love/Wiggins is because the majority is absolutely clueless as to how good Love is. They think he's just a stat stuffer on a bad team who's never made the playoffs because he's just not that good, which is so far from the truth as you should know. Intelligent basketball minds know his ability, though, and that's what I'm working off of.

This isn't a situation that should be compared to trades in the past. This is different for a couple reasons:

1) LeBron has reached out to Love about playing with him. LeBron gets what LeBron wants.

2) According to NBA rules, salary in a trade has to match or be somewhat close (don't kill me if the wording/length of the rule is off). Cleveland doesn't have other contracts to make this trade work other than a Bennett, Waiters, Varejao or Thompson. Varejao is practically off the table since that's LeBron's buddy. That leaves three former high first round picks with salaries around $5M each. If you're Cleveland, there's not much you can really do except give up several, if not all, of those young players to get this trade to match salary-wise. Even if they sign Wiggins today and wait this out a month, two of those young players + Wiggins will still need to return to Minnesota.

"Personally, I think they can get Love without giving up Waiters and Wiggins. So if they give up both... they "lose" the trade. Make sense?"

And how do they get Love without trading for him? Even if they wiped their roster clean except for Irving and LeBron next summer, they'd still be cutting it close on the cap (in which they should have just made the trade in July). Not to mention Flip would probably trade Love elsewhere (Golden State) before that time so that would difficult some things as well. There is absolutely no way Love lands on the Cavs without them trading for him, and to do that it will take Wiggins ++.

PS: I can't remember the last time a team traded for a star player, won a championship because of that trade, then looked back at the trade as them losing it. The whole goal of building a team is to win a ring. If that trade was the necessary factor in putting them over the top, then it was a grand success and nobody in Cleveland would give a shit about Wiggins/Waiters/Bennett/Thompson being in Minnesota.

Well put. To go further with that first point. Just the other day ESPN had a segment that mentioned how the Wolves actually have underachieved. They said the Wolves should have been a 50 win team last year, but had a lot of bad bounces among other things. We were in A LOT of close games and sure some of that could come down to Love, but IMO that's more about team defense which I put a chunk of that on Martin too.

Lebron wanting him is a nice bit of leverage too, especially when they can't sign him as a FA as you pointed out.

Posted: **Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:16 pm**

alexftbl8181 wrote:I know this isn't a popular message here, but if the guys on this board who mock the league's balanced consensus opinion of Love were really that much smarter than all those GM's, they would have their jobs.

Let me ask you this, if Love's contract wasn't an issue, would you still trade Love for Wiggins? I very much doubt the Wolves would.

Posted: **Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:33 pm**

lipoli390 wrote:
alexftbl8181 wrote:I know this isn't a popular message here, but if the guys on this board who mock the league's balanced consensus opinion of Love were really that much smarter than all those GM's, they would have their jobs.
Let me ask you this, if Love's contract wasn't an issue, would you still trade Love for Wiggins? I very much doubt the Wolves would.

To further that comparison, I don't think the Clippers would trade Blake for Wiggins

Posted: **Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:38 pm**

Cam -- I think you've stated it as well as it can be stated. There is simply no credible intelligent reason for the Cavs to pass on getting Love out of an unwillingness to give up Wiggins. I'll add a couple tidbits of inside information.

First, not surprisingly, the Cavs really want to unload Waiters and have been trying the past year with no takers who would give any worthwhile value for him. Waiters is disliked by his teammates and the front office. He got into a physical altercation with Kyrie in the Target Center locker room last year and Waiters was clearly the instigator. So it is no real "give" on Cleveland's part to include Waiters in the deal. Second, Flip is completely serious about keeping Love rather than accepting a less than optimal deal. I actually think Flip is being too rigid, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that Flip will NOT soften his position. Finally, I can say that Flip will NOT do a deal with the Cavs unless Wiggins is included and will not do a deal with the Warriors unless Klay is included.

None of this is exactly surprising, but I wanted to confirm where Flip is at from an absolutely impeccable source. I'll reveal more later after the trade stuff is all resolved. Bottom line is that any GM or owner who thinks Flip is bluffing or that he'll cave is an idiot. They should have figured this out by now. Clearly none off them would trade the best player at his position at age 25 for the Cleveland package without Wiggins or the Golden State package without Klay. It is the height of stupidity or arrogance to think otherwise.

Posted: **Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:39 pm**

alex, I agree that the Wolves would keep Love if he were ready to sign an extension. But...that's not the situation, and when you're in the Wolves situation, the only way you can win in the deal long-term is if you get a guy like Wiggins and he hits his projections.

Posted: **Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:42 pm**

alexftbl8181 wrote:
lipoli390 wrote:
alexftbl8181 wrote:I know this isn't a popular message here, but if the guys on this board who mock the league's balanced consensus opinion of Love were really that much smarter than all those GM's, they would have their jobs.
Let me ask you this, if Love's contract wasn't an issue, would you still trade Love for Wiggins? I very much doubt the Wolves would.

To further that comparison, I don't think the Clippers would trade Blake for Wiggins

Not sure what you're getting at Alex. I think there is consensus on this Board that trading Wiggins for Love would be an obviously great move for Cleveland. There really isn't a good argument on the other side. That's why you're right in implying that many on this Board would not trade Love for Wiggins if we didn't think it likely that Love will bolt after next season. Yet, there would still be a credible argument for the Wolves to swap Love for Wiggins and another young player or two even if Love were locked up long term because it's unlikely the Wolves will ever be a championship contender with Love as our main max guy. But Love fits perfectly with LeBron and Irving as the #2 guy in that high-powered threesome.

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