Minnesota Sports Forum

Q-was-here wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:Let me remind folks that while Rudy is old compared to the rest of the Wolves roster, he is by no means at the tail end of his career given his position and style of play.

Look no further than Brook Lopez, who turns 35 before the end of the regular season, and is having one of the better seasons of his career playing 31 MPG and starting for the Bucks.

Or how about Al Horford, who at age 36 has been the starting Center for the best team in the NBA and at age 35 competed in the Finals last year?

In my mind, Rudy may actually be the hardest asset to replicate on this roster - even harder than KAT and Ant (for now). You can say things "didn't work" in Utah, but they sure as hell worked better there than anything the Wolves have ever accomplished over a sustained timeframe!

Brook Lopez and Al Horford have hands, post moves, the ability to shoot, and do not force a team to be dictated around them. Also do not cost $40 mil a year.

If you want to move off of KAT, then move off of him and DLo and build around ANT before you empty the coffers for Gobert. Now the idea is to trade KAT to attempt to regain the value lost in the Gobert trade? To build around what, Ant, Gobert, and Jaden? With them due contracts soon, that just means handcuffed by cap again. Gobert is nearly a decade older than Ant and Jaden. Do you look to move Gobert for a loss then? How dumb.

When I said Utah already tried the "modern defensive big with 4 out" I meant it. Conley, Mitchell, Ingles, Bogan, Rudy. That wasn't good enough to go anywhere. 2 smart perimeter defenders there. 4 capable shooters. 1 star creator at guard.

You seem pretty good about complaining and ranting about how dumb and stupid everyone is. We get it. Since your moniker is TheFuture, what do YOU suggest they do for the future? We get that you don't like the past moves or current state.

I don't think you get it. Connelly screwed all the options. Cap, picks, scheme options. Sign Dlo for what he wants or get nothing because the cap will be eaten. Trade Gobert for a loss. Be the laughing stock trading a max franchise player in KAT the first year into his extension. You guys are so delusional on how bad this trade was.

Here I will try:

Fire Connelly, trade DLo, trade Gobert and blame Connelly for being shortsighted and stupid, trade KAT, trade Nowell, extend Reid, extend Rivers, extend Anderson, extend Jmac, build around ANT and hope you don't have retarded decisions moving forward.

With those trades the Wolves might just recoup the value given for Gobert. That is how insane that trade was. The Wolves gave up more for Gobert than Jimmy Butler. They gave up near as much as what AD cost, a 26 year old 2 way superstar. That team had them by the balls because of LeBron too.

Players that can play ball AROUND a star in Edwards. KAT and Gobert are not that. DLO actually is, but depends on the cost.

I think you're exaggerating. You are basically saying the only way to recoup the lost value of the Gobert deal is to trade KAT, DLO, Gobert, and Nowell. Really?

I won't argue about whether the Wolves overpaid for Gobert. I think they did and convinced themselves that he would fit in seamlessly, which obviously hasn't happened. But this idea that they dug a hole for themselves that is hopelessly impossible to climb out of seems overblown.

But you can continue ranting and complaining and telling us all how stupid and delusional the front office is, since it's every fan's right to do so!

No trading those 4 isn't about recouping the value given for Gobert, it is just accepting the restart button, pivoting to build around Ant, and just doing it instead of waiting 2-3 years and losing more value, specifically in Nowell and Dlo.

I bet you couldn't get near the value paid for Gobert for KAT. Which would you choose between the 2?

I don't think the front office will throw in the towel on either one for at least another year, but if I had to choose, I'd trade KAT. And I'd try to trade him for quality, not quantity in terms of a bunch of 1st rounders. I'd want a good 2-way wing or PG for him. I just think what Gobert gives a team is more foundational to sustained winning.

Taking into account Ant, you would choose to trade the 27 year old big who is absolutely lethal offensively from anywhere, a good rebounder, and maybe average defensively before the 30 year old who can't even post up on a guard?

My main point was the reset button though, which you asked me to respond with. Are you going to tell me you would do different? Stand pat, see what happens with Dlo, Reid, Nowell?

Yes, I would trade KAT over Gobert. And no, KAT is not average defensively. He's below average and has been nearly every season he's played. Also, Gobert's contract gets cheaper on a relative basis as the cap goes up compared to KAT's contract.

I wouldn't completely hit the reset button. I'd give this whole thing more time. I'd probably move on from DLO this offseason and might even bring in a different head coach. But I wouldn't break up the KAT-Gobert-Ant trio just yet.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:Let me remind folks that while Rudy is old compared to the rest of the Wolves roster, he is by no means at the tail end of his career given his position and style of play.

Look no further than Brook Lopez, who turns 35 before the end of the regular season, and is having one of the better seasons of his career playing 31 MPG and starting for the Bucks.

Or how about Al Horford, who at age 36 has been the starting Center for the best team in the NBA and at age 35 competed in the Finals last year?

In my mind, Rudy may actually be the hardest asset to replicate on this roster - even harder than KAT and Ant (for now). You can say things "didn't work" in Utah, but they sure as hell worked better there than anything the Wolves have ever accomplished over a sustained timeframe!

Brook Lopez and Al Horford have hands, post moves, the ability to shoot, and do not force a team to be dictated around them. Also do not cost $40 mil a year.

If you want to move off of KAT, then move off of him and DLo and build around ANT before you empty the coffers for Gobert. Now the idea is to trade KAT to attempt to regain the value lost in the Gobert trade? To build around what, Ant, Gobert, and Jaden? With them due contracts soon, that just means handcuffed by cap again. Gobert is nearly a decade older than Ant and Jaden. Do you look to move Gobert for a loss then? How dumb.

When I said Utah already tried the "modern defensive big with 4 out" I meant it. Conley, Mitchell, Ingles, Bogan, Rudy. That wasn't good enough to go anywhere. 2 smart perimeter defenders there. 4 capable shooters. 1 star creator at guard.

You seem pretty good about complaining and ranting about how dumb and stupid everyone is. We get it. Since your moniker is TheFuture, what do YOU suggest they do for the future? We get that you don't like the past moves or current state.

I don't think you get it. Connelly screwed all the options. Cap, picks, scheme options. Sign Dlo for what he wants or get nothing because the cap will be eaten. Trade Gobert for a loss. Be the laughing stock trading a max franchise player in KAT the first year into his extension. You guys are so delusional on how bad this trade was.

Here I will try:

Fire Connelly, trade DLo, trade Gobert and blame Connelly for being shortsighted and stupid, trade KAT, trade Nowell, extend Reid, extend Rivers, extend Anderson, extend Jmac, build around ANT and hope you don't have retarded decisions moving forward.

With those trades the Wolves might just recoup the value given for Gobert. That is how insane that trade was. The Wolves gave up more for Gobert than Jimmy Butler. They gave up near as much as what AD cost, a 26 year old 2 way superstar. That team had them by the balls because of LeBron too.

Players that can play ball AROUND a star in Edwards. KAT and Gobert are not that. DLO actually is, but depends on the cost.

I think you're exaggerating. You are basically saying the only way to recoup the lost value of the Gobert deal is to trade KAT, DLO, Gobert, and Nowell. Really?

I won't argue about whether the Wolves overpaid for Gobert. I think they did and convinced themselves that he would fit in seamlessly, which obviously hasn't happened. But this idea that they dug a hole for themselves that is hopelessly impossible to climb out of seems overblown.

But you can continue ranting and complaining and telling us all how stupid and delusional the front office is, since it's every fan's right to do so!

No trading those 4 isn't about recouping the value given for Gobert, it is just accepting the restart button, pivoting to build around Ant, and just doing it instead of waiting 2-3 years and losing more value, specifically in Nowell and Dlo.

I bet you couldn't get near the value paid for Gobert for KAT. Which would you choose between the 2?

I don't think the front office will throw in the towel on either one for at least another year, but if I had to choose, I'd trade KAT. And I'd try to trade him for quality, not quantity in terms of a bunch of 1st rounders. I'd want a good 2-way wing or PG for him. I just think what Gobert gives a team is more foundational to sustained winning.

Taking into account Ant, you would choose to trade the 27 year old big who is absolutely lethal offensively from anywhere, a good rebounder, and maybe average defensively before the 30 year old who can't even post up on a guard?

My main point was the reset button though, which you asked me to respond with. Are you going to tell me you would do different? Stand pat, see what happens with Dlo, Reid, Nowell?

Yes, I would trade KAT over Gobert. And no, KAT is not average defensively. He's below average and has been nearly every season he's played. Also, Gobert's contract gets cheaper on a relative basis as the cap goes up compared to KAT's contract.

I wouldn't completely hit the reset button. I'd give this whole thing more time. I'd probably move on from DLO this offseason and might even bring in a different head coach. But I wouldn't break up the KAT-Gobert-Ant trio just yet.

The problem KAT has consistently had for his entire career at the 5 is that he fouls too much. Which is not good defensively (foul shots are high percentage!) but it also has consistently over the years hampered him from staying on the floor or being able to contest shots (without fouling) because he can't.

He's had multiple years leading the NBA in fouls. Not good. Teams know this and attack him on defense getting him in foul trouble. Now he can't stay on the floor and play offense (where he has also fouled too much as well!).

lipoli390 wrote:Q - Future is just pissed and understandably so. I'm also pissed. As a season ticket holder since 2000 I've put a lot of money as well as emotion into this team over the years as one regime after another has made multiple bone-headed moves that were recognized at the time as bone-headed without the benefit of hindsight. After the most successful Wolves season in nearly 20 years, Connelly appears to have done the same. I thought so at the time and so did the vast majority of NBA analysts around country. Nothing we've seen since suggests otherwise.

We entered last season with a very young team. That team got better as the season wore on, ending up 10 games over .500 and matched against the 2nd-best team in the West. I was at last season's play-in game against the Clippers and all the home playoff games against Memphis - a series the Wolves could have easily won. The feeling in the arena was electric - exactly what I remembered feeling back in 2004. And it wasn't just making the playoffs and nearly defeating the West's 2nd best team, it was the way the team played - an exciting brand of high-energy, share the ball basketball. Winning basketball. The team was still young and building.

Flash forward to this past summer. The Wolves hired Tim Connelly, a PBO known and respected for his draft acumen, not his deal-making. In fact, TC himself said that his strength is drafting and evaluating young talent and not deal-making. Yet, shortly after arriving and saying he wanted to "stay out of the way and not screw it up," he made a major roster-changing deal that you correctly described as an overpay by a front office that convinced themselves it would fit seamlessly - exemplifying the danger of group think and the peril of thinking your group is smarter than just about everyone else. The end result, so far, is what some of us here and most experts around the League thought it would be. An overpay? Absolutely. But also a bad deal by just about any measure. If nothing else, it required a reboot to adjust to a very different style of play on both ends and that has prevented the Wolves from picking up where they left off late last season. As a result, the Wolves missed a golden opportunity to pick up wins during the early weaker part of the schedule.

Bottom line is that TC did exactly what he said he would not do. Instead of staying out of the way, he asserted himself himself enormously with a highly disruptive trade. That trade, including the overpay aspect of it, has in fact put the Wolves in a hole they should not be in. Can the Wolves dig out of this hole? Yes, I believe they can and I don't think it will be as problematic as Future believes it will be. But it's a hole this team should NOT be in. And it's a hole dug by yet another front office executive who couldn't help himself, who didn't stay true to his word and who for some bizarre reason made a huge signature move that he is on record acknowledging is the sort of move that's outside his wheelhouse.

That's a lot to be pissed about. Nevertheless, as I've mentioned before, I'm moving beyond the anger stage to acceptance (and depression). I give Future credit for staying angry. It's probably better than being depressed and apathetic. It's also probably better than remaining stuck in denial as some are.

I just hope TC's not in denial. My sense is that he's not. I think he's concerned about what's been happening, while still hoping things turn around and start working as he envisioned. Admittedly, things might turn around. Ultimately, I don't think Connelly will be shy about making corrective moves and I don't sense he has a huge ego that will stop him from making necessary moves that draw attention to his past mistakes, which is why i think he'd consider moving Gobert if the deal makes sense. I still give TC high marks for finding young talent (Murray, Jokic, etc. with Denver; Minott, Kessler, Garza so far with the Wolves). So as pissed as I am at TC for what he did last summer, I still have faith that he'll get this franchise out of the hole he put them in. Unfortunately, it might take a few years.

TheFuture wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Q - Future is just pissed and understandably so. I'm also pissed. As a season ticket holder since 2000 I've put a lot of money as well as emotion into this team over the years as one regime after another has made multiple bone-headed moves that were recognized at the time as bone-headed without the benefit of hindsight. After the most successful Wolves season in nearly 20 years, Connelly appears to have done the same. I thought so at the time and so did the vast majority of NBA analysts around country. Nothing we've seen since suggests otherwise.

We entered last season with a very young team. That team got better as the season wore on, ending up 10 games over .500 and matched against the 2nd-best team in the West. I was at last season's play-in game against the Clippers and all the home playoff games against Memphis - a series the Wolves could have easily won. The feeling in the arena was electric - exactly what I remembered feeling back in 2004. And it wasn't just making the playoffs and nearly defeating the West's 2nd best team, it was the way the team played - an exciting brand of high-energy, share the ball basketball. Winning basketball. The team was still young and building.

Flash forward to this past summer. The Wolves hired Tim Connelly, a PBO known and respected for his draft acumen, not his deal-making. In fact, TC himself said that his strength is drafting and evaluating young talent and not deal-making. Yet, shortly after arriving and saying he wanted to "stay out of the way and not screw it up," he made a major roster-changing deal that you correctly described as an overpay by a front office that convinced themselves it would fit seamlessly - exemplifying the danger of group think and the peril of thinking your group is smarter than just about everyone else. The end result, so far, is what some of us here and most experts around the League thought it would be. An overpay? Absolutely. But also a bad deal by just about any measure. If nothing else, it required a reboot to adjust to a very different style of play on both ends and that has prevented the Wolves from picking up where they left off late last season. As a result, the Wolves missed a golden opportunity to pick up wins during the early weaker part of the schedule.

Bottom line is that TC did exactly what he said he would not do. Instead of staying out of the way, he asserted himself himself enormously with a highly disruptive trade. That trade, including the overpay aspect of it, has in fact put the Wolves in a hole they should not be in. Can the Wolves dig out of this hole? Yes, I believe they can and I don't think it will be as problematic as Future believes it will be. But it's a hole this team should NOT be in. And it's a hole dug by yet another front office executive who couldn't help himself, who didn't stay true to his word and who for some bizarre reason made a huge signature move that he is on record acknowledging is the sort of move that's outside his wheelhouse.

That's a lot to be pissed about. Nevertheless, as I've mentioned before, I'm moving beyond the anger stage to acceptance (and depression). I give Future credit for staying angry. It's probably better than being depressed and apathetic. It's also probably better than remaining stuck in denial as some are.

I just hope TC's not in denial. My sense is that he's not. I think he's concerned about what's been happening, while still hoping things turn around and start working as he envisioned. Admittedly, things might turn around. Ultimately, I don't think Connelly will be shy about making corrective moves and I don't sense he has a huge ego that will stop him from making necessary moves that draw attention to his past mistakes, which is why i think he'd consider moving Gobert if the deal makes sense. I still give TC high marks for finding young talent (Murray, Jokic, etc. with Denver; Minott, Kessler, Garza so far with the Wolves). So as pissed as I am at TC for what he did last summer, I still have faith that he'll get this franchise out of the hole he put them in. Unfortunately, it might take a few years.

Thanks for the credit. I am more annoyed than anything. Can we not simply build off of good before attempting something similar to a blow-up. We traded LaVine and a pick for Jimmy Butler. Hated that then,, still do, but it isn't even close to the trade that was recently made. We traded half our team and all of our future for Rudy Gobert. Jimmy can fit in.. Rudy cannot.

How do you decide on DLO, Reid, Nowell, Jmac, Rivers, Anderson moving forward? When 80 mil is going to 2 centers.. and to those who can be honest, KAT cannot defend as a PF in today's game. He is simply not agile enough.

Does anyone realize how devastating this team could be if you paired KAT with another big who can shoot and rebound. Imagine Ant having free reign to the rim with 4 kick out options.

Think Mobely was off the books for 5 first rounders and half a team?

Yet, the trade made was for another clunky big who cannot do anything offensively for himself. Hell, even defensively.

Any corrective move is going to come as a beg. That fucking guy doesn't care. He has 40 mil or so in his pocket.


I think you're stupid if you are not pissed off. You were satiated last year with a gritty team. A team that had every chance to advance. The ultimate decision is to overhaul the front office, the team, and the future?