Minnesota Sports Forum

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:It's not laughable to criticize a guy who let his man go 8/8 for 20 points at one point in the game. 4 blocks doesn't cover that up. 33 points is great. Doesn't look as great when you give 20 of them back to a guy who would normally be scoring 10-12. KAT deserves credit for stepping up in the 4th quarter, but it makes you realize how much easier these games would be if he could do that for 4 quarters. The more times his defense is completely absolved because of his offense, the less likely he'll care to fix it.

It's OK to criticize a player, even if he has a great night. But the level of negativity did make me laugh -- hence it was laughable to me. KAT's 33 points, 19 rebounds, 4 blocks and a +17 for the night (highest among the Wolves players) makes the level of criticism aimed at KAT last night look silly to me. I got a special kick out of Drew's post at the end of the game about KAT being oblivious about how to box out and giving Adams too many rebounds in the face of KAT's 19 boards and the fact that Adams had 8 boards, which is slightly under his average so far this season. KAT has frustrating lapses defensively at times, which is really all Drew was getting at. But obviously KAT did a lot of boxing out and actually dominated Adams on the boards. That's what made me laugh.

I hadn't checked the boxscore and didn't realize how many boards KAT had, so that's admittedly my bad. But I stand by my general point that KAT still failed to control Adams down low defensively as well as he should have. Part of it really is not holding position very well against him, but after skimming through the game again on League Pass, what I noticed is that Adams most often beat KAT when KAT was watching the ball handler and anticipating or reacting to a pick. The last couple games, the major problem I saw was that KAT wasn't showing at all on the pick, basically just letting the ball handler drive the lane. Last night, it's like he was aware he needed to show more, but hesitated, and then got caught between committing to stopping the ball handler and staying with Adams, and that's when the ball handler often found Adams open or successfully drove around KAT. You can see this happen a few times in the highlights, particularly in the second half.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmvXsps12hw

Don't get me wrong, these highlights also hammer home how skilled Towns is at scoring, particularly off the dribble. And there's no way anybody is going to stop all of these plays. Westbrook or George and Adams in a pick and roll is hard to stop. But I think it's fair to expect better defense from him on more than a couple of these plays. He's got to commit. Show hard and stop the ball handler and prevent him from hitting the rolling big, or stick with the big and make the ball handler finish in traffic at the rim. But getting caught in the middle just gives the opponents too many opportunities to score, particularly by hitting the rolling big.

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:It's not laughable to criticize a guy who let his man go 8/8 for 20 points at one point in the game. 4 blocks doesn't cover that up. 33 points is great. Doesn't look as great when you give 20 of them back to a guy who would normally be scoring 10-12. KAT deserves credit for stepping up in the 4th quarter, but it makes you realize how much easier these games would be if he could do that for 4 quarters. The more times his defense is completely absolved because of his offense, the less likely he'll care to fix it.

It's OK to criticize a player, even if he has a great night. But the level of negativity did make me laugh -- hence it was laughable to me. KAT's 33 points, 19 rebounds, 4 blocks and a +17 for the night (highest among the Wolves players) makes the level of criticism aimed at KAT last night look silly to me. I got a special kick out of Drew's post at the end of the game about KAT being oblivious about how to box out and giving Adams too many rebounds in the face of KAT's 19 boards and the fact that Adams had 8 boards, which is slightly under his average so far this season. KAT has frustrating lapses defensively at times, which is really all Drew was getting at. But obviously KAT did a lot of boxing out and actually dominated Adams on the boards. That's what made me laugh.

I hadn't checked the boxscore and didn't realize how many boards KAT had, so that's admittedly my bad. But I stand by my general point that KAT still failed to control Adams down low defensively as well as he should have. Part of it really is not holding position very well against him, but after skimming through the game again on League Pass, what I noticed is that Adams most often beat KAT when KAT was watching the ball handler and anticipating or reacting to a pick. The last couple games, the major problem I saw was that KAT wasn't showing at all on the pick, basically just letting the ball handler drive the lane. Last night, it's like he was aware he needed to show more, but hesitated, and then got caught between committing to stopping the ball handler and staying with Adams, and that's when the ball handler often found Adams open or successfully drove around KAT. You can see this happen a few times in the highlights, particularly in the second half.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmvXsps12hw

Don't get me wrong, these highlights also hammer home how skilled Towns is at scoring, particularly off the dribble. And there's no way anybody is going to stop all of these plays. Westbrook or George and Adams in a pick and roll is hard to stop. But I think it's fair to expect better defense from him on more than a couple of these plays. He's got to commit. Show hard and stop the ball handler and prevent him from hitting the rolling big, or stick with the big and make the ball handler finish in traffic at the rim. But getting caught in the middle just gives the opponents too many opportunities to score, particularly by hitting the rolling big.

Drew - Actually, I think your analysis of KAT's defense is spot on. You nailed it with your observation about him watching the ball handler and about how he hesitated last night, getting caught between the ball handler and Adams. The jogging back references are, in my view, grossly overstated, especially when you consider that he's usually under the rim fighting for rebounds on the offensive end. (Although he has to stop arguing with the officials). KAT's defensive issues seem to be mental. He looks as if, like so many young AAU types, KAT just hasn't learned how to play defense. He has a lot of pride and is hyper competitive. So I have no doubt he'll learn, especially with Butler in his ear. Butler called out his teammates for too much arguing with the refs, but obviously that criticism was aimed largely at KAT. :)

As I recall, KAT's still 21 years old. And it's important to keep in mind, that unlike Wiggins, KAT consistently brings it and produces not just scoring but rebounding as well. He doesn't have 7 point games, he doesn't miss half his free throws, etc. That's not a criticism of Wiggins because I like what we're seeing from Andrew so far this season defensively and as a rebounder, but it's just some perspective when evaluating KAT. And you notice live more than on TV just how hard KAT works every single possession on both ends, getting grabbed, pushed and pounded by the League's biggest, strongest players. I think the tenor of the criticism of KAT would changes substantially if everyone on this board had the chance to see this home games live on a regular basis.

I get to see plenty of games live, but see most games on TV. Part of the reason Kat has a problem getting back on defense is because he pursues every offensive rebound, even when it's illadvised to do so. Jim Pete was all over this point the other night.

I personally think Kat hunts for stats more then the average player. Example of this was last year when he was going for the wolves rebound record, he about injured every player on his own team knocking them over for boards, it was comical.

He had a chance to be a great great player no question. There are things that annoy me with his game, the above that I mentioned and then his defense.

Lip, it was encouraging for me to hear his pre game interactions with his teammates, I rarely see him encourage teammates or interact in a positive manner on the court. I look for those things when I'm at the games also.

KiwiMatt wrote:Just watch the difference between the picks Steven Adam sets and then the picks KAT sets.

Towns was much better tonight than he has been but yep.

kekgeek1 wrote:

KiwiMatt wrote:George's Hunt getting game time!

Played pretty decent D. Hard guard on Melo.

Interesting that Thibs subbed him in and put him on Melo. I thought he was coming in to guard Westbrook and have Butler on Melo. Nope. Either way...shades of when Thibs put Butler in on Melo against the Knicks all those years ago??? :) regardless MGH certainly didn't embarrass himself out there.

kekgeek1 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:I'm worried about Wiggins free throws. It is mostly mental and when it goes it is hard to get it back

I've noticed he is standing about 5-6 inches behind the free throw line. I'm sorry but that's fucked up. There is a small dot immediately behind the free throw line at the midpoint. Put your right big toe on that dot and everything from your toe to your knee to your right hip to your elbow to your wrist and release point should be in line with that dot. You should be able to take the right/left error out of your shot by doing that and then its just a matter of repetition to get the distance grooved. And don't make the shot any longer than you have to.

Simple basics of basketball. Something the young guys still struggle.

Good info Cool.

My guess is he worked so much on his 3 point shot it's messing with his FTs. I'll take the 3 point shooting and I feel pretty confident Wiggins will find his stroke eventually. Remember when Rubio struggled early last year? He went on to shoot a career high.

Duke13 wrote:We could use a reserve like Heustis

That dude looks massive. DX has him with 6'6.5" without shoes and like a 7' wingspan. He makes Butler and Bazz look like guards. Anthony Brown has that kind of length but not as athletic but in theory he can shoot. Maybe MGH with be that gritty defender type.

KiwiMatt wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:Announcers saying Towns is having a whale of a defensive game because he has 4 blocks is pissing me off. He got torched by Adams in the 3rd. That's the kind of praise that will go to his head and make it seem ok that he is fundamentally a terrible defender.

I'm sure Thibs will assure him otherwise lol

He has made some plays on that end. He hasn't been good but he has done some good things at least and he in general is playing hard and going after the boards.

TheSP wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

TheSP wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:Woo. Nice W.

Everyone, take a step off the ledge

Off, or away?

Haha. Away. Just a little difference there

The difference in outcomes is significant though! :)

Lol

Duke13 wrote:I get to see plenty of games live, but see most games on TV. Part of the reason Kat has a problem getting back on defense is because he pursues every offensive rebound, even when it's illadvised to do so. Jim Pete was all over this point the other night.

I personally think Kat hunts for stats more then the average player. Example of this was last year when he was going for the wolves rebound record, he about injured every player on his own team knocking them over for boards, it was comical.

He had a chance to be a great great player no question. There are things that annoy me with his game, the above that I mentioned and then his defense.

Lip, it was encouraging for me to hear his pre game interactions with his teammates, I rarely see him encourage teammates or interact in a positive manner on the court. I look for those things when I'm at the games also.

Absolutely agree that the main reason KAT doesn't get back the way he should on a regular basis is his relentless pursuit of every offensive rebound even when illadvised. But I don't think he's motivated by stats. I think he's driven by his competitiveness. He is a typical young talented modern-day NBA player raised through the AAU process in the sense that he has a lot to learn about how to play solid fundamental basketball. But the good news is that he's hyper-competitive as well as extremely skilled. I have no doubt he'll learn to play defense, but it will be a process. I'm glad we have Jimmy to help with the teaching process.