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http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11232868/cleveland-cavaliers-minnesota-timberwolves-talking-trade-involving-kevin-love-andrew-wiggins-anthony-bennett

I'm gonna trust Flip doesn't get too greedy. He's been right on so far

alexftbl8181 wrote:http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11232868/cleveland-cavaliers-minnesota-timberwolves-talking-trade-involving-kevin-love-andrew-wiggins-anthony-bennett

I'm gonna trust Flip doesn't get too greedy. He's been right on so far

I too will trust Flip on this. He's done well so far. But I still have this nagging fear that he is doing exactly what he did in his head coach hiring process -- i.e., deliberately setting the bar too high so that it looks like he tried but has to "settle" for what he wanted at the outset. I have no doubt Flip wanted to be head coach. And I suspect he really wants to keep Love. Or he would greatly prefer a Klay Thompson deal. I hope I'm wrong.

If the report is true that the Cavs have offered Wiggins and Bennett plus a first round pick, then Flip should grab it and not look back. I'd insist on the Miami pick rather than the Cavs' own pick and I would think the Cavs would agree.

lipoli390 wrote:

alexftbl8181 wrote:http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11232868/cleveland-cavaliers-minnesota-timberwolves-talking-trade-involving-kevin-love-andrew-wiggins-anthony-bennett

I'm gonna trust Flip doesn't get too greedy. He's been right on so far

I too will trust Flip on this. He's done well so far. But I still have this nagging fear that he is doing exactly what he did in his head coach hiring process -- i.e., deliberately setting the bar too high so that it looks like he tried but has to "settle" for what he wanted at the outset. I have no doubt Flip wanted to be head coach. And I suspect he really wants to keep Love. Or he would greatly prefer a Klay Thompson deal. I hope I'm wrong.

If the report is true that the Cavs have offered Wiggins and Bennett plus a first round pick, then Flip should grab it and not look back. I'd insist on the Miami pick rather than the Cavs' own pick and I would think the Cavs would agree.

Well there's gotta be something else involved in that trade since the salary doesn't work. Wish we knew what the other pieces were in that proposal. He should be able to get 1 more asset at least. Personally I'd be all over a Wiggins, Thompson, Waiters, 1st deal. Or maybe they need to bring in a 3rd team to unload Waiters & another piece or 2 from the Wolves.

Based on the advanced statistics, the Cavaliers have the opportunity to add the 2nd and 3rd most valuable players in the entire NBA in the same off-season. Notice I didn't say best, I said most valuable. Kevin Love is 3rd in the entire NBA in WAR and Value added. Yes those stats weigh heavily on offense, but that doesn't change the fact that he was 3rd in the entire league in those categories. Love over Thompson in the starting lineup equals 17 more wins immediately based on their wins above replacement differential. That's how much better Love is than Thompson. Lebron over Deng is 22 wins better instantly. That's almost an average of 20 more wins from 2 guys alone. That makes Cleveland a 53 win team which would have been 3rd to Indiana and Miami last year and both those teams got worse this offseason. That is crazy to think they are holding up that potential for a rookie. On average there are only 2-4 players worth more than 20 wins over a replacement level player per year and they have an opportunity to add 50% of the players who managed that feat from last year.

With Love committing to Cleveland long-term with Lebron in the fold, this does become a no-brainer and it isn't close. Love and Lebron are in the 99th percentile of the league already. Wiggins is years away and is no guarantee to come close to that 99th percentile caliber of player. This trade is such a win-win for both franchises that I am legitimately angry that it hasn't been made yet. The fact is that Love is so good offensively that he can be a net zero on defense (which he is based on +/- numbers) and be a top 5 player in this league. That is ridiculously good. Wiggins has the potential to be top 5. The stats say Love is top 5. That's a win-win trade for both franchises which is why this deal should be done already. If Love committed to re-sign with MN then there is no chance I trade him because he is a player you just can't replace in this league. Nobody can do what he can do and do it as well as him. The only reason this deal is even acceptable in my mind is because I know Love won't re-sign with us next offseason. Otherwise I'd keep trying to rebuild around him until we get it right because he is the one guy on the current roster who simply can't be replaced by anybody. Wiggins has the promise to be a level replacement, but even that is just promise and not a guarantee. Love is top 5 in my mind and that means even a top 10 Wiggins isn't a level replacement.

The big issue right now is salary. Cleveland needs to somehow trade back close to $14.5M.

Bennett makes $5.3M
Thompson makes $4.0M
Waiters makes $3.9M

Think of it if you were Cleveland, you get Love and our 2nd round picks (Robinson and Gentile) and trade back to us Wiggins, Bennett, Thompson, and Waiters. That's a tough pill to swallow, because you still need to gather some bench talent (it's a long season).

My only question surrounding this report is that Wiggins and Bennett alone would fail to comply with the CBA's salary match requirement. Either Waiters or Thompson would have to be included as well. The only alternative would be a 30-day delay where Wiggins would first sign with the Cavs. I think that Wiggins salary paired with Bennett's and a throw in like Felix would be sufficient.

The bench talent is already lining up to take the minimum to play on that super team. Mike Miller is saying he is going to sign there. Ray Allen would be there shortly after. Depth won't be an issue for that team.

khans2k5 wrote:The bench talent is already lining up to take the minimum to play on that super team. Mike Miller is saying he is going to sign there. Ray Allen would be there shortly after. Depth won't be an issue for that team.

Correct, Kahns. You beat me to it. I'll add that Thompson and Bennett would be enough to match salaries with a throw-in like Felix included.

TheGrey08 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

alexftbl8181 wrote:http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11232868/cleveland-cavaliers-minnesota-timberwolves-talking-trade-involving-kevin-love-andrew-wiggins-anthony-bennett

I'm gonna trust Flip doesn't get too greedy. He's been right on so far

I too will trust Flip on this. He's done well so far. But I still have this nagging fear that he is doing exactly what he did in his head coach hiring process -- i.e., deliberately setting the bar too high so that it looks like he tried but has to "settle" for what he wanted at the outset. I have no doubt Flip wanted to be head coach. And I suspect he really wants to keep Love. Or he would greatly prefer a Klay Thompson deal. I hope I'm wrong.

If the report is true that the Cavs have offered Wiggins and Bennett plus a first round pick, then Flip should grab it and not look back. I'd insist on the Miami pick rather than the Cavs' own pick and I would think the Cavs would agree.

Well there's gotta be something else involved in that trade since the salary doesn't work. Wish we knew what the other pieces were in that proposal. He should be able to get 1 more asset at least. Personally I'd be all over a Wiggins, Thompson, Waiters, 1st deal. Or maybe they need to bring in a 3rd team to unload Waiters & another piece or 2 from the Wolves.

Grey -- I think you're right that there are some other pieces or complexities being discussed that haven't been disclosed. Your speculation that Flip may be trying to involve a third team has merit. Flip may see this as his one shot at unloading some contracts and that might require a third team. For example, perhaps a third team could come in and take both Bennett and Martin, with Waiters, Thompson and Wiggins going to the Wolves. Maybe Brewer goes to the Cavs along with Love and GRIII. I haven't run any scenarios through the trade checker, but there are probably some scenarios that would work.

lipoli390 wrote:
Grey -- I think you're right that there are some other pieces or complexities being discussed that haven't been disclosed. Your speculation that Flip may be trying to involve a third team has merit. Flip may see this as his one shot at unloading some contracts and that might require a third team. For example, perhaps a third team could come in and take both Bennett and Martin, with Waiters, Thompson and Wiggins going to the Wolves. Maybe Brewer goes to the Cavs along with Love and GRIII. I haven't run any scenarios through the trade checker, but there are probably some scenarios that would work.

Worst case the Cavs end up giving the Wolves a 1st and then also giving a 3rd team a 1st in order to unload salary. Where's Philly's GM at? rofl