Minnesota Sports Forum

Jason since you asked I prefer DX for a few reasons.

1. Im pretty certain their mock drafts have been the most accurate right before the draft.

2. They scout players like they are a NBA franchise. They have dudes all over the place and are obviously well connected to people who work with NBA teams. I'm not saying NBADRAFT doesn't do these things but DX is almost over the top.

3. Articles, video break down, stats, measurement etc. there isn't much they didn't have when you go to a player's page.

I think NBA Draft.net has clearly stepped up their game (and DX has as week there is massive demand for this stuff) and it's great they are there because I do like to see more than just one of these places thoughts on players especially now that DX is not independent anymore since they joined up with Yahoo (whatever Yahoo is). For some it's hard to shake the old rep NBADRAFT had where it seemed more like some prett knowledgeable fans kept up the site and while it was good if that's what it was it wasn't nearly the site DX was. Both are worth checking out but DX has more info and their more accurate mock drafts seem significant to me. Keep in mind too these mock drafts are at least to some extent are based on what these guys think NBA franchises think about these players. I would say the closer the draft comes the more that percentage of how they rank them by what they think NBA franchises value this guys goes up.

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:http://www.startribune.com/bentil-s-defense-catches-wolves-eye/379293841/

I found this morning's article in the Strib about Ben Bentil to be interesting for several reasons. First of all, I didn't know much about him before reading this article, but he sounds like a very good prospect. And the fact that a PF with an NBA-ready body who averaged 21 and 8 on 46% shooting, and is a plus defender with 3-point range, is slated to go late in the first round at best, tells me a lot about the depth of this draft. Combine that depth with the disagreement among us here about the quality of the players at the top of the lottery, and trading pick 4-7 for a couple later first rounders seems like a prudent move.

I also found it intriguing that Zgoda focused on this one recruit, and that Thibs also spent some time with him. I like Thibs work ethic and thoroughness in approaching this draft, and while he may just be keeping his options open, interviewing a lower-tier candidate like Bentil may signal that he is leaning toward trading our pick.

I'm not sure I should read into anything of Thibs or any guy leading an NBA franchise working with meeting working out or whatever prospects at every level of the draft pool other than they are doing their job. If they aren't doing it I have a real problem with that. I think Flip (and other basketball people) have said part of this draft process is doing homework for maybe making a move or bringing in a guy in FA or a trade or whatever. Do as much homework on a guy as you possibly can when you can. Sure Thibs and the Wolves should get credit for doing this due dillegence but Like I said it's their job. I hope Thibs and Layden are more aggressive finding ways to add young talent to the roster in anyway possible than we have seen the last few years when it seems like too often the Wolves were too hesitant to just add a young player even if it meant having a really young roster. Get that damn D-league going, pick more international stash guys, take another young player or 2 if you really like him and trust your coaching staff to develop them.

To Thibs credit if he really did like Draymond Green and Dieng you wonder if he will try and make a move to add a pick for another young player in the 2nd round or something like that. It seems possible going into the draft Glen has his blank checks ready instead of polishing up his piggy bank.

The thing I find interesting, monster, is how often this Bentil guy's name keeps popping up. He was at Mayo Square last week working out for the Wolves, Thibs and others interviewed him again yesterday, and JZ writes an article about him today...lots of activity swirling around a guy projected to be a second rounder. The fact that Thibs and Co. seem to be spending more time with non-lottery guys than they are with the guys we are talking about is what makes me think they are seriously considering either trading down or trading for a second rounder.

monsterpile wrote:Jason since you asked I prefer DX for a few reasons.

1. Im pretty certain their mock drafts have been the most accurate right before the draft.

2. They scout players like they are a NBA franchise. They have dudes all over the place and are obviously well connected to people who work with NBA teams. I'm not saying NBADRAFT doesn't do these things but DX is almost over the top.

3. Articles, video break down, stats, measurement etc. there isn't much they didn't have when you go to a player's page.

I think NBA Draft.net has clearly stepped up their game (and DX has as week there is massive demand for this stuff) and it's great they are there because I do like to see more than just one of these places thoughts on players especially now that DX is not independent anymore since they joined up with Yahoo (whatever Yahoo is). For some it's hard to shake the old rep NBADRAFT had where it seemed more like some prett knowledgeable fans kept up the site and while it was good if that's what it was it wasn't nearly the site DX was. Both are worth checking out but DX has more info and their more accurate mock drafts seem significant to me. Keep in mind too these mock drafts are at least to some extent are based on what these guys think NBA franchises think about these players. I would say the closer the draft comes the more that percentage of how they rank them by what they think NBA franchises value this guys goes up.

Good to know, and maybe I'm being too hard on them because they aren't may favorite, but I just think they are way off on Sabonnis.

I want to also respond here to something you said earlier. Too me, it is not a transcendent draft, and of all the question marks, Poeltl and Hield are the biggest. Poeltl had a bad tournament, and if you go through their opponents from this past season, they real didn't face another true 5 until they met Gonzaga (Washington had two good posts, but they both project as 4's in the NBA). Don't get me wrong. He wouldn't be expected to carry the load playing next to KAT, but I would just like to see a true 5 there. Are far as Hield, when he stands next to teammates and/or opponents, he just looks small. Maybe if he was projected as a 1, but isn't everybody projecting him as a 2?

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Jason since you asked I prefer DX for a few reasons.

1. Im pretty certain their mock drafts have been the most accurate right before the draft.

2. They scout players like they are a NBA franchise. They have dudes all over the place and are obviously well connected to people who work with NBA teams. I'm not saying NBADRAFT doesn't do these things but DX is almost over the top.

3. Articles, video break down, stats, measurement etc. there isn't much they didn't have when you go to a player's page.

I think NBA Draft.net has clearly stepped up their game (and DX has as week there is massive demand for this stuff) and it's great they are there because I do like to see more than just one of these places thoughts on players especially now that DX is not independent anymore since they joined up with Yahoo (whatever Yahoo is). For some it's hard to shake the old rep NBADRAFT had where it seemed more like some prett knowledgeable fans kept up the site and while it was good if that's what it was it wasn't nearly the site DX was. Both are worth checking out but DX has more info and their more accurate mock drafts seem significant to me. Keep in mind too these mock drafts are at least to some extent are based on what these guys think NBA franchises think about these players. I would say the closer the draft comes the more that percentage of how they rank them by what they think NBA franchises value this guys goes up.

Good to know, and maybe I'm being too hard on them because they aren't may favorite, but I just think they are way off on Sabonnis.

I want to also respond here to something you said earlier. Too me, it is not a transcendent draft, and of all the question marks, Poeltl and Hield are the biggest. Poeltl had a bad tournament, and if you go through their opponents from this past season, they real didn't face another true 5 until they met Gonzaga (Washington had two good posts, but they both project as 4's in the NBA). Don't get me wrong. He wouldn't be expected to carry the load playing next to KAT, but I would just like to see a true 5 there. Are far as Hield, when he stands next to teammates and/or opponents, he just looks small. Maybe if he was projected as a 1, but isn't everybody projecting him as a 2?

I haven't looked at DX latest evaluation but it seemed like they hadn't really updated his since the beginning of the year. I've sorta already made my evaluation of him so I haven't looked but maybe they give him more love now idk.

I agree with what you say on both Poeltl and Heild. Like you said it makes sense to get a true 5 here Poeltl is true 5 and he has had some good moments in college and is a young productive prospect. A few of us have expressed our concerns and I think they line up pretty much exactly with the ones you have said from what I remember. I also worry about guys that we end up labeling "True center" are these guys going to be playable at this level? Poeltl seems to have more offensive game coming out of college than some other guys around the league that have become somewhat unplayable but yeah I wonder if we end up with a part time player at best but we could be getting that with any of these guys. Your point has been get the best players at the best value and have suggested trading down to do so. I agree with the philosophy get the best value and best player or players.

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:http://www.startribune.com/bentil-s-defense-catches-wolves-eye/379293841/

I found this morning's article in the Strib about Ben Bentil to be interesting for several reasons. First of all, I didn't know much about him before reading this article, but he sounds like a very good prospect. And the fact that a PF with an NBA-ready body who averaged 21 and 8 on 46% shooting, and is a plus defender with 3-point range, is slated to go late in the first round at best, tells me a lot about the depth of this draft. Combine that depth with the disagreement among us here about the quality of the players at the top of the lottery, and trading pick 4-7 for a couple later first rounders seems like a prudent move.

I also found it intriguing that Zgoda focused on this one recruit, and that Thibs also spent some time with him. I like Thibs work ethic and thoroughness in approaching this draft, and while he may just be keeping his options open, interviewing a lower-tier candidate like Bentil may signal that he is leaning toward trading our pick.

I'm not sure I should read into anything of Thibs or any guy leading an NBA franchise working with meeting working out or whatever prospects at every level of the draft pool other than they are doing their job. If they aren't doing it I have a real problem with that. I think Flip (and other basketball people) have said part of this draft process is doing homework for maybe making a move or bringing in a guy in FA or a trade or whatever. Do as much homework on a guy as you possibly can when you can. Sure Thibs and the Wolves should get credit for doing this due dillegence but Like I said it's their job. I hope Thibs and Layden are more aggressive finding ways to add young talent to the roster in anyway possible than we have seen the last few years when it seems like too often the Wolves were too hesitant to just add a young player even if it meant having a really young roster. Get that damn D-league going, pick more international stash guys, take another young player or 2 if you really like him and trust your coaching staff to develop them.

To Thibs credit if he really did like Draymond Green and Dieng you wonder if he will try and make a move to add a pick for another young player in the 2nd round or something like that. It seems possible going into the draft Glen has his blank checks ready instead of polishing up his piggy bank.

The thing I find interesting, monster, is how often this Bentil guy's name keeps popping up. He was at Mayo Square last week working out for the Wolves, Thibs and others interviewed him again yesterday, and JZ writes an article about him today...lots of activity swirling around a guy projected to be a second rounder. The fact that Thibs and Co. seem to be spending more time with non-lottery guys than they are with the guys we are talking about is what makes me think they are seriously considering either trading down or trading for a second rounder.

Just to play devil's advocate those guys are easy to spend time with. They are fighting to get drafted and for Bentil he is still deciding whether to stay in the draft or not. He has incentive to do all this stuff.

I do think you are right there could be something there though. Zgoda seems like he maybe has some connection with Thibs and he may be getting a little feel for what is going on. I know Zgoda doing some work MAYBE even decent work it would be amazing but yeah it's possible. I do get the feeling Thibs and Layden are going to be more aggressive like I said previously going after guys at the end of the 1st round and in the 2nd round and sometimes you can just pay for those picks as we well know. Lol

We have less than a 9% chance, so I don't really even want to think this because it's kind of just setting us up for disappointment, but what if the lottery gods are smiling on us and we actually get the #1 pick? What would you guys do?

Pick Simmons?
Pick Ingram?
Trade for ???? (what do you think the market is for the #1 pick?)

I really don't know what I'd do. If we traded it, in my book, I'd want to get an all-star or at least a borderline all-star who fits what we need. Or MAYBE a young guy with upside like Marcus Smart or Devin Booker plus a good future first (Boston is sitting on a bunch of Nets picks).

I see how Ingram fits better. Brings shooting and more defense than Simmons, both of which Thibs says he wants. We could plug him in to what we've already got going without really affecting anybody else much.

Something about Simmons really intrigues me though. His rebounding, passing, and transition play are truly exceptional. His court vision and passing is seriously on LeBron's level and really reminds me of Magic at times. I think too much has been made about the motivation issue, and if he's going to develop as a defender, Thibs should be able to do it. He's got the size and athleticism to guard multiple positions, which is key. Guys have come in with broken jump shots before and developed them when they have that level of skill. The drawback is obviously fit. We already have Rubio, a distributer who can't shoot. Two of those would be tough to go with over the long haul.

But Simmons' talent is just too obvious to pass up for me. We could take him and he develops a jumper and we can keep him and Rubio if they can play well together. And even if he doesn't develop a jumper, his talent is so obvious that we'd probably have two choices. 1) If he turns out to be as good as he could potentially be, we could actually decide to go with Simmons as the main ball handler and Rubio becomes more expendable (we could then slide LaVine to the 1 spot without worrying about the decision making, and move Wiggins to the 2 full time). It would be an unorthodox lineup, but it's not unlike what the Cavs and Warriors are dong with LeBron and Green. LaVine's becoming a good shooter, and if we added a generic 3 and D forward to a lineup of LaVine, Wiggins, Simmons, and Towns, man, that would be some exciting basketball! 2) If it really isn't working out after a couple years, we could trade Simmons for somebody really good because Simmons' value will still be high. He might not be a great fit for us because we have Rubio, but lots of teams out there would kill to have a guy that good.

What do you guys think? I mad that I'm letting myself even think about this because it's probably not going to happen, but if you've got a lottery ticket, why not dream a little?

When is the draft lottery?

BizarroJerry wrote:When is the draft lottery?

May 17

SameOldDrew wrote:We have less than a 9% chance, so I don't really even want to think this because it's kind of just setting us up for disappointment, but what if the lottery gods are smiling on us and we actually get the #1 pick? What would you guys do?

Pick Simmons?
Pick Ingram?
Trade for ???? (what do you think the market is for the #1 pick?)

I really don't know what I'd do. If we traded it, in my book, I'd want to get an all-star or at least a borderline all-star who fits what we need. Or MAYBE a young guy with upside like Marcus Smart or Devin Booker plus a good future first (Boston is sitting on a bunch of Nets picks).

I see how Ingram fits better. Brings shooting and more defense than Simmons, both of which Thibs says he wants. We could plug him in to what we've already got going without really affecting anybody else much.

Something about Simmons really intrigues me though. His rebounding, passing, and transition play are truly exceptional. His court vision and passing is seriously on LeBron's level and really reminds me of Magic at times. I think too much has been made about the motivation issue, and if he's going to develop as a defender, Thibs should be able to do it. He's got the size and athleticism to guard multiple positions, which is key. Guys have come in with broken jump shots before and developed them when they have that level of skill. The drawback is obviously fit. We already have Rubio, a distributer who can't shoot. Two of those would be tough to go with over the long haul.

But Simmons' talent is just too obvious to pass up for me. We could take him and he develops a jumper and we can keep him and Rubio if they can play well together. And even if he doesn't develop a jumper, his talent is so obvious that we'd probably have two choices. 1) If he turns out to be as good as he could potentially be, we could actually decide to go with Simmons as the main ball handler and Rubio becomes more expendable (we could then slide LaVine to the 1 spot without worrying about the decision making, and move Wiggins to the 2 full time). It would be an unorthodox lineup, but it's not unlike what the Cavs and Warriors are dong with LeBron and Green. LaVine's becoming a good shooter, and if we added a generic 3 and D forward to a lineup of LaVine, Wiggins, Simmons, and Towns, man, that would be some exciting basketball! 2) If it really isn't working out after a couple years, we could trade Simmons for somebody really good because Simmons' value will still be high. He might not be a great fit for us because we have Rubio, but lots of teams out there would kill to have a guy that good.

What do you guys think? I mad that I'm letting myself even think about this because it's probably not going to happen, but if you've got a lottery ticket, why not dream a little?

I haven't really dated to dream too much but I am still where I was weeks ago and that's taking Ingram #1 because like you said he brings shooting and defense and he brings plenty of versatility. I'd rather keep Ingram and watch him turn into a good player than trade for...a good player.

Simmons I have concerns about but your case is where I am with him as well. I think it's quite possible his shot improves but that's not a given. As far as him and Rubio if Simmons is really good at handling the ball and creating Then at times Rubio may be able to transition to being the 3 and D player that's needed because I think there has been signs throughout his career he can be a 3 and D guy.

Like I've said before jumping up to #3 would be pretty good and there is a somewhat decent chance of that so that's about where I draw my line of hope. Lol

Good post by Drew above discussing what we do if we win the lottery and get the first pick. Yes, it's unlikely...only a 10% chance. But the Wolves have never moved up in the lottery, and everything seems to be going right for us, so maybe this is the year we move up.

Drew analyzes the options at #1 very well above. Right now, my choice would be to keep the pick and draft Simmons. I think he has by far the highest ceiling in this draft and could be a home run pick. I love the idea of a kid close to 7 feet who has the insane vision and passing skills that he has. I understand there are concerns about his length, but I would argue that his length is actually a strength for a guy who can play the perimeter like him...he just doesn't have elite PF or C length. And while he has the reputation of being a poor jump shooter, he has shown the ability to score in other ways...shooting a spectacular 56% from the field in his one year in college.

Getting the first pick would be an awesome development for the Wolves, and leave them with three very good options. My opnion might change when I really dig into it (not going to do it now because of the low chance of winning the lottery), but right now I lean toward Simmons.