Wolves fire rosas!!!

[Lipoli390]

Check out the following excerpt from TheAthletic:

Prior to the announcement, The Athletic had spent the last several weeks investigating the working environment under Rosas and interviewed numerous sources on the current staff about the situation after learning of mounting discontent. Some said Rosas worked his staff long hours without giving much input into the decision-making process. Others took issue with decisions made on personnel moves and trades, including the light protections on a first-round draft pick that landed them D'Angelo Russell from Golden State, Rosas' signature move.

"It's hard," one member of the organization who followed Rosas to Minnesota after he was hired said. "He's not who I thought he was."

Rosas also had several backers in the organization, who said the current issues they were facing were more related to the pandemic and the stress brought on by the ownership change than Rosas' leadership style.

Some of the issues were exacerbated this summer when Rosas and Gupta butted heads over Rosas' decision to block Gupta from making a lateral move to the Houston Rockets with increased pay, sources said. Rosas said the timing of the request, coming right before the draft and free agency, made it impossible for the Timberwolves to let someone with as much proprietary knowledge of the team's plans go to a competitor. The tension between Rosas and Gupta only grew later in August when Rosas banished Gupta from the team's offices and granted him permission to seek employment elsewhere, according to sources. The issue was resolved in early September after ownership got involved and Gupta decided to stay.

This article is a very interesting read. Putting aside Gersson's affair with Bri, this article leaves me a bit ambivalent over the decision to fire Gersson. I can see how he might have been a dick. On the other hand, I also get the sense that he was resented for making tough decisions that a person in his position has to make - especially when taking over a losing organization. I think Gersson absolutely made the right decision to block Gupta from making a lateral move to Houston. I agree that the timing of that move was highly problematic. In that instance, I think Gersson took a hard-nosed but necessary step to protect the organization.

According to the article, Gersson was also resented for his decision to part ways with Zarko Durisic. referred to in the article as "a beloved longtime scout..." As the Wolves top international scout, Zarko had a singularly unimpressive record. I applaud Gersson for letting him go and I applaud him for taking the heat that was sure to come from dismissing a beloved long time employee. It goes with the territory as a top executive trying to turn around a perennial loser. Apparently, some in the front office were angry over the light protections Gersson agreed to in the DLO-Wiggins deal. Well, I didn't like that deal either, but it was Gersson's decision to make and he never ducked accountability for that decision. And I think the jury's still out on whether DLO was worth losing the #7 and #36 picks in this year's draft.

The article also reports that rival executives and player agents were angry with how Gersson negotiated and felt he wasn't honest with them. Well, I wouldn't want rival agents to be happy with the way my top executive negotiates. As for player agents, I really don't care or trust what they have to say. The article reports that J-Mac's agent was angry because Rosas changed his view of J-Mac's role on the team after trading for Beverley. Well, of course he did. Was Gersson supposed to stop looking to acquire players like Beverley to make sure J-Mac's role wouldn't change from what he might have been told originally?

My main take-away from the article was that Rosas might have been a bit of a dick, but for the most part he was resented by those who were used to a comfortable existence in a losing organization or those outside the organization who were used to having their way with Wolves executives who always seemed to give away the store. I get the sense that Gersson pushed people in the organization and was willing to make tough, unpopular decisions. But that's precisely what top executives, as leaders, are supposed to do. The affair with Bri was wrong and was certainly grounds for termination. But I don't think Rosas would have been terminated if not for the well of resentment he apparently engendered in the organization. I'm just not sure that Rosas was necessarily the villain in this story of resentment. Instead, I wonder whether the true villain in this narrative was a complacent, losing culture that predated Rosas and that will continue to resist the sort of leadership essential to building a winning culture. I'll have to learn more and do some more thinking on this. But right now, I'm not ready to totally buy the story that has Rosas wearing the black hat.

[Coolbreeze44]

Lip, don't you have to be in court in the morning? You need your beauty sleep.

[Lipoli390]

Lip, don't you have to be in court in the morning? You need your beauty sleep.

My beauty doesn't depend on sleep. :)

[Lipoli390]

Prior to the announcement, The Athletic had spent the last several weeks investigating the working environment under Rosas and interviewed numerous sources on the current staff about the situation after learning of mounting discontent. Some said Rosas worked his staff long hours without giving much input into the decision-making process. Others took issue with decisions made on personnel moves and trades, including the light protections on a first-round draft pick that landed them D'Angelo Russell from Golden State, Rosas' signature move. - via Jon Krawczynski, Shams Charania, Jon Krawczynski and Shams Charania @ The Athletic


My Take: Boo boo is my response to complaints about long hours and lack of "much input into the decision-making process." Building a winner from the ashes of a loser requires long hours. And you have no right to expect any particular level of input into decisions. Ultimately the decision maker is the person who will be held accountable. That's the PBO. As for personnel moves or trades like the DLO deal, those were Gersson's judgment calls as PBO. Like any top executive, Gersson should have been judged on the results of those decisions in their totality. The jury is still out on whether the sum total of Gersson's player personnel decisions were a net positive or negative. This upcoming season will probably tell the tale. But the fact that some in the organization disagreed with some of Gersson's decisions should be irrelevant to a decision on his tenure.

[Lipoli390]

Some of the issues were exacerbated this summer when Rosas and Gupta butted heads over Rosas' decision to block Gupta from making a lateral move to the Houston Rockets with increased pay, sources said. Rosas said the timing of the request, coming right before the draft and free agency, made it impossible for the Timberwolves to let someone with as much proprietary knowledge of the team's plans go to a competitor. The tension between Rosas and Gupta only grew later in August when Rosas banished Gupta from the team's offices and granted him permission to seek employment elsewhere, according to sources. The issue was resolved in early September after ownership got involved and Gupta decided to stay. - via Jon Krawczynski, Shams Charania, Jon Krawczynski and Shams Charania @ The Athletic


My take: You can see the dick factor in play here as Rosas apparently banished Gupta from the team's offices. That strikes me as a bush-league, petty maneuver and it is probably indicative of other similar actions by Rosas that would be problematic. However, I think Rosas was right to prohibit Gupta from making the lateral move to Houston. That decision by Rosas was in the best interest of the organization and was the sort of tough stance leaders in Gersson's position sometimes have to take.

[Monster]

Check out the following excerpt from TheAthletic:

Prior to the announcement, The Athletic had spent the last several weeks investigating the working environment under Rosas and interviewed numerous sources on the current staff about the situation after learning of mounting discontent. Some said Rosas worked his staff long hours without giving much input into the decision-making process. Others took issue with decisions made on personnel moves and trades, including the light protections on a first-round draft pick that landed them D'Angelo Russell from Golden State, Rosas' signature move.

"It's hard," one member of the organization who followed Rosas to Minnesota after he was hired said. "He's not who I thought he was."

Rosas also had several backers in the organization, who said the current issues they were facing were more related to the pandemic and the stress brought on by the ownership change than Rosas' leadership style.

Some of the issues were exacerbated this summer when Rosas and Gupta butted heads over Rosas' decision to block Gupta from making a lateral move to the Houston Rockets with increased pay, sources said. Rosas said the timing of the request, coming right before the draft and free agency, made it impossible for the Timberwolves to let someone with as much proprietary knowledge of the team's plans go to a competitor. The tension between Rosas and Gupta only grew later in August when Rosas banished Gupta from the team's offices and granted him permission to seek employment elsewhere, according to sources. The issue was resolved in early September after ownership got involved and Gupta decided to stay.

This article is a very interesting read. Putting aside Gersson's affair with Bri, this article leaves me a bit ambivalent over the decision to fire Gersson. I can see how he might have been a dick. On the other hand, I also get the sense that he was resented for making tough decisions that a person in his position has to make - especially when taking over a losing organization. I think Gersson absolutely made the right decision to block Gupta from making a lateral move to Houston. I agree that the timing of that move was highly problematic. In that instance, I think Gersson took a hard-nosed but necessary step to protect the organization.

According to the article, Gersson was also resented for his decision to part ways with Zarko Durisic. referred to in the article as "a beloved longtime scout..." As the Wolves top international scout, Zarko had a singularly unimpressive record. I applaud Gersson for letting him go and I applaud him for taking the heat that was sure to come from dismissing a beloved long time employee. It goes with the territory as a top executive trying to turn around a perennial loser. Apparently, some in the front office were angry over the light protections Gersson agreed to in the DLO-Wiggins deal. Well, I didn't like that deal either, but it was Gersson's decision to make and he never ducked accountability for that decision. And I think the jury's still out on whether DLO was worth losing the #7 and #36 picks in this year's draft.

The article also reports that rival executives and player agents were angry with how Gersson negotiated and felt he wasn't honest with them. Well, I wouldn't want rival agents to be happy with the way my top executive negotiates. As for player agents, I really don't care or trust what they have to say. The article reports that J-Mac's agent was angry because Rosas changed his view of J-Mac's role on the team after trading for Beverley. Well, of course he did. Was Gersson supposed to stop looking to acquire players like Beverley to make sure J-Mac's role wouldn't change from what he might have been told originally?

My main take-away from the article was that Rosas might have been a bit of a dick, but for the most part he was resented by those who were used to a comfortable existence in a losing organization or those outside the organization who were used to having their way with Wolves executives who always seemed to give away the store. I get the sense that Gersson pushed people in the organization and was willing to make tough, unpopular decisions. But that's precisely what top executives, as leaders, are supposed to do. The affair with Bri was wrong and was certainly grounds for termination. But I don't think Rosas would have been terminated if not for the well of resentment he apparently engendered in the organization. I'm just not sure that Rosas was necessarily the villain in this story of resentment. Instead, I wonder whether the true villain in this narrative was a complacent, losing culture that predated Rosas and that will continue to resist the sort of leadership essential to building a winning culture. I'll have to learn more and do some more thinking on this. But right now, I'm not ready to totally buy the story that has Rosas wearing the black hat.

It was clear that Jon K had some reasons for digging around. Wolfson had mentioned issues and so had Dane Moore.

Like you Lip I'm not buying ALL the terribleness off Rosas as an executive...and I don't think it was what got him fired today. This article mentioned in August that Rosas banned Gupta from the offices. Well there are Twitter reports that seem to now be credible that Gupta may have been the person that happened to see the encounter between Rosas and the female coworker. Just putting a couple things together here...If at that point Rosas was like ok fine leave because he didn't want Gupta around that's not too great.

I don't really have too much of a problem with blocking someone from a lateral move. If they liked him so much maybe they offer him a little more money or add another year to his contract. I also get that you may not want to let people get raises etc by trying to get other jobs but if you really like someone you do what you can to keep them.

Also I do think the pandemic is/was super challenging. I know some people in MUCH lesser and smaller organizations that struggled to lead in an unprecedented time.

Bottom line IMO is Rosas had some things not going in his favor but having an affair with a coworker was the thing that actually got him fired now. The other stuff may have gotten him removed from the job eventually but not now.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Some of the issues were exacerbated this summer when Rosas and Gupta butted heads over Rosas' decision to block Gupta from making a lateral move to the Houston Rockets with increased pay, sources said. Rosas said the timing of the request, coming right before the draft and free agency, made it impossible for the Timberwolves to let someone with as much proprietary knowledge of the team's plans go to a competitor. The tension between Rosas and Gupta only grew later in August when Rosas banished Gupta from the team's offices and granted him permission to seek employment elsewhere, according to sources. The issue was resolved in early September after ownership got involved and Gupta decided to stay. - via Jon Krawczynski, Shams Charania, Jon Krawczynski and Shams Charania @ The Athletic


My take: You can see the dick factor in play here as Rosas apparently banished Gupta from the team's offices. That strikes me as a bush-league, petty maneuver and it is probably indicative of other similar actions by Rosas that would be problematic. However, I think Rosas was right to prohibit Gupta from making the lateral move to Houston. That decision by Rosas was in the best interest of the organization and was the sort of tough stance leaders in Gersson's position sometimes have to take.

Lip, I agree with everything you've said in your last few posts, but I disagree with your opinion that banishing Sachin Gupta from the team's offices was bush-league or petty and I think you'll see why. Rather, I see that as Gersson Rosas protecting the organization's interests similarly to how he blocked Gupta from leaving for a job with Houston before the draft. From my understanding, Rosas didn't banish Gupta for the sake of being petty. He removed him in order to allow him to seek employment elsewhere -- i.e. distancing Gupta from the organization and its plans while he proactively looked for another organization to take him in. That seems logical to me. If you have a subordinate determined to leave for a competitor, then you wouldn't want them to know your immediate plans, goals, and moves ahead of time. I find that to be a fair compromise on Rosas' part.

[Monster]

Some of the issues were exacerbated this summer when Rosas and Gupta butted heads over Rosas' decision to block Gupta from making a lateral move to the Houston Rockets with increased pay, sources said. Rosas said the timing of the request, coming right before the draft and free agency, made it impossible for the Timberwolves to let someone with as much proprietary knowledge of the team's plans go to a competitor. The tension between Rosas and Gupta only grew later in August when Rosas banished Gupta from the team's offices and granted him permission to seek employment elsewhere, according to sources. The issue was resolved in early September after ownership got involved and Gupta decided to stay. - via Jon Krawczynski, Shams Charania, Jon Krawczynski and Shams Charania @ The Athletic


My take: You can see the dick factor in play here as Rosas apparently banished Gupta from the team's offices. That strikes me as a bush-league, petty maneuver and it is probably indicative of other similar actions by Rosas that would be problematic. However, I think Rosas was right to prohibit Gupta from making the lateral move to Houston. That decision by Rosas was in the best interest of the organization and was the sort of tough stance leaders in Gersson's position sometimes have to take.

Lip, I agree with everything you've said in your last few posts, but I disagree with your opinion that banishing Sachin Gupta from the team's offices was bush-league or petty and I think you'll see why. Rather, I see that as Gersson Rosas protecting the organization's interests similarly to how he blocked Gupta from leaving for a job with Houston before the draft. From my understanding, Rosas didn't banish Gupta for the sake of being petty. He removed him in order to allow him to seek employment elsewhere -- i.e. distancing Gupta from the organization and its plans while he proactively looked for another organization to take him in. That seems logical to me. If you have a subordinate determined to leave for a competitor, then you wouldn't want them to know your immediate plans, goals, and moves ahead of time. I find that to be a fair compromise on Rosas' part.

That's a good perspective Cam. If that was the case then you are right.

For what it's worth and it could be written from a different perspective but What was reported though was he was banished. That's something punitive not a mutual agreement you are going your separate ways.

My guess is there is going to be a lot more coming out about what happened and I think there are going to be some legit things Rosas did that will come out aside from his infidelity. I like that both you and Lip are looking objectively at all this reporting because it benefits various people to basically just bag on the guy that got fired. It's also worth noting that various MN media clearly knew about some of this stuff but never reported it only hinted at things so to me that means there were issues but nothing worth writing a big story about. Basically they were bathing info in case there was a big story or...for when one broke...which happened tonight.

[worldK]

My take is that Rosas is bound to be fired no matter what. The new ownership wants their own guy and that is to be expected. However, Rosas being exposed with the affair and the 'toxic environment' currently on the wolves front office got him fired sooner.

I agree with the decision. This news about Rosas creeps me out since all Rosas talks about was building a family centered culture and has presented himself as a family guy. This is looking bad for Rosas both personally and professionally and I hope he gets his act together. He probably wont get another front office job in the league ever again.

[FNG]

Thibs was a nightmare who had to go and by that I mean he was a terrible GM who traded away a future all-star Zach Lavine just to rent Jimmy for one season to inflate his wins, drafted Dunn, Okogie and some washed center ahead of Jarrett Allen and John Collins. That playoff season not only cost the Wolves Lavine but the opportunity to draft Michael Porter. Thibs as a coach is certainly far better than Thibs as a GM, but he still was a poor fit here. He was touted as a defensive savant yet had very little impact on that end. Thibs also rewarded the young trio of KAT, Lavine and Wiggs with virtually unlimited playing time even when they coasted on defense. Those are not the habits I want installed on three young athletic talented youngsters. So I was glad to see the Thibs era come to a close even if he has had some success as a coach elsewhere and renting Jimmy to make the playoffs here is not all that impressive.

KG, thank you for providing some much needed reality about Tom Thibodeau. I've only been around these parts for a year, but there seems to be a narrative on this board that Thibs won here. He didn't, and to say otherwise is revisionist history. Jimmy Butler won here just as he has won every season of his career...he has never been part of a losing team. But Thibs did not. Yes, the Wolves had a 47-35 record in the one full season Butler played here, but without Butler Thibs coached the Wolves to a pathetic 50-72 record...that's not winning, boys. He took over what he called "the best young roster in the league" and coached them to a sterling 31-51 record...a whopping 2 more wins than Sam Mitchell the previous year despite the improvement we always expect young players to make. Then after Butler led us to our one winning record, Thibs was on his way to another losing season when Glen realized he wasn't going to win here and that the fans were demanding a change. Let's not forget how unpleasant it was to be at Target Center when Thibs was coaching sans Butler. Frankly it was much more fun watching the Wolves lose with Sam Mitchell and Ryan Saunders than it was watching them lose with Thibs...and any season ticket holder here will say the same thing.

Give Thibs credit for turning the Knicks around...he deserves a lot of credit for what he has accomplished there. But please stop saying that Thibs "won" here, because without Butler, he was a disaster, and I don't remember many unhappy people at Target Center after Glen sent him packing.