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Re: McDaniels the key?
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:39 pm
by AbeVigodaLive
Q-was-here wrote:KiwiMatt wrote:Sort of half watched the game. What stood out to me was how underwhelming RoCo played. Looked slow and missed that bunny to tie the game. I see the Wolves are rumoured to be interested in acquiring him, but I'm not sure I'd be prepared to give up much to get him based on what I've seen of him this season.
Yeah, he might be cooked. Of course, I thought the same of PJ Tucker last year before being traded to Milwaukee and then he proved really instrumental to their run.
The question is this: Can RoCo give us more than either Okogie or Prince? Certainly the RoCo of two or three years ago easily could.
Depends what's asked of him. Tucker was actually pretty brutal in many ways during the playoff run for Milwaukee. He was basically a less athletic, slightly better rebounding Okogie. He was a non-entity on offense most games.
BUT... he had enough clout with the officials that he could foul 8 or 10 times and only get called for 4 or 5 of them. That's the PJ Tucker experience. He's been doing it for years.
So what would the Wolves expect from Covington?
Even now, he offers more of a threat to hit an outside shot than Okogie, but probably not as good of an individual defender. He's a guy who can't dribble or create but who can hit a few three pointers, even get hot for a game or two like Beasley... but much better on defense than the ridiculously out to lunch Beasley.
[Note: There are very valid reasons why Covington has gone from being booed in Philly to being an icon to being a savior or king of the mehs to overrated to whatever he is considered now. He's limited in what he does and goes through stages of good/bad play. No idea which one the Wolves would be getting though... all about timing.]
Re: McDaniels the key?
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:58 pm
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
These quotes from Chauncey Billups after last night's game are amusing to me. He's definitely giving credit to Minnesota, but you can tell he's just out of answers.
"Anthony Edwards was just... he was a handful," Billups said. "He was making a lot of shots."
"Not well," he said, when asked how Portland defended Minnesota's final play. "We were in good position right there. He was able to get a step on Ant without even using a move. I'm pretty sure if Ant had a do-over he would play that a little bit differently...Russell got a layup. You never want to give a layup."
Billups also called Jarred Vanderbilt the MVP of the game.
Re: McDaniels the key?
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:07 pm
by Q-is-here
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Q-was-here wrote:KiwiMatt wrote:Sort of half watched the game. What stood out to me was how underwhelming RoCo played. Looked slow and missed that bunny to tie the game. I see the Wolves are rumoured to be interested in acquiring him, but I'm not sure I'd be prepared to give up much to get him based on what I've seen of him this season.
Yeah, he might be cooked. Of course, I thought the same of PJ Tucker last year before being traded to Milwaukee and then he proved really instrumental to their run.
The question is this: Can RoCo give us more than either Okogie or Prince? Certainly the RoCo of two or three years ago easily could.
Depends what's asked of him. Tucker was actually pretty brutal in many ways during the playoff run for Milwaukee. He was basically a less athletic, slightly better rebounding Okogie.
He was a non-entity on offense most games.
BUT... he had enough clout with the officials that he could foul 8 or 10 times and only get called for 4 or 5 of them. That's the PJ Tucker experience. He's been doing it for years.
So what would the Wolves expect from Covington?
Even now, he offers more of a threat to hit an outside shot than Okogie, but probably not as good of an individual defender. He's a guy who can't dribble or create but who can hit a few three pointers, even get hot for a game or two like Beasley... but much better on defense than the ridiculously out to lunch Beasley.
[Note: There are very valid reasons why Covington has gone from being booed in Philly to being an icon to being a savior or king of the mehs to overrated to whatever he is considered now. He's limited in what he does and goes through stages of good/bad play. No idea which one the Wolves would be getting though... all about timing.]
BUT.....unlike Okogie, he's a career 39% corner 3-point shooter. Him simply standing in the corner is going to lead to better offense than Okogie standing in the corner, even if neither of them end up shooting it!
Okogie and McDaniels should basically spend their remaining waking hours as professional basketball players practicing corner 3's when not playing actual games. They literally don't need to work on anything else other than that shot. It'd be worth millions to them.
Re: McDaniels the key?
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:01 pm
by kekgeek
Q-was-here wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:Q-was-here wrote:KiwiMatt wrote:Sort of half watched the game. What stood out to me was how underwhelming RoCo played. Looked slow and missed that bunny to tie the game. I see the Wolves are rumoured to be interested in acquiring him, but I'm not sure I'd be prepared to give up much to get him based on what I've seen of him this season.
Yeah, he might be cooked. Of course, I thought the same of PJ Tucker last year before being traded to Milwaukee and then he proved really instrumental to their run.
The question is this: Can RoCo give us more than either Okogie or Prince? Certainly the RoCo of two or three years ago easily could.
Depends what's asked of him. Tucker was actually pretty brutal in many ways during the playoff run for Milwaukee. He was basically a less athletic, slightly better rebounding Okogie.
He was a non-entity on offense most games.
BUT... he had enough clout with the officials that he could foul 8 or 10 times and only get called for 4 or 5 of them. That's the PJ Tucker experience. He's been doing it for years.
So what would the Wolves expect from Covington?
Even now, he offers more of a threat to hit an outside shot than Okogie, but probably not as good of an individual defender. He's a guy who can't dribble or create but who can hit a few three pointers, even get hot for a game or two like Beasley... but much better on defense than the ridiculously out to lunch Beasley.
[Note: There are very valid reasons why Covington has gone from being booed in Philly to being an icon to being a savior or king of the mehs to overrated to whatever he is considered now. He's limited in what he does and goes through stages of good/bad play. No idea which one the Wolves would be getting though... all about timing.]
I think the question that needs to be asked is Covington better than Prince because Prince would need to be involved in the trade to make the money work. I think it is an interesting question.
BUT.....unlike Okogie, he's a career 39% corner 3-point shooter. Him simply standing in the corner is going to lead to better offense than Okogie standing in the corner, even if neither of them end up shooting it!
Okogie and McDaniels should basically spend their remaining waking hours as professional basketball players practicing corner 3's when not playing actual games. They literally don't need to work on anything else other than that shot. It'd be worth millions to them.
Re: McDaniels the key?
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:09 pm
by FNG
Missed the Portland win due to travel and work crap, and it sounds like I missed a really good one. Appreciate the GDT and the various twitter accounts to get a feel for this game.
Friends of mine who watched the game said what Ant did on D to CJ was criminal...said he was locked in all game. Combine that with 40 points and you have close to a perfect game.
I've also heard from a friend of mine that Portland is really embracing this team (Cool, is that your take?), and the fans are not going to be satisfied with not making the playoffs this year. They know they are playing really well and will have Dame back before the end of the season, so they think they could be pretty good post-season. I'm saying that just to point out that the price tag for RoCo might be more than we are suggesting here...i.e. out of our range. He's not having a great season, but he's getting 30 MPG as their starting PF. I think they're going to hold on to him absent a deal they can't refuse.
I'm selfishly hoping for a blowout tomorrow night...I'd prefer the Wolves, but more likely the other way. I'm going to the Suns game the next night, and I'm hoping to see some fresh legs from our guys.
Re: McDaniels the key?
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:30 pm
by Q-is-here
FNG wrote:Missed the Portland win due to travel and work crap, and it sounds like I missed a really good one. Appreciate the GDT and the various twitter accounts to get a feel for this game.
Friends of mine who watched the game said what Ant did on D to CJ was criminal...said he was locked in all game. Combine that with 40 points and you have close to a perfect game.
I've also heard from a friend of mine that Portland is really embracing this team (Cool, is that your take?), and the fans are not going to be satisfied with not making the playoffs this year. They know they are playing really well and will have Dame back before the end of the season, so they think they could be pretty good post-season. I'm saying that just to point out that the price tag for RoCo might be more than we are suggesting here...i.e. out of our range. He's not having a great season, but he's getting 30 MPG as their starting PF. I think they're going to hold on to him absent a deal they can't refuse.
I'm selfishly hoping for a blowout tomorrow night...I'd prefer the Wolves, but more likely the other way. I'm going to the Suns game the next night, and I'm hoping to see some fresh legs from our guys.
The Portland game was crazy. And we were one last-second miss by Portland from losing the game and being seriously pissed and disappointed. The same two heroes that helped win the game for us (Ant and DLO) were also the same two, er - goats would be the word for it - that missed three out of four free throws late and allowed Portland to even have a final shot for the win. That's easy to forget since it all worked out in the end. Oh, and both KAT and DLO made consecutive unforced turnovers with dumb passes to no one late in the 4th too.
I will say, I was pretty impressed with Portland's spunk and work rate. They played hard and scrambled, applying a lot of ball pressure all game. Alas, DLO took advantage of this on the Wolves' final possession by getting a step on Simons from well beyond the arc and driving all the way to the hoop. McCollum and RoCo were too afraid to come off Beasley and KAT to help. In fact, they both started to rotate and then suddenly hesitated to stay close to their man. This is where DLOs size and length as a PG really helped. While he hardly "blew" by Simons, he got by him enough to get him on his hip and then he was able to shield him enough to get the ball up on the glass, after which Simons finally recovered and goal-tended. Game over.
Have fun at the game!
Re: McDaniels the key?
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:57 pm
by Coolbreeze44
FNG wrote:Missed the Portland win due to travel and work crap, and it sounds like I missed a really good one. Appreciate the GDT and the various twitter accounts to get a feel for this game.
Friends of mine who watched the game said what Ant did on D to CJ was criminal...said he was locked in all game. Combine that with 40 points and you have close to a perfect game.
I've also heard from a friend of mine that Portland is really embracing this team (Cool, is that your take?), and the fans are not going to be satisfied with not making the playoffs this year. They know they are playing really well and will have Dame back before the end of the season, so they think they could be pretty good post-season. I'm saying that just to point out that the price tag for RoCo might be more than we are suggesting here...i.e. out of our range. He's not having a great season, but he's getting 30 MPG as their starting PF. I think they're going to hold on to him absent a deal they can't refuse.
I'm selfishly hoping for a blowout tomorrow night...I'd prefer the Wolves, but more likely the other way. I'm going to the Suns game the next night, and I'm hoping to see some fresh legs from our guys.
Judging by the number of empty seats last night, I don't think the fans can be embracing them too much. But you have to remember, outside of pro Soccer, the Blazers are the only show in town. Even non-sports fans are Blazer fans. This town needs another franchise. Baseball would seem the most likely followed by hockey.
Re: McDaniels the key?
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:24 am
by Monster
kekgeek1 wrote:Q-was-here wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:Q-was-here wrote:KiwiMatt wrote:Sort of half watched the game. What stood out to me was how underwhelming RoCo played. Looked slow and missed that bunny to tie the game. I see the Wolves are rumoured to be interested in acquiring him, but I'm not sure I'd be prepared to give up much to get him based on what I've seen of him this season.
Yeah, he might be cooked. Of course, I thought the same of PJ Tucker last year before being traded to Milwaukee and then he proved really instrumental to their run.
The question is this: Can RoCo give us more than either Okogie or Prince? Certainly the RoCo of two or three years ago easily could.
Depends what's asked of him. Tucker was actually pretty brutal in many ways during the playoff run for Milwaukee. He was basically a less athletic, slightly better rebounding Okogie.
He was a non-entity on offense most games.
BUT... he had enough clout with the officials that he could foul 8 or 10 times and only get called for 4 or 5 of them. That's the PJ Tucker experience. He's been doing it for years.
So what would the Wolves expect from Covington?
Even now, he offers more of a threat to hit an outside shot than Okogie, but probably not as good of an individual defender. He's a guy who can't dribble or create but who can hit a few three pointers, even get hot for a game or two like Beasley... but much better on defense than the ridiculously out to lunch Beasley.
[Note: There are very valid reasons why Covington has gone from being booed in Philly to being an icon to being a savior or king of the mehs to overrated to whatever he is considered now. He's limited in what he does and goes through stages of good/bad play. No idea which one the Wolves would be getting though... all about timing.]
I think the question that needs to be asked is Covington better than Prince because Prince would need to be involved in the trade to make the money work. I think it is an interesting question.
BUT.....unlike Okogie, he's a career 39% corner 3-point shooter. Him simply standing in the corner is going to lead to better offense than Okogie standing in the corner, even if neither of them end up shooting it!
Okogie and McDaniels should basically spend their remaining waking hours as professional basketball players practicing corner 3's when not playing actual games. They literally don't need to work on anything else other than that shot. It'd be worth millions to them.
I agree the question is probably more about who is better Prince of Covington. Prince might actually be a better 3 point shooter. He also can give you more on offense as he can handle the ball some and pass. Covington used to be an all NBA defender. I have no idea what level he defends at now. I also don't know where Prince is at this point on that end. I now advanced stats don't look great but I'm not exactly buying that. Covington probably still is a really good team defender that was his strength a few years ago. His man point of attack defense was good but it was his ability to roam around was what made him really good. If I was gonna pick between the 2 obviously I'm rolling the dice on Covington but how much more would I give up? Like Cam said it's probably two 2nds. I'd send Naz to them if we could get some additional value back.
Re: McDaniels the key?
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:24 am
by Q-is-here
I think Prince is a bit better on offense than RoCo. But RoCo pretty much beats out Prince in nearly ever imaginable defensive metric - Defensive Estimated Plus Minus, Defensive Box Score Plus Minus, Defensive Rebounding, blocks, steals, etc.
Ultimately, I'd consider him an upgrade to Prince and someone we could slot in as our primary hybrid forward option off the bench. He'd really help shore up our team defense without ruining the spacing on offense since he's still a threat from beyond the arc.
Re: McDaniels the key?
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:34 am
by FNG
I completely agree that RoCo would be an upgrade over Prince. But my sources tell me Portland gets a say in this deal too, and they would clearly see Prince as a big downgrade. RoCo is perhaps their best defender and is getting 30MPG as their starting PF, and Prince struggles to find consistent minutes. RoCo is a far better defender and rebounder, and is making 35.1% of his threes compared to 32.6% for Prince. Portland has to be thinking playoffs as well as they have been playing of late (especially with Dame returning in March), and I don't think throwing in second round picks is going to convince Portland to unload a starter in exchange for Taurean...it would take more.