Page 13 of 32
Re: Trade market and trade hype thread
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:32 am
by worldK
khans2k5 wrote:I'd rather trade up Jackson than keep him.
Det - Ricky, Bazz
ORL- Jackson
MN - Ibaka
I want ibaka as well. But what will orlando do with payton?
khans2k5 wrote:I'd rather trade up Jackson than keep him.
Det - Ricky, Bazz
ORL- Jackson
MN - Ibaka
I want ibaka as well but what would the magic do with payton? Can they get good value in return for payton? is there a market for elfrid payton out there?
Re: Trade market and trade hype thread
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:47 am
by Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Q12543 wrote:If we get Jackson, be prepared to lament that [insert your favorite wing] isn't getting enough touches. I hear folks complain now (well, mostly Cool) about Wiggins standing in the corner for stretches and not getting enough touches and that's with one of the most reluctant shooting PGs in league history! Just wait until we get Reggie Jackson. Wiggins may go missing for weeks at a time!
I think Jackson is a talented player, but is he the right fit for our current roster? This would be the second team he's burned bridges with. Not a good sign.
Tough week for Cool on here. I've certainly complained about that, but it's been a while. I think I've come to a reluctant acceptance of it.
I'm just not sure where the majority of the fault lies, with Wig himself or the scheme. I do know we should be running a lot more than we do now.
I don't think there is fault to be had, as I'm not sure how one can argue that Wiggins isn't given enough touches. The two other 20+ PPG he plays with are just as gifted offensively (KAT more so) and are more efficient. Not many teams have three players like this, so it's inevitable that there will be stretches without seeing the ball much. Certainly this happens with LaVine too.
However, my larger point is that if you add Reggie Jackson into the mix, LaVine and Wiggins will be the ones who get less shots, not KAT. Reggie and KAT will run a ton of pick and roll together. LaVine and Wiggins will be parked in corners more often.
Is that the best use of their skills? Does less workload offensively lead to better defense? Or does a lack of engagement affect other parts of their game negatively?
Things to ponder......
Re: Trade market and trade hype thread
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:52 am
by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
worldK wrote:khans2k5 wrote:I'd rather trade up Jackson than keep him.
Det - Ricky, Bazz
ORL- Jackson
MN - Ibaka
I want ibaka as well. But what will orlando do with payton?
khans2k5 wrote:I'd rather trade up Jackson than keep him.
Det - Ricky, Bazz
ORL- Jackson
MN - Ibaka
I want ibaka as well but what would the magic do with payton? Can they get good value in return for payton? is there a market for elfrid payton out there?
I don't think Elfrid should have any impact on a Jackson trade. He'd be Jackson's backup and that's probably where he's gonna be for his career (backup). He's not a great playmaker and he can't shoot. I don't think he's a starter in this league, but he could be a decent backup. You don't have to clear out Payton to make a deal for a PG and his value isn't going to take a huge hit moving to the bench because I don't think it's that high to begin with.
Re: Trade market and trade hype thread
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:40 am
by Monster
We don't know if the deal is close or not but let's say it is and it's basically Rubio and Bazz for Jackson and the Wolves just have to find another sweetener like some extra 2nd rounders or something or some other moderate asset. Would anyone else think it's weird nobody else hasn't stepped up with a better offer? Does SVG like Rubio and Bazz that much? Do teams really not value Jackson? I would think there would be talent starved teams that would welcome a player of his ilk that may have something better to offer. Maybe not not though when I start thinking about it.
Re: Trade market and trade hype thread
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:48 am
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
WildWolf2813 wrote:monsterpile wrote:Trading for Jackson doesn't mean they made the wrong pick of Dunn or they are low on him at this point. Jackson at this point is simply a more talented player than Rubio. You can debate which guy helps his team more but if this was a year ago and we traded Rubio and Bazz for Jackson I think most people would have been THRILLED. Jackson has the game that would be terrific as a 30mpg 6th man. You can't say that about Rubio.
Lavine has been basically playing with the bench in a pseudo 6th man role imagine if you put Jackson as the 6th man. Would Jackson come off the bench this year or in the future? Idk but based on his rotations this year there is a possibility of Jackson playing plenty of minutes. Would he give up some of his usage and pass the ball enough? Idk it would be interesting to see if Thibs could make it work. If Jackson started Suddenly Diengs complimentary unselfish play would become a more significant asset.
As for the other stuff that comes with Jackson. That's a big concern and it's a big deal. He would have to buy in bigtime and I don't know if he is capable of doing that. If he did...wow that would be a heck of a trade. Zach Randolph was a guy with baggage and Memphis took him on because they had cap space and man that turned out to be great. It would be a gamble. I also wonder if he would be a guy that would be able to be dealt again if it didn't work out. At this point I think he would have more value than Rubio does but his value could be worse.
How would it not be an indictment on where Thibs is on Dunn? We're about to enter a draft class filled with young talented PG's. Our PG's values get torpedoed with a move like this. First of all, Dieng making $64 mil and Jackson with an $80 mil contract when both ideally would be off the bench is a poor allocation of salaries when this team needs a starting PF and possibly even a SF if Wiggins and LaVine fail to play well together.
At the very least, it would be hard to trust Thibs with draft picks since apparently he has no real clue what he wants.
Have to chuckle when I see you post things like this (because it isn't the first time). Granted, Dunn wasn't my first choice, but it's way too early to act like he's a shitty draft pick and I'm not sure why you think Thibs has no clue what he wants. Dunn is exactly the kind of guard I'd envision him wanting -- defensive-minded, physically imposing, and an attacker on offense. It's also Thibs' first draft pick. Boy, you're jumping the gun with the accusations... He doesn't deserve full credit for the Bulls roster makeup, but it's fair to speculate that he probably had a hand in drafting Jimmy Butler and Doug McDermott, and he reportedly wanted Draymond Green. Have some patience.
Re: Trade market and trade hype thread
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:56 am
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
khans2k5 wrote:I'd rather trade up Jackson than keep him.
Det - Ricky, Bazz
ORL- Jackson
MN - Ibaka
We could do that, sure, OR we could acquire Jackson and still make a run at Ibaka in free agency. The money would be there since Rubio and Muhammad cost practically the same as Jackson.
Could Ibaka decide he wanted to play elsewhere? Sure, but guess what, he could do that in your scenario too. At least if you acquire Jackson you have something in hand first.
Re: Trade market and trade hype thread
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:32 am
by AbeVigodaLive
A few notes:
- When Thibodeau got here, Rubio's future became an issue immediately. He's a very polarizing player as we all know. And the way he plays (passing >> shooting) just doesn't fit with what many coaches and teams want from PGs in today's NBA. That's not a knock on Rubio. It's just the truth. So if this rumor has legs... we know for certain what kind Thibodeau values if we didn't already know. Personally, I prefer more unselfish PGs... but I get the desire for a guy who can score.
- Elfrid Payton is actually not a bad player. I know we love young guys here... well... he's only 22. And he's become more of a scorer in Year 3. His Per has gone up to 16.6. His TS% has improved by a healthy amount. His OBPM and DBPM are both above 0.
The rub is that Orlando is worse with him as a starter than DJ Augustin for whatever reason(s).
Starter: 8 - 17
Reserve: 10 - 10
Re: Trade market and trade hype thread
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:07 am
by mjs34
I guess I thought the problem with our team was on the defensive side of the ball. Do we really have a hard time scoring?
When I look at our team, I see BB IQ as our apparent weakness. I don't think this trade helps that, and may make things worse. Chemistry is another huge question mark. Ricky seems like an easy guy to get along with, can we say the same about Jackson.
Why are supposed to be so trusting of Thibs, when he has never been in this role before.
Re: Trade market and trade hype thread
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:27 am
by Coolbreeze44
Q12543 wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:Q12543 wrote:If we get Jackson, be prepared to lament that [insert your favorite wing] isn't getting enough touches. I hear folks complain now (well, mostly Cool) about Wiggins standing in the corner for stretches and not getting enough touches and that's with one of the most reluctant shooting PGs in league history! Just wait until we get Reggie Jackson. Wiggins may go missing for weeks at a time!
I think Jackson is a talented player, but is he the right fit for our current roster? This would be the second team he's burned bridges with. Not a good sign.
Tough week for Cool on here. I've certainly complained about that, but it's been a while. I think I've come to a reluctant acceptance of it.
I'm just not sure where the majority of the fault lies, with Wig himself or the scheme. I do know we should be running a lot more than we do now.
I don't think there is fault to be had, as I'm not sure how one can argue that Wiggins isn't given enough touches. The two other 20+ PPG he plays with are just as gifted offensively (KAT more so) and are more efficient. Not many teams have three players like this, so it's inevitable that there will be stretches without seeing the ball much. Certainly this happens with LaVine too.
However, my larger point is that if you add Reggie Jackson into the mix, LaVine and Wiggins will be the ones who get less shots, not KAT. Reggie and KAT will run a ton of pick and roll together. LaVine and Wiggins will be parked in corners more often.
Is that the best use of their skills? Does less workload offensively lead to better defense? Or does a lack of engagement affect other parts of their game negatively?
Things to ponder......
I'm not going to look it up, but I'm assuming Andrew's shots per touch ratio has to be really high for him to get the number of shots he does. At the end of the day he gets plenty of shots but in doing so he's not facilitating much for his teammates. His job seems to be to look for his offense whenever he gets the ball. I guess that's both good and bad at the same time. Good because he can score the ball so well, bad because he's not making his teammates better.
Re: Trade market and trade hype thread
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:17 pm
by bleedspeed
I give this a 20% chance of happening after listening to KFAN this AM.