Jazz at Wolves GDT

[kekgeek]

First game I’ve fully missed this year due to a wedding. I’m a block away from target center. Are the pups good???? Defense seems elite

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I honestly think we could design an offense around Ant where everyone else is just good at shooting, screening, cutting, and staying out of the lane. Space and pace with Ant carrying a 36% usage. But since we have KAT and Rudy, that won't happen for now. Not sure it's a great playoff offense either.

I’ve thought that for a long time. It’s always seemed pretty obvious to me and it’s a big reason why the Rudy deal was so dumb. The Ant-centric offense you described can flourish with KAT at center, but not with Rudy at center and KAT at PF.

If I understand Q right, the end of his post there doubts whether or not an offense featuring Ant and shooters, screeners, and cutters who space the floor could actually win in the playoffs, and I suspect that would be because of how bad our D would likely be. KAT could play the 5 on a team like that, and basically did before the Rudy trade. The Rudy deal looked terrible last year, and it might end up staying that way (though it looks better this year). But I bet the reason Connelly did it was because he doubted that team built around Ant with KAT at center could really be a contender. We'll never know now, but as much as the Rudy deal may look bad because of the picks and the contract and floor spacing, I can theoretically see how a team with Rudy may be better poised to make a deep playoff run even though he can't space the floor. Our defense really is better with him. Alternately, you'd need to have a stellar defensive big who can also stretch the floor well. Not many of those guys out there.

Anyway, great win tonight! Gotta keep that sort of thing up.

[Q-is-here]

First game I’ve fully missed this year due to a wedding. I’m a block away from target center. Are the pups good???? Defense seems elite

It was close until mid-way through the 3rd quarter and then the Wolves blew it open. Such a relief to see them put away a team they are better than on paper - something we didn't do enough of last year.

Stay safe out there!

[Q-is-here]

I honestly think we could design an offense around Ant where everyone else is just good at shooting, screening, cutting, and staying out of the lane. Space and pace with Ant carrying a 36% usage. But since we have KAT and Rudy, that won't happen for now. Not sure it's a great playoff offense either.

I’ve thought that for a long time. It’s always seemed pretty obvious to me and it’s a big reason why the Rudy deal was so dumb. The Ant-centric offense you described can flourish with KAT at center, but not with Rudy at center and KAT at PF.

If I understand Q right, the end of his post there doubts whether or not an offense featuring Ant and shooters, screeners, and cutters who space the floor could actually win in the playoffs, and I suspect that would be because of how bad our D would likely be. KAT could play the 5 on a team like that, and basically did before the Rudy trade. The Rudy deal looked terrible last year, and it might end up staying that way (though it looks better this year). But I bet the reason Connelly did it was because he doubted that team built around Ant with KAT at center could really be a contender. We'll never know now, but as much as the Rudy deal may look bad because of the picks and the contract and floor spacing, I can theoretically see how a team with Rudy may be better poised to make a deep playoff run even though he can't space the floor. Our defense really is better with him. Alternately, you'd need to have a stellar defensive big who can also stretch the floor well. Not many of those guys out there.

Anyway, great win tonight! Gotta keep that sort of thing up.

It's not just the D Drew, but offensively, teams with a super high-usage heliocentric player tend to stall out eventually. Think of those Houston teams with Harden and Dallas with Doncic. A playoff defense can eventually solve for a team that relies heavily on one guy too much.

I think what Finch may have done there in the 4th was to go totally Ant-centric, with Rudy on the bench. So you can do it in the context of the current team as well. I think Finch wanted Ant to close the game out, so they went full Ant-ball.

I expect we will see some more of that this season, where to start halves Ant is asked to move the ball, pick his spots judiciously, and take some plays off in the weakside corner. But then Finch may go full Ant-centric later in halves and give him a bunch of rope to shoot and dominate the ball.

[Lipoli390]

I honestly think we could design an offense around Ant where everyone else is just good at shooting, screening, cutting, and staying out of the lane. Space and pace with Ant carrying a 36% usage. But since we have KAT and Rudy, that won't happen for now. Not sure it's a great playoff offense either.

I’ve thought that for a long time. It’s always seemed pretty obvious to me and it’s a big reason why the Rudy deal was so dumb. The Ant-centric offense you described can flourish with KAT at center, but not with Rudy at center and KAT at PF.

If I understand Q right, the end of his post there doubts whether or not an offense featuring Ant and shooters, screeners, and cutters who space the floor could actually win in the playoffs, and I suspect that would be because of how bad our D would likely be. KAT could play the 5 on a team like that, and basically did before the Rudy trade. The Rudy deal looked terrible last year, and it might end up staying that way (though it looks better this year). But I bet the reason Connelly did it was because he doubted that team built around Ant with KAT at center could really be a contender. We'll never know now, but as much as the Rudy deal may look bad because of the picks and the contract and floor spacing, I can theoretically see how a team with Rudy may be better poised to make a deep playoff run even though he can't space the floor. Our defense really is better with him. Alternately, you'd need to have a stellar defensive big who can also stretch the floor well. Not many of those guys out there.

Anyway, great win tonight! Gotta keep that sort of thing up.

Let’s see. Last season’s NBA champion did not have a great defensive center. The Warriors won their championships without a great defensive center. The Bulls won six championships without a great defensive center. A team built around Ant as described by Q would be similar to the teams built around MJ. A team built around Ant and KAT would be in the same realm as the Denver team build around Jokic and Murray. We’ve never had an NBA champion with two starting centers and that includes the many decades when the League played big and slow with rules that favored defense and without much focus on three-point shooting.

The good news is that the Wolves are playing terrific defense. But that’s been an entire team effort that is attributable as much to the perimeter defenders as it is to our bigs. KAT’s defense has also been really good. The team has been defending well with Rudy on and off the court, although they are certainly better defensively when he’s on the court. I like the way the team is playing and I like what we’re seeing so far from Rudy.

This team might turn out to be really good this season, but I still see the Rudy-KAT-Ant mix as suboptimal. And that’s before considering Rudy’s contract or what the Wolves gave up to get him. That’s just my view and it’s a view widely shared by NBA observers who know a lot more about NBA basketball than I do. However, I’ve really enjoyed watching this team for 7 of the 10 halves they’ve played so far this season. And their defensive has been outstanding for 9 of those halves. Moreover, I’ve enjoyed watching Rudy play. He seems to have regained his defensive mojo and he’s playing with great energy and swagger. If we end up in the NBA finals or even the Conference finals this season then I’ll be fine with sub-optimal.

[Q-is-here]

I hear you Lip....the offense has been a struggle session during the 1+ year experiment, while the defense has been good.

I can see a second window that is Ant-centric and both Rudy AND KAT are gone. It could be Reid at PF, Jaden at SF, Ant at PG and then someone we can't predict at C and PG. I'm talking 2, 3, or 4 years from now. You still may need a defensive Center in that mix to start halves, but not at Rudy's price. Get a 3&D point guard and now you may have an interesting mix, where Ant is high usage, but gets some decent help from Reid and McDaniels.

[Lipoli390]

I hear you Lip....the offense has been a struggle session during the 1+ year experiment, while the defense has been good.

I can see a second window that is Ant-centric and both Rudy AND KAT are gone. It could be Reid at PF, Jaden at SF, Ant at PG and then someone we can't predict at C and PG. I'm talking 2, 3, or 4 years from now. You still may need a defensive Center in that mix to start halves, but not at Rudy's price. Get a 3&D point guard and now you may have an interesting mix, where Ant is high usage, but gets some decent help from Reid and McDaniels.

You’re right that there might be a second more Ant-centric window in the cards for this team down the road. I still see KAT as a really good fit with Ant because of KAT’s offensive versatility. Those two clicked really well two seasons ago. And I like having a big like KAT who can get you a bucket when you need on either inside or from behind the arc. KAT’s also a good passer. He’s Jokic light but use of the word “light” reflects the greatness of Jokic more than a slight to KAT. Naz Reid is probably the best among our bigs on an Ant-centric team. Naz pairs well with either KAT or Rudy.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I’ve thought that for a long time. It’s always seemed pretty obvious to me and it’s a big reason why the Rudy deal was so dumb. The Ant-centric offense you described can flourish with KAT at center, but not with Rudy at center and KAT at PF.

If I understand Q right, the end of his post there doubts whether or not an offense featuring Ant and shooters, screeners, and cutters who space the floor could actually win in the playoffs, and I suspect that would be because of how bad our D would likely be. KAT could play the 5 on a team like that, and basically did before the Rudy trade. The Rudy deal looked terrible last year, and it might end up staying that way (though it looks better this year). But I bet the reason Connelly did it was because he doubted that team built around Ant with KAT at center could really be a contender. We'll never know now, but as much as the Rudy deal may look bad because of the picks and the contract and floor spacing, I can theoretically see how a team with Rudy may be better poised to make a deep playoff run even though he can't space the floor. Our defense really is better with him. Alternately, you'd need to have a stellar defensive big who can also stretch the floor well. Not many of those guys out there.

Anyway, great win tonight! Gotta keep that sort of thing up.

Let’s see. Last season’s NBA champion did not have a great defensive center. The Warriors won their championships without a great defensive center. The Bulls won six championships without a great defensive center. A team built around Ant as described by Q would be similar to the teams built around MJ. A team built around Ant and KAT would be in the same realm as the Denver team build around Jokic and Murray. We’ve never had an NBA champion with two starting centers and that includes the many decades when the League played big and slow with rules that favored defense and without much focus on three-point shooting.

The good news is that the Wolves are playing terrific defense. But that’s been an entire team effort that is attributable as much to the perimeter defenders as it is to our bigs. KAT’s defense has also been really good. The team has been defending well with Rudy on and off the court, although they are certainly better defensively when he’s on the court. I like the way the team is playing and I like what we’re seeing so far from Rudy.

This team might turn out to be really good this season, but I still see the Rudy-KAT-Ant mix as suboptimal. And that’s before considering Rudy’s contract or what the Wolves gave up to get him. That’s just my view and it’s a view widely shared by NBA observers who know a lot more about NBA basketball than I do. However, I’ve really enjoyed watching this team for 7 of the 10 halves they’ve played so far this season. And their defensive has been outstanding for 9 of those halves. Moreover, I’ve enjoyed watching Rudy play. He seems to have regained his defensive mojo and he’s playing with great energy and swagger. If we end up in the NBA finals or even the Conference finals this season then I’ll be fine with sub-optimal.

I'd like to hear what Draymond would have to say about the Warriors not winning with a great defensive center!

I'm not saying we need a great defensive center, or that the Rudy-KAT-Ant mix is optimal or that the trade was good value (I don't think it was). I'm just saying I think Connelly may have concluded that we wouldn't have a defense good enough to sustain a long playoff run with KAT playing center. We were pretty decent that year before Rudy when we we played that scrambling defense, but I can understand why that might not have been able to last through those grinding playoff games. It clearly cost us on the boards against Memphis. I'd really be curious to hear what Finch's input was about the Rudy trade after that year.

I see from Q's comment that he meant the offense though could be a problem if you just built around Ant, and I see what he means about having an offense that is too one-dimensional as a problem. I do think with KAT and Ant we have a lot of offensive talent that can play in a couple different ways with Ant's driving and pull-up game, and KAT's perimeter game and ability to score elsewhere too. But one thing you can say about this team right now is that theoretically, we could play a few different ways offensively with Rudy and Conley and actually, with SloMo operating as a point forward. That's important in the playoffs because when teams have multiple chances to focus in on stopping a team offensively, they usually get pretty good at it UNLESS that team can really mix it up.

I'd add this about the idea of building a team of Ant and a bunch of floor spacers--as great as Ant is, I don't yet trust his decision-making in the way that I'd trust building a team around putting the ball almost completely into the hands of guys like Luka, Jokic, Curry, or LeBron, and even those guys kind of need to have other guys who can initiate the offense as well as well as a sound defense (if they want to win in the playoffs). On defense, some of those guys have needed a good defensive center, even when they couldn't stretch the floor. Other times, they used a center without range as an interior threat as part of their offense--Harden had Clint Capela and and Trey has him now (though he's a shell of himself). Luka and Porzingis was a problem defensively for Dallas (although man, I bet they wish they had Porzingis now). So even heliocentric teams need more than floor spacing. And honestly, Ant's handles and passing are also not yet at that the "give this guy the keys and get the f&^% out of the way" level, IMO. Offensively, he's a scoring machine who has shown growth and has real potential as a facilitator. And of course defensively, he can be brilliant for stretches (and then absentminded for others). But I totally get Q's argument that a heliocentric offense built around Ant (or, really, most players) could be too one-dimensional to be a real playoff contender.

It would definitely be nice to NOT be paying a center who can't stretch the floor a bazillion dollars a year and have more floor spacing to facilitate Ant's driving. That floor spacing would be nice for any team with a player who can drive the ball to the rack. But I suspect Connelly concluded that our defensive problems were bigger than the limitations of having a traditional, non-spacing center on Ant's ability to drive. We'll see how that plays out. So far, we're looking ok this year. On offense, I do like that we've got guys like Conley and SloMo who can initiate the offense as well and let Ant play off the ball at times.

Nobody's saying this, so I'm not disagreeing with anybody, but I'm just saying I agree with Q that I don't think we should be building an overly Ant-centric offense and that he shouldn't be trying to be the next Luka or Harden, as great as he is. And I'm not disagreeing with you, Lip on the Rudy trade, and I definitely like how you are enjoying him this year. It's not always easy to do that when you disagree with trading for a guy, and it's a sign of a mature fan. Trading for Rudy wasn't necessarily the only alternative (theoretically, if there were a cheaper version of Draymond out there to put next to KAT for defense and we could have signed a big, cheap beast to throw out there against Embiid and Jokic, we could have spent that money and trade capital elsewhere); it was a lopsided trade and his contract makes me gag. But I can understand the logic. And really, I don't think there is a perfect big to put next to KAT out there who can both defend well and stretch the floor. Maybe prime Horford or Draymond in that year when he could shoot? Brook Lopez? I don't know. Besides, I think it's not just about the Rudy trade, but also about the Conley trade and signing SloMo. Though their contracts are much smaller, I think those moves are similarly important in building what Connelly is aiming for here. Hopefully, that will give us better defense (and rebounding), more poise, and a more flexible offense in a way that won't limit Ant too much. We'll find out. In the meantime, I mostly like what I've seen so far this year.

[FNG]

I'm not totally excusing the second half collapse in Atlanta, but it does look like the Hawks might be pretty good...4 wins in a row including one on the Bucks home court.

So, three consecutive games in which we have held 20+ point leads, 2 of them against teams with winning records. I think you have to be a pretty good team to do that three games in a row. Let's see what they can do Monday against a Celtics team that is clearly the best in the league through the first two weeks of the season.

[Q-is-here]

I'm not totally excusing the second half collapse in Atlanta, but it does look like the Hawks might be pretty good...4 wins in a row including one on the Bucks home court.

So, three consecutive games in which we have held 20+ point leads, 2 of them against teams with winning records. I think you have to be a pretty good team to do that three games in a row. Let's see what they can do Monday against a Celtics team that is clearly the best in the league through the first two weeks of the season.

Love the fact we have these early tests against two of the clear cut Finals favorites in Denver and Boston. The Denver win was great, but not totally shocking given how we tend to match up with them so well. Boston is a different beast entirely, so anxious to see if we can hang with them.