Re: Jazz at Wolves GDT
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2023 9:36 pm
First game I’ve fully missed this year due to a wedding. I’m a block away from target center. Are the pups good???? Defense seems elite
Wolves fan commiserate here!
https://forum.midwestvolleyball.com/phpBB3/
https://forum.midwestvolleyball.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=31126
If I understand Q right, the end of his post there doubts whether or not an offense featuring Ant and shooters, screeners, and cutters who space the floor could actually win in the playoffs, and I suspect that would be because of how bad our D would likely be. KAT could play the 5 on a team like that, and basically did before the Rudy trade. The Rudy deal looked terrible last year, and it might end up staying that way (though it looks better this year). But I bet the reason Connelly did it was because he doubted that team built around Ant with KAT at center could really be a contender. We'll never know now, but as much as the Rudy deal may look bad because of the picks and the contract and floor spacing, I can theoretically see how a team with Rudy may be better poised to make a deep playoff run even though he can't space the floor. Our defense really is better with him. Alternately, you'd need to have a stellar defensive big who can also stretch the floor well. Not many of those guys out there.Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 9:19 pmI’ve thought that for a long time. It’s always seemed pretty obvious to me and it’s a big reason why the Rudy deal was so dumb. The Ant-centric offense you described can flourish with KAT at center, but not with Rudy at center and KAT at PF.Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 9:12 pm I honestly think we could design an offense around Ant where everyone else is just good at shooting, screening, cutting, and staying out of the lane. Space and pace with Ant carrying a 36% usage. But since we have KAT and Rudy, that won't happen for now. Not sure it's a great playoff offense either.
It was close until mid-way through the 3rd quarter and then the Wolves blew it open. Such a relief to see them put away a team they are better than on paper - something we didn't do enough of last year.
It's not just the D Drew, but offensively, teams with a super high-usage heliocentric player tend to stall out eventually. Think of those Houston teams with Harden and Dallas with Doncic. A playoff defense can eventually solve for a team that relies heavily on one guy too much.SameOldNudityDrew wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 9:39 pmIf I understand Q right, the end of his post there doubts whether or not an offense featuring Ant and shooters, screeners, and cutters who space the floor could actually win in the playoffs, and I suspect that would be because of how bad our D would likely be. KAT could play the 5 on a team like that, and basically did before the Rudy trade. The Rudy deal looked terrible last year, and it might end up staying that way (though it looks better this year). But I bet the reason Connelly did it was because he doubted that team built around Ant with KAT at center could really be a contender. We'll never know now, but as much as the Rudy deal may look bad because of the picks and the contract and floor spacing, I can theoretically see how a team with Rudy may be better poised to make a deep playoff run even though he can't space the floor. Our defense really is better with him. Alternately, you'd need to have a stellar defensive big who can also stretch the floor well. Not many of those guys out there.Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 9:19 pmI’ve thought that for a long time. It’s always seemed pretty obvious to me and it’s a big reason why the Rudy deal was so dumb. The Ant-centric offense you described can flourish with KAT at center, but not with Rudy at center and KAT at PF.Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 9:12 pm I honestly think we could design an offense around Ant where everyone else is just good at shooting, screening, cutting, and staying out of the lane. Space and pace with Ant carrying a 36% usage. But since we have KAT and Rudy, that won't happen for now. Not sure it's a great playoff offense either.
Anyway, great win tonight! Gotta keep that sort of thing up.
Let’s see. Last season’s NBA champion did not have a great defensive center. The Warriors won their championships without a great defensive center. The Bulls won six championships without a great defensive center. A team built around Ant as described by Q would be similar to the teams built around MJ. A team built around Ant and KAT would be in the same realm as the Denver team build around Jokic and Murray. We’ve never had an NBA champion with two starting centers and that includes the many decades when the League played big and slow with rules that favored defense and without much focus on three-point shooting.SameOldNudityDrew wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 9:39 pmIf I understand Q right, the end of his post there doubts whether or not an offense featuring Ant and shooters, screeners, and cutters who space the floor could actually win in the playoffs, and I suspect that would be because of how bad our D would likely be. KAT could play the 5 on a team like that, and basically did before the Rudy trade. The Rudy deal looked terrible last year, and it might end up staying that way (though it looks better this year). But I bet the reason Connelly did it was because he doubted that team built around Ant with KAT at center could really be a contender. We'll never know now, but as much as the Rudy deal may look bad because of the picks and the contract and floor spacing, I can theoretically see how a team with Rudy may be better poised to make a deep playoff run even though he can't space the floor. Our defense really is better with him. Alternately, you'd need to have a stellar defensive big who can also stretch the floor well. Not many of those guys out there.Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 9:19 pmI’ve thought that for a long time. It’s always seemed pretty obvious to me and it’s a big reason why the Rudy deal was so dumb. The Ant-centric offense you described can flourish with KAT at center, but not with Rudy at center and KAT at PF.Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 9:12 pm I honestly think we could design an offense around Ant where everyone else is just good at shooting, screening, cutting, and staying out of the lane. Space and pace with Ant carrying a 36% usage. But since we have KAT and Rudy, that won't happen for now. Not sure it's a great playoff offense either.
Anyway, great win tonight! Gotta keep that sort of thing up.
You’re right that there might be a second more Ant-centric window in the cards for this team down the road. I still see KAT as a really good fit with Ant because of KAT’s offensive versatility. Those two clicked really well two seasons ago. And I like having a big like KAT who can get you a bucket when you need on either inside or from behind the arc. KAT’s also a good passer. He’s Jokic light but use of the word “light” reflects the greatness of Jokic more than a slight to KAT. Naz Reid is probably the best among our bigs on an Ant-centric team. Naz pairs well with either KAT or Rudy.Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 10:37 pm I hear you Lip....the offense has been a struggle session during the 1+ year experiment, while the defense has been good.
I can see a second window that is Ant-centric and both Rudy AND KAT are gone. It could be Reid at PF, Jaden at SF, Ant at PG and then someone we can't predict at C and PG. I'm talking 2, 3, or 4 years from now. You still may need a defensive Center in that mix to start halves, but not at Rudy's price. Get a 3&D point guard and now you may have an interesting mix, where Ant is high usage, but gets some decent help from Reid and McDaniels.
I'd like to hear what Draymond would have to say about the Warriors not winning with a great defensive center!Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 10:31 pmLet’s see. Last season’s NBA champion did not have a great defensive center. The Warriors won their championships without a great defensive center. The Bulls won six championships without a great defensive center. A team built around Ant as described by Q would be similar to the teams built around MJ. A team built around Ant and KAT would be in the same realm as the Denver team build around Jokic and Murray. We’ve never had an NBA champion with two starting centers and that includes the many decades when the League played big and slow with rules that favored defense and without much focus on three-point shooting.SameOldNudityDrew wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 9:39 pmIf I understand Q right, the end of his post there doubts whether or not an offense featuring Ant and shooters, screeners, and cutters who space the floor could actually win in the playoffs, and I suspect that would be because of how bad our D would likely be. KAT could play the 5 on a team like that, and basically did before the Rudy trade. The Rudy deal looked terrible last year, and it might end up staying that way (though it looks better this year). But I bet the reason Connelly did it was because he doubted that team built around Ant with KAT at center could really be a contender. We'll never know now, but as much as the Rudy deal may look bad because of the picks and the contract and floor spacing, I can theoretically see how a team with Rudy may be better poised to make a deep playoff run even though he can't space the floor. Our defense really is better with him. Alternately, you'd need to have a stellar defensive big who can also stretch the floor well. Not many of those guys out there.
Anyway, great win tonight! Gotta keep that sort of thing up.
The good news is that the Wolves are playing terrific defense. But that’s been an entire team effort that is attributable as much to the perimeter defenders as it is to our bigs. KAT’s defense has also been really good. The team has been defending well with Rudy on and off the court, although they are certainly better defensively when he’s on the court. I like the way the team is playing and I like what we’re seeing so far from Rudy.
This team might turn out to be really good this season, but I still see the Rudy-KAT-Ant mix as suboptimal. And that’s before considering Rudy’s contract or what the Wolves gave up to get him. That’s just my view and it’s a view widely shared by NBA observers who know a lot more about NBA basketball than I do. However, I’ve really enjoyed watching this team for 7 of the 10 halves they’ve played so far this season. And their defensive has been outstanding for 9 of those halves. Moreover, I’ve enjoyed watching Rudy play. He seems to have regained his defensive mojo and he’s playing with great energy and swagger. If we end up in the NBA finals or even the Conference finals this season then I’ll be fine with sub-optimal.![]()
Love the fact we have these early tests against two of the clear cut Finals favorites in Denver and Boston. The Denver win was great, but not totally shocking given how we tend to match up with them so well. Boston is a different beast entirely, so anxious to see if we can hang with them.FNG wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 3:46 am I'm not totally excusing the second half collapse in Atlanta, but it does look like the Hawks might be pretty good...4 wins in a row including one on the Bucks home court.
So, three consecutive games in which we have held 20+ point leads, 2 of them against teams with winning records. I think you have to be a pretty good team to do that three games in a row. Let's see what they can do Monday against a Celtics team that is clearly the best in the league through the first two weeks of the season.