2024 Wolves Draft thread

[rapsuperstar31]

Here’s an excerpt from the Ringer draft analysis on Collier:

Unproven shooter with shaky mechanics who sprays misses from all over the court. He has questionable touch from all ranges, including the free throw line. Without improvement at the next level, defenses will dare him to shoot, clogging driving lanes.

Average athlete at a highly athletic position without much above-the-rim finishing ability or length on defense. This is particularly problematic for him defensively when he’s not putting in full effort, which has happened far too often this season during a roller-coaster freshman year at USC.

I’ll add some troubling stats to that analysis: 67% free throw percentage, 33% on three-pointers, and 3.3 turnovers per game. I think he’ll be available at 27 and there’s good reason for that. I actually think there’s a decent chance he’ll be available at 37. An average athlete who shoots 67% from the free throw line isn’t a player to gamble on, especially when you have a limited number of picks over the next few years. If he were a great explosive athlete or had extraordinary length I might be more inclined to gamble on him for upside. But I don’t see nearly enough upside to offset his glaring flaws and bust potential.

You might be right on Collier, I didn't watch and USC games this year just the youtube videos that can make anyone look like stars. I will say I'm not as worried about his shooting, Ant shot 29.4% from 3 and 40.2% from the field in college on 2.7 turnovers, Collier shot 33.8% from 3 and 49% from the field. The free throw percentage is a bit concerning. A lot of annalists say he has good vision passing the ball but had very poor spacing in college with his teamates. In the NBA where he will have more space to operate next to Ant and a good mentor in Conley to rub off on him.


Isaiah Collier | 6-3 guard | 19 years old | USC
Eastern Conference scout: I think the guy that’s going to be (Tyrese) Maxey, this year’s Cam Whitmore, this year, is Isaiah Collier. I’m betting on what I saw before he went to USC. He just can’t go to a dysfunctional team. It’s like Whitmore. If he goes to a team where there’s guys that are ahead of him, and he has to work his way into it, and he’s not in a dysfunctional program, I think he’s got a chance to be pretty darn good. Especially if he falls like Cam and Maxey (did) to the 20s, or the late teens. Like Whitmore (at Villanova), their team didn’t do well, and there’s not a touchy-feely love story to them. Isaiah’s obviously got a few issues here and there. We all make excuses for the guys we like, and we do the opposite as well. It’s easy to dismiss those guys because of their persona.
Eastern Conference executive No. 1: Football body that he can bully people with. I think Collier is a lot better than he showed this season. His decision making has to improve, because he was throwing some passes he shouldn’t have thrown, getting into the lane, making decisions. He got hurt, also, so that hindered him a little bit. He struggled early because he couldn’t shoot the ball well. You also had Boogie Ellis on that team, who was trying to get his.
Western Conference scout No. 1: If he was at pick 20 or something, he would get my interest a little bit. He gets on the rim. He gets to the basket. Is he a great shooter? No, he’s not. If he was a great shooter, we’d be talking about him in the top five. But he’s talented, and he’s 19. Don’t ask me all these inane, stupid questions. He’s talented. They’ll figure it out. Don’t give me these bums that can’t play. That’s what this is about.

See, in this Rudy Gobert championship window, I don't see it making any sense taking a chance on a guy like Collier. If we were still building, sure i could get on board. We need NBA rotational production on day 1, and you can find players late in the first round every year who can give you that. TC just needs to identify and go after the guy he wants.

I think day one he can break down the defense and get to the rim and either score or kick out to the open 3pt shooter. We need players besides Ant that can break down the defense.

[WildWolf2813]

Q and Lip- the question I keep wrestling with as to why our young guys don't get meaningful minutes is this:

a) is Finchie the kind of coach who just doesn't trust young players, or
b) are they simply not NBA players that can be counted on?

The answer is somewhere in the middle I think, but I lean pretty far toward the "not good enough" side. Many fans cried out for more minutes for the M trio, but I trust that Finchie has a much better assessment of who they are than we do. He has seen them countless hours in practice and on video, and he clearly has concluded they aren't ready to contribute. And my sense is that he believes they will never be ready...otherwise, I think they would have seen the court more often than just the final 30 seconds of blowouts. (And I get that we were in a close race, but there were many games in which we either led or trailed by an insurmountable score with 5 minutes left. I think we would have seen the M boys more in these moments if Finchie hadn't already made up his mind).

So I don't see any of these guys ever suddenly showing enough that they capture Finchie's favor. They're all far behind JMac in Finchie's mind, and that buries them deep in the bench. Q has put together a nice analysis of what a post SloMo rotation might look like, and I don't think we need much if any help from either a draft pick or our young M boys as long as Finchie is willing to use Morris and JMac...which he has shown he is during the regular season. Conley is really a 1-2, so he gives us even more rotation flexibility if Morris and/or JMac get minutes.

Nice analysis, FNG. I agree that Finch hasn’t played our young guys because they’re simply not good enough. I’ve been assuming that JMac won’t return, but your assessment might be more accurate — i.e., letting Slo Mo go and relying more on Morris and JMac.

Then that's a big Connelly problem, one bad enough to question why he's here.

[WildWolf2813]

Here’s an excerpt from the Ringer draft analysis on Collier:

Unproven shooter with shaky mechanics who sprays misses from all over the court. He has questionable touch from all ranges, including the free throw line. Without improvement at the next level, defenses will dare him to shoot, clogging driving lanes.

Average athlete at a highly athletic position without much above-the-rim finishing ability or length on defense. This is particularly problematic for him defensively when he’s not putting in full effort, which has happened far too often this season during a roller-coaster freshman year at USC.

I’ll add some troubling stats to that analysis: 67% free throw percentage, 33% on three-pointers, and 3.3 turnovers per game. I think he’ll be available at 27 and there’s good reason for that. I actually think there’s a decent chance he’ll be available at 37. An average athlete who shoots 67% from the free throw line isn’t a player to gamble on, especially when you have a limited number of picks over the next few years. If he were a great explosive athlete or had extraordinary length I might be more inclined to gamble on him for upside. But I don’t see nearly enough upside to offset his glaring flaws and bust potential.

You might be right on Collier, I didn't watch and USC games this year just the youtube videos that can make anyone look like stars. I will say I'm not as worried about his shooting, Ant shot 29.4% from 3 and 40.2% from the field in college on 2.7 turnovers, Collier shot 33.8% from 3 and 49% from the field. The free throw percentage is a bit concerning. A lot of annalists say he has good vision passing the ball but had very poor spacing in college with his teamates. In the NBA where he will have more space to operate next to Ant and a good mentor in Conley to rub off on him.


Isaiah Collier | 6-3 guard | 19 years old | USC
Eastern Conference scout: I think the guy that’s going to be (Tyrese) Maxey, this year’s Cam Whitmore, this year, is Isaiah Collier. I’m betting on what I saw before he went to USC. He just can’t go to a dysfunctional team. It’s like Whitmore. If he goes to a team where there’s guys that are ahead of him, and he has to work his way into it, and he’s not in a dysfunctional program, I think he’s got a chance to be pretty darn good. Especially if he falls like Cam and Maxey (did) to the 20s, or the late teens. Like Whitmore (at Villanova), their team didn’t do well, and there’s not a touchy-feely love story to them. Isaiah’s obviously got a few issues here and there. We all make excuses for the guys we like, and we do the opposite as well. It’s easy to dismiss those guys because of their persona.
Eastern Conference executive No. 1: Football body that he can bully people with. I think Collier is a lot better than he showed this season. His decision making has to improve, because he was throwing some passes he shouldn’t have thrown, getting into the lane, making decisions. He got hurt, also, so that hindered him a little bit. He struggled early because he couldn’t shoot the ball well. You also had Boogie Ellis on that team, who was trying to get his.
Western Conference scout No. 1: If he was at pick 20 or something, he would get my interest a little bit. He gets on the rim. He gets to the basket. Is he a great shooter? No, he’s not. If he was a great shooter, we’d be talking about him in the top five. But he’s talented, and he’s 19. Don’t ask me all these inane, stupid questions. He’s talented. They’ll figure it out. Don’t give me these bums that can’t play. That’s what this is about.

See, in this Rudy Gobert championship window, I don't see it making any sense taking a chance on a guy like Collier. If we were still building, sure i could get on board. We need NBA rotational production on day 1, and you can find players late in the first round every year who can give you that. TC just needs to identify and go after the guy he wants.

Always one eye on today and one eye on tomorrow.

Yes, we need plug and play guys. We also need guys who we can envision being here for a long time, regardless of whether Gobert is around for it. This franchise won't have the means to go out a get really promising young talent. Can we find someone to help us today? Sure. Would it be very beneficial to have someone who can eventually succeed Mike Conley? Absolutely, because at a certain point, they'll run out of options and just pretend Ant can be our Luka Doncic and he's not.

[FNG]

Great thread guys...best draft thread I've seen in this forum. In other years it seemed like one or two posters would get focused on just one guy, and the thread would turn into a sales pitch for that guy (and often that guy turned out to be a disaster!). This year's thread is much more balanced and informational, and I appreciate that having not watched that much college basketball this season.

I continue to promote not drafting a PG (unless somehow we could move way up and get Reed Shephard, and I don't think that is feasible). Conley is getting old, but I still think we are as set at PG as any team with two competent game manager type guys behind him. Plus, I don't think you'll find "the PG of the future" late in the first round). Some of the names I've seen in mocks going to the Wolves don't seem like an upgrade over the two backups we have now. Kolek for instance had a nice senior year at Marquette, but looks like JMac with a shorter wingspan to me.

So I guess you guys have convinced me that Scheierman is the guy at 27 if he's still there. Sure he's older than most in the draft, but he's a guy that could easily be a rotation player in his rookie year. Great shooter, rebounder and facilitator, and although he doesn't project to be a terrific on-ball defender, he reportedly is an excellent team defender. He would be my choice.

If we bring everyone back, I don't know that we have room for anyone we pick at 37. I'd be looking to trade it for a pick in a future year, or maybe look for a European with some upside that we can stash.

[60WinTim]

Even if we do draft a player at #37, I bet he starts out on a two-way contract...

[Wolvesfan21]

You might be right on Collier, I didn't watch and USC games this year just the youtube videos that can make anyone look like stars. I will say I'm not as worried about his shooting, Ant shot 29.4% from 3 and 40.2% from the field in college on 2.7 turnovers, Collier shot 33.8% from 3 and 49% from the field. The free throw percentage is a bit concerning. A lot of annalists say he has good vision passing the ball but had very poor spacing in college with his teamates. In the NBA where he will have more space to operate next to Ant and a good mentor in Conley to rub off on him.


Isaiah Collier | 6-3 guard | 19 years old | USC
Eastern Conference scout: I think the guy that’s going to be (Tyrese) Maxey, this year’s Cam Whitmore, this year, is Isaiah Collier. I’m betting on what I saw before he went to USC. He just can’t go to a dysfunctional team. It’s like Whitmore. If he goes to a team where there’s guys that are ahead of him, and he has to work his way into it, and he’s not in a dysfunctional program, I think he’s got a chance to be pretty darn good. Especially if he falls like Cam and Maxey (did) to the 20s, or the late teens. Like Whitmore (at Villanova), their team didn’t do well, and there’s not a touchy-feely love story to them. Isaiah’s obviously got a few issues here and there. We all make excuses for the guys we like, and we do the opposite as well. It’s easy to dismiss those guys because of their persona.
Eastern Conference executive No. 1: Football body that he can bully people with. I think Collier is a lot better than he showed this season. His decision making has to improve, because he was throwing some passes he shouldn’t have thrown, getting into the lane, making decisions. He got hurt, also, so that hindered him a little bit. He struggled early because he couldn’t shoot the ball well. You also had Boogie Ellis on that team, who was trying to get his.
Western Conference scout No. 1: If he was at pick 20 or something, he would get my interest a little bit. He gets on the rim. He gets to the basket. Is he a great shooter? No, he’s not. If he was a great shooter, we’d be talking about him in the top five. But he’s talented, and he’s 19. Don’t ask me all these inane, stupid questions. He’s talented. They’ll figure it out. Don’t give me these bums that can’t play. That’s what this is about.

See, in this Rudy Gobert championship window, I don't see it making any sense taking a chance on a guy like Collier. If we were still building, sure i could get on board. We need NBA rotational production on day 1, and you can find players late in the first round every year who can give you that. TC just needs to identify and go after the guy he wants.

Always one eye on today and one eye on tomorrow.

Yes, we need plug and play guys. We also need guys who we can envision being here for a long time, regardless of whether Gobert is around for it. This franchise won't have the means to go out a get really promising young talent. Can we find someone to help us today? Sure. Would it be very beneficial to have someone who can eventually succeed Mike Conley? Absolutely, because at a certain point, they'll run out of options and just pretend Ant can be our Luka Doncic and he's not.

The issue is still the playmaking with Ant (compared to Luka, prime LeBron, etc...). I really don't think he'll ever come close to their skillful passing and playmaking. Though he took a nice step this year. I doubt for instance he can avg 10 assists PG over a season and still get his 25+. I'd be super happy with 30/8/8 or so as a peak season. I think that is possible.

The other thing to remember is that Ant plays great defense. Luka rests WAY more on defense (is trash pretty much) so he can avg those 34/9/10 numbers. I think it's hard to simply have the energy and stamina to be that great on defense and the best on offense too. I've been watching LeBron for 7-8 years take naps on defense for instance. But he has been in his 30's / late 30's also.

Giannis maybe has been a guy who has taken a huge load on both sides. I can't think of many guys who are elite defenders and elite on offense also. Say top 10 in the NBA on both sides. Embiid maybe also, when he has been healthy. Jokic is not. Solid on defense, for sure not top 10.

[Q-is-here]

See, in this Rudy Gobert championship window, I don't see it making any sense taking a chance on a guy like Collier. If we were still building, sure i could get on board. We need NBA rotational production on day 1, and you can find players late in the first round every year who can give you that. TC just needs to identify and go after the guy he wants.

Always one eye on today and one eye on tomorrow.

Yes, we need plug and play guys. We also need guys who we can envision being here for a long time, regardless of whether Gobert is around for it. This franchise won't have the means to go out a get really promising young talent. Can we find someone to help us today? Sure. Would it be very beneficial to have someone who can eventually succeed Mike Conley? Absolutely, because at a certain point, they'll run out of options and just pretend Ant can be our Luka Doncic and he's not.

The issue is still the playmaking with Ant (compared to Luka, prime LeBron, etc...). I really don't think he'll ever come close to their skillful passing and playmaking. Though he took a nice step this year. I doubt for instance he can avg 10 assists PG over a season and still get his 25+. I'd be super happy with 30/8/8 or so as a peak season. I think that is possible.

The other thing to remember is that Ant plays great defense. Luka rests WAY more on defense (is trash pretty much) so he can avg those 34/9/10 numbers. I think it's hard to simply have the energy and stamina to be that great on defense and the best on offense too. I've been watching LeBron for 7-8 years take naps on defense for instance. But he has been in his 30's / late 30's also.

Giannis maybe has been a guy who has taken a huge load on both sides. I can't think of many guys who are elite defenders and elite on offense also. Say top 10 in the NBA on both sides. Embiid maybe also, when he has been healthy. Jokic is not. Solid on defense, for sure not top 10.

Kawhi Leonard over his last few years in San Antonio was probably pretty damn close to top 10 on both sides of the ball. You have to go back a ways to Jordan and Kobe to find two-way wings that were elite at both ends. Most guys today have to sacrifice a little on one end.

Back to Ant and our draft needs....there is definitely a case to be made that getting another dynamic lead guard type that can put pressure on the defense without having to be set-up would be very helpful and share the load with Ant. I'm just not sure there is anyone in this draft that can actually grow into that type of player which is why "settling" for a guy like Kolek may be more prudent.

[Lipoli390]

Great thread guys...best draft thread I've seen in this forum. In other years it seemed like one or two posters would get focused on just one guy, and the thread would turn into a sales pitch for that guy (and often that guy turned out to be a disaster!). This year's thread is much more balanced and informational, and I appreciate that having not watched that much college basketball this season.

I continue to promote not drafting a PG (unless somehow we could move way up and get Reed Shephard, and I don't think that is feasible). Conley is getting old, but I still think we are as set at PG as any team with two competent game manager type guys behind him. Plus, I don't think you'll find "the PG of the future" late in the first round). Some of the names I've seen in mocks going to the Wolves don't seem like an upgrade over the two backups we have now. Kolek for instance had a nice senior year at Marquette, but looks like JMac with a shorter wingspan to me.

So I guess you guys have convinced me that Scheierman is the guy at 27 if he's still there. Sure he's older than most in the draft, but he's a guy that could easily be a rotation player in his rookie year. Great shooter, rebounder and facilitator, and although he doesn't project to be a terrific on-ball defender, he reportedly is an excellent team defender. He would be my choice.

If we bring everyone back, I don't know that we have room for anyone we pick at 37. I'd be looking to trade it for a pick in a future year, or maybe look for a European with some upside that we can stash.

As I see it this team has three needs: (1) a knock-down 3-point shooter off the bench; (2) another player who can share some of Ant’s shot-creation responsibilities; and (3) a long term replacement for Conley who can also potentially back him up next season.

Reed Sheppard and Devin Carter are the two players who would fill all three needs, but both will be top 10 picks. I think we could trade up for either if we’re willing to package KAT with both our picks. I’d do it for either of those two because I think they could help next season and be stars down road, forming a phenomenal core all around the same age with Ant, Jaden and Naz

As I see it, Scheierman only fills one of our three needs - namely scoring/shooting off the bench. He’s not a PG obviously and I don’t see him as a shot creator, although I do see a little Luka in him when watching his highlights so who knows. And I love his rebounding. So I like him a lot. But Kolek looks like he offers what Scheierman provides while also potentially becoming a backup and future starting PG. He’s the best playmaker in the draft and seems to play bigger than he is averaging 5 rebounds per game. His position as a playmaking PG gives him the edge over Scheierman in my view. Carrington and Terrence Shannon excite me more than Scheierman or Kolek because of their athleticism and upside and I think either could help us off the bench by the second half of next season. But neither one has shown the ability yet to consistently hit from behind the college arc.

I think we’ll probably have to trade up at least a few slots to get Kolek or Scheierman and a few more slots to get Carrington or Terrence Shannon, especially the former. In my view, TC can’t let this draft pass without ending up with at least one of these four, which will probably mean packaging 27 and 37 at a minimum and perhaps including Moore, Minott or Miller. Ideally, Scheierman will fall to us at 27 and KJ Simpson will be available eat 37.

Again, if it were up to me, I’d trade KAT or Rudy in a bold move to get Reed or Devin, but TC’s not going to consider doing that. So I’m focusing in on Kolek, Scheierman, Carrington and Shannon while also being intrigued by KJ.

[Lipoli390]

Before concluding that Kolek, Simpson or Rob Dillingham is too small, take a look at the combine numbers for Mike Conley, Jalen Brunson and Trae Young.

Conley:
Height: 5’11
Weight: 175
Reach: 7’10.5
Wingspan: 6’5.75
Vertical: 35.5
Max Vertical: 40.5
Sprint: 3.09
Agility: 11.63

Brunson:
Height: 6’1
Weight: 198
Reach: 8’0
Wingspan: 6’4
Vertical: 29.0
Max Vertical: 37.0
Sprint: 3.15
Shuttle: 3.11
Agility: 10.59

Trae Young:
Height: 6’0.5
Weight: 177.8
Reach: 7’11.5
Wingspan: 6’3

KJ Simpson:
Height: 6’0.25
Weight: 187
Reach: 7’9.5
Wingspan: 6’4.5
Vertical: 32.5
Max Vertical: 40.5
Sprint: 3.24
Shuttle: 2.98
Agility: 10.49

Tyler Kolek
Height: 6’0.25
Weight: 187
Reach: 7’9.5
Wingspan: 6’4.5
Vertical: 32.5
Max Vertical: 40.5
Sprint: 3.24
Shuttle: 2.98
Agility: 10.49

[Coolbreeze44]

Great thread guys...best draft thread I've seen in this forum. In other years it seemed like one or two posters would get focused on just one guy, and the thread would turn into a sales pitch for that guy (and often that guy turned out to be a disaster!). This year's thread is much more balanced and informational, and I appreciate that having not watched that much college basketball this season.

I continue to promote not drafting a PG (unless somehow we could move way up and get Reed Shephard, and I don't think that is feasible). Conley is getting old, but I still think we are as set at PG as any team with two competent game manager type guys behind him. Plus, I don't think you'll find "the PG of the future" late in the first round). Some of the names I've seen in mocks going to the Wolves don't seem like an upgrade over the two backups we have now. Kolek for instance had a nice senior year at Marquette, but looks like JMac with a shorter wingspan to me.

So I guess you guys have convinced me that Scheierman is the guy at 27 if he's still there. Sure he's older than most in the draft, but he's a guy that could easily be a rotation player in his rookie year. Great shooter, rebounder and facilitator, and although he doesn't project to be a terrific on-ball defender, he reportedly is an excellent team defender. He would be my choice.

If we bring everyone back, I don't know that we have room for anyone we pick at 37. I'd be looking to trade it for a pick in a future year, or maybe look for a European with some upside that we can stash.

As I see it this team has three needs: (1) a knock-down 3-point shooter off the bench; (2) another player who can share some of Ant’s shot-creation responsibilities; and (3) a long term replacement for Conley who can also potentially back him up next season.

Reed Sheppard and Devin Carter are the two players who would fill all three needs, but both will be top 10 pick. I think we could trade up for either if we’re willing to package KAT with both our picks. I’d do it for either of those two because I think they could help next season and be stars down road forming phenomenal core with Ant, Jaden and Naz.

As I see it, Scheierman only fills one of our three needs - namely scoring/shooting off the bench. He’s not a PG obviously and I don’t see him as a shot creator, although I do see a little Luka in him when watching his highlights so who knows. And I love his rebounding. So I like him a lot. But Kolek looks like he offers what Scheierman provides while also potentially becoming a backup and future starting PG. He’s the best playmaker in the draft and seems to play bigger than he is averaging 5 rebounds per game. His position as a playmaking PG gives him the edge over Scheierman in my view. Carrington and Terrence Shannon excite me more than Scheierman or Kolek because of their athleticism and upside and I think either could help us off the bench by the second half of next season. But neither one has shown the ability yet to consistently hit from behind the college arc.

I think we’ll probably have to trade up at least a few slots to get Kolek or Scheierman and a few more slots to get Carrington or Terrence Shannon, especially the former. In my view, TC can’t let this draft pass without ending up with at least one of these four, which will probably mean packaging 27 and 37 at a minimum and perhaps including Moore, Minott or Miller. Ideally, Scheierman will fall to us at 27 and KJ Simpson will be available eat 37.

Again, if it were up to me, I’d trade KAT or Rudy in a bold move to get Reed or Devin, but TC’s not going to consider doing that. So I’m focusing in on Kolek, Scheierman, Carrington and Shannon while also being intrigued by KJ.

Lip, I think you're missing one thing on your list that could negate the need for your #3. That is maximizing our chances of winning the championship NEXT YEAR. I don't feel a long term replacement for Conley is a big need today. We are a contender and I want us to focus on making next years team as loaded as possible. We only have so many bullets in the chamber, we have to make the most of them. It's the same line of thinking I have on trading KAT or Rudy for a development guy. Why? This is not a good draft to begin with, you might be overthinking this.