Minnesota Sports Forum

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 3:51 pm Rudy's net On/Off number is a Ju Randle/NAZ Reid statistic

kekgeek wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 4:24 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 3:51 pm Rudy's net On/Off number is a Ju Randle/NAZ Reid statistic

I actually understand your points. I’m probably Rudy biggest defender and I think he has regressed. If we just talking about net (not On/Off), Rudy is still #1 on the team, unfortunately Mike is #2 (it stinks we are still so reliant on those 2).

It’s so hard to know if your point is correct or not (it might be) because in the Rudy era we have not had an average center. It’s either all nba caliber in Kat or not a natural 5 in Randle, Naz or Garza. At the moment your hypothesis is feelings based but that does not mean it’s incorrect.

Also who knows maybe we get a better Rudy if we get a better backup center because at the moment I don’t think Rudy is contesting shots due to Being worried about getting into foul trouble. (This might be me making excuses for Rudy)

FNG wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 4:52 pm

kekgeek wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 4:24 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 3:51 pm Rudy's net On/Off number is a Ju Randle/NAZ Reid statistic

I actually understand your points. I’m probably Rudy biggest defender and I think he has regressed. If we just talking about net (not On/Off), Rudy is still #1 on the team, unfortunately Mike is #2 (it stinks we are still so reliant on those 2).

It’s so hard to know if your point is correct or not (it might be) because in the Rudy era we have not had an average center. It’s either all nba caliber in Kat or not a natural 5 in Randle, Naz or Garza. At the moment your hypothesis is feelings based but that does not mean it’s incorrect.

Also who knows maybe we get a better Rudy if we get a better backup center because at the moment I don’t think Rudy is contesting shots due to Being worried about getting into foul trouble. (This might be me making excuses for Rudy)

Cool teed up this topic because he read someone on X describing Rudy as one of the worst basketball players in the Association. I wonder what criteria the X-er used to arrive at this conclusion, and I suspect it was mostly based on eye-test. Rudy can be difficult to watch! In terms of traditional basketball offensive skills (shooting, dribbling, catching) I would agree that Rudy would rank near the bottom...he's never going to be in the skills competition on all-star weekend! But I value effectiveness more than skill level, and it's impossible to make a case that Rudy isn't effective. His defensive rating always ranks with the best, and his offensive rating this season is right in the middle of the Wolves and the entire league. Of course it's not skill that earns him his solid numbers, it's mostly his size and how he uses it. It doesn't take much skill to screen as well as he does, or to dunk or get offensive rebounds. It's painful to watch him on offense at times, but because of his size, he actually can be a positive on offense.

Our real issue this season is how far our defense has dropped off. Can you believe that the only teams below us in defensive rating are the hapless Wizards, Pelicans and Nets?! Missing Ant for most of the season is part of the reason, but our defensive rating last night on his return was worse than any game last season. I'm wondering if TC had a do-over for the offseason if he wouldn't choose to go with NAW and a defensive backup center and let Naz go. Our perimeter defense has been a disaster, and we really miss NAW.

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 6:29 pm

FNG wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 4:52 pm

kekgeek wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 4:24 pm

I actually understand your points. I’m probably Rudy biggest defender and I think he has regressed. If we just talking about net (not On/Off), Rudy is still #1 on the team, unfortunately Mike is #2 (it stinks we are still so reliant on those 2).

It’s so hard to know if your point is correct or not (it might be) because in the Rudy era we have not had an average center. It’s either all nba caliber in Kat or not a natural 5 in Randle, Naz or Garza. At the moment your hypothesis is feelings based but that does not mean it’s incorrect.

Also who knows maybe we get a better Rudy if we get a better backup center because at the moment I don’t think Rudy is contesting shots due to Being worried about getting into foul trouble. (This might be me making excuses for Rudy)

Cool teed up this topic because he read someone on X describing Rudy as one of the worst basketball players in the Association. I wonder what criteria the X-er used to arrive at this conclusion, and I suspect it was mostly based on eye-test. Rudy can be difficult to watch! In terms of traditional basketball offensive skills (shooting, dribbling, catching) I would agree that Rudy would rank near the bottom...he's never going to be in the skills competition on all-star weekend! But I value effectiveness more than skill level, and it's impossible to make a case that Rudy isn't effective. His defensive rating always ranks with the best, and his offensive rating this season is right in the middle of the Wolves and the entire league. Of course it's not skill that earns him his solid numbers, it's mostly his size and how he uses it. It doesn't take much skill to screen as well as he does, or to dunk or get offensive rebounds. It's painful to watch him on offense at times, but because of his size, he actually can be a positive on offense.

Our real issue this season is how far our defense has dropped off. Can you believe that the only teams below us in defensive rating are the hapless Wizards, Pelicans and Nets?! Missing Ant for most of the season is part of the reason, but our defensive rating last night on his return was worse than any game last season. I'm wondering if TC had a do-over for the offseason if he wouldn't choose to go with NAW and a defensive backup center and let Naz go. Our perimeter defense has been a disaster, and we really miss NAW.

Net Ratings from NBA.com (Offensive points per 100 possessions while on the floor minus Defensive points allowed per 100 possessions):

Rudy +6.6
Jaylen +1.6
DDV +.2
Conley +.2
Jaden -.5
Julius -2.3
Bones -3.0
Naz -9.5
Ant -11.9
Dilly -15.9
Shannon -19.7

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 6:38 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 6:29 pm

FNG wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 4:52 pm

Cool teed up this topic because he read someone on X describing Rudy as one of the worst basketball players in the Association. I wonder what criteria the X-er used to arrive at this conclusion, and I suspect it was mostly based on eye-test. Rudy can be difficult to watch! In terms of traditional basketball offensive skills (shooting, dribbling, catching) I would agree that Rudy would rank near the bottom...he's never going to be in the skills competition on all-star weekend! But I value effectiveness more than skill level, and it's impossible to make a case that Rudy isn't effective. His defensive rating always ranks with the best, and his offensive rating this season is right in the middle of the Wolves and the entire league. Of course it's not skill that earns him his solid numbers, it's mostly his size and how he uses it. It doesn't take much skill to screen as well as he does, or to dunk or get offensive rebounds. It's painful to watch him on offense at times, but because of his size, he actually can be a positive on offense.

Our real issue this season is how far our defense has dropped off. Can you believe that the only teams below us in defensive rating are the hapless Wizards, Pelicans and Nets?! Missing Ant for most of the season is part of the reason, but our defensive rating last night on his return was worse than any game last season. I'm wondering if TC had a do-over for the offseason if he wouldn't choose to go with NAW and a defensive backup center and let Naz go. Our perimeter defense has been a disaster, and we really miss NAW.

Net Ratings from NBA.com (Offensive points per 100 possessions while on the floor minus Defensive points allowed per 100 possessions):

Rudy +6.6
Jaylen +1.6
DDV +.2
Conley +.2
Jaden -.5
Julius -2.3
Bones -3.0
Naz -9.5
Ant -11.9
Dilly -15.9
Shannon -19.7

So I guess Rudy is way better than Jaden, Julius, and Ant. Good to know.

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 7:11 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 6:38 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 6:29 pm

Net Ratings from NBA.com (Offensive points per 100 possessions while on the floor minus Defensive points allowed per 100 possessions):

Rudy +6.6
Jaylen +1.6
DDV +.2
Conley +.2
Jaden -.5
Julius -2.3
Bones -3.0
Naz -9.5
Ant -11.9
Dilly -15.9
Shannon -19.7

So I guess Rudy is way better than Jaden, Julius, and Ant. Good to know.

Yeah he is so far this year. I don't get the argument the other way. While he looks almost clumsy and has fumbling the ball issues too often, he simply does all the little things at elite levels. Screening, rebounding, footwork, positioning, contesting shots, etc.... He is simply elite at the do shit stuff which really makes him a winning player. I'd rather win then have a highlight reel player who doesn't win (Morant for example).

I guess I'm not surprised at the +/- stats, Thats what my eye said. I didn't look up the numbers BTW, I just figured Rudy was our most important player thus far and I was continuing to say Clark has to play every game. His defense is outstanding as well.

Still a small sample and I expect the others in the deep minus to turn things around in time, they got no where to go but up.

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 6:39 pm The rest of the team has to play with Ju and NAZ on the court at the same time. Rudy doesn't. Very noisy stat.

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 7:14 pm

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 7:11 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 6:38 pm

So I guess Rudy is way better than Jaden, Julius, and Ant. Good to know.

Yeah he is so far this year. I don't get the argument the other way. While he looks almost clumsy and has fumbling the ball issues too often, he simply does all the little things at elite levels. Screening, rebounding, footwork, positioning, contesting shots, etc.... He is simply elite at the do shit stuff which really makes him a winning player. I'd rather win then have a highlight reel player who doesn't win (Morant for example).

I guess I'm not surprised at the +/- stats, Thats what my eye said. I didn't look up the numbers BTW, I just figured Rudy was our most important player thus far and I was continuing to say Clark has to play every game. His defense is outstanding as well.

Still a small sample and I expect the others in the deep minus to turn things around in time, they got no where to go but up.

With all due respect, your comments are nonsensical. You don't know how to apply statistics. Every players numbers would be a lot better if we had a competent 2nd big. I shouldn't have to tell you this, but Rudy isn't one of our top 3 players.

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 7:33 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 7:14 pm

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 7:11 pm

Yeah he is so far this year. I don't get the argument the other way. While he looks almost clumsy and has fumbling the ball issues too often, he simply does all the little things at elite levels. Screening, rebounding, footwork, positioning, contesting shots, etc.... He is simply elite at the do shit stuff which really makes him a winning player. I'd rather win then have a highlight reel player who doesn't win (Morant for example).

I guess I'm not surprised at the +/- stats, Thats what my eye said. I didn't look up the numbers BTW, I just figured Rudy was our most important player thus far and I was continuing to say Clark has to play every game. His defense is outstanding as well.

Still a small sample and I expect the others in the deep minus to turn things around in time, they got no where to go but up.

With all due respect, your comments are nonsensical. You don't know how to apply statistics. Every players numbers would be a lot better if we had a competent 2nd big. I shouldn't have to tell you this, but Rudy isn't one of our top 3 players.

I get that, but shouldn't they simply out score the other team by tearing up the net? Small lineups are the rage the last ten years. Space and pace 5 out lineups. Shoot the 3 ball. You are allowed to be better then Rudy!

However, yes I agree, neither is a 5, neither can defend the rim or rebound well enough. Still Rudy is without question our most important player still. The stats are so lopsided it's not even close. Had they been close I might side with you, but it's simply not close. Your competent backup big also might really hurt their offense (Naz and Ju, etc..) too, two sides of the coin.

Is the paint now clogged with hypothetical backup 5 in there? It might not work well either. However at this point I'm not against trading for (backup 5) or playing even Joan. The defense in the non Rudy minutes has been so bad we need something to change. Either these guys start to step up or we must make a roster or player move.